Thinking of Switching from Pharm to PA

[zepp]

Hello everyone.  This is my first post but I've been looking around at all the threads and I wanted to pose a specific post to my issue.

 

Currently I'm in Pharmacy school and am about to enter into my 2nd year.  However, I'm a little older (39)  and in order to continue pharmacy school I would have to quit my job in an unrelated field and take on full loans to support myself.  After making all the calculations by the end of the 4 years I would be owing about 277k in student loans.  That is scaring the hell out of me along with the almost unending talk of saturation in the pharmacy field.  I know I do NOT want to work in retail and deal with customers.  One of the things that I liked most after my first year here was the hands on stuff, and learning how to take blood pressure, compounding, etc.  My initial intention was to work in a hospital but I just see that it is becoming really difficult to rely on that.  Initially as an undergrad I was deciding between PA and Pharmacy and went with pharmacy so now I'm looking back at PA because its only 2 years, less loans, and appears more interesting.

 

My grades aren't great and I struggled primarily due to a lack of time trying to work and go to school at the same time.  One primary thing I noticed is that my memory is not what it used to be.  I had a very hard time in the dynamics portion memorizing all the drugs, side effects, contraindications, etc.  From what I know they will only throw more information at me to memorize.  So naturally my confidence is a little shot that I can memorize and I definitely don't want to be a practicing pharmacist and do harm to someone because I forgot about a reaction to a drug.

 

That has me looking at PA as a possibility.  From what I've read the job outlook is fantastic (I live in South Florida) and the pay isn't like pharmacy but isn't bad either.  I like the aspect of being more hands on with taking care of patients.  However, I see that as being a difficult path.  I would need to add one undergraduate pre-req for some of the schools I've been looking at.  My under grad GPA isn't great 3.0 and my science is probably that or a little lower.  I did great on the PCAT and I'm confident I can do good at the GRE.  I have no shadowing experience with PA's and it looks like thats a must.  I did volunteer in a hospital pharmacy for over a year but I don't think I can use that.

 

So basically I'm facing having to start over with the volunteering, the LOR's, the GRE etc.  My science undergrad classes go back to 2008 so I'm worried about that time lapse and also my average GPA at 3.0.  Im an unconventional student (worked in government for 13+ years), a polisci major and obviously my run here in Pharmacy school.

 

My question is based on my background, and assuming I'm able to get shadowing opportunities and do well in the GRE, how realistic is it that I can get into a Pharmacy school here in South Florida with a GPA like the one I have and having to explain that I dropped out of Pharmacy school?

 

Also based on my limitations in Pharmacy (bad memory), how intensive and what is the PA curriculum like?  Is it also a lot of memorizing or more understanding physio and how the body works?  More hands on?

 

I have an image of PA being working in a doctors office or clinic and seeing patients, having a set schedule (not on call), and not having to worry about malpractice insurance.  How realistic is that?  

 

Also I see that FIU (Florida International University) has a PA program but they don't have a thread of their own here, aren't ranked and I don't think have had a graduating class yet.  Would that work in my favor in that they need students or is it not recommended to go to a program like that which has no history of graduating classes?

 

I appreciate any advice anyone can give.

 

Thanks

[JohnnyM2]

Hello everyone. This is my first post but I've been looking around at all the threads and I wanted to pose a specific post to my issue.

 

Currently I'm in Pharmacy school and am about to enter into my 2nd year. However, I'm a little older (39) and in order to continue pharmacy school I would have to quit my job in an unrelated field and take on full loans to support myself. After making all the calculations by the end of the 4 years I would be owing about 277k in student loans. DEPENDING ON THE SCHOOL YOU ATTEND YOU CAN RACK UP A TIDY SUM IN PA SCHOOL

That is scaring the hell out of me along with the almost unending talk of saturation in the pharmacy field. I know I do NOT want to work in retail and deal with customers. PAs DEAL WITH "CUSTOMERS" EVERYDAYDAY AND PATIENTS AREN'T ALWAYS GRATEFUL OR COMPLIANT.

One of the things that I liked most after my first year here was the hands on stuff, and learning how to take blood pressure, compounding, etc. My initial intention was to work in a hospital but I just see that it is becoming really difficult to rely on that. Initially as an undergrad I was deciding between PA and Pharmacy and went with pharmacy so now I'm looking back at PA because its only 2 years, less loans, and appears more interesting.

 

My grades aren't great and I struggled primarily due to a lack of time trying to work and go to school at the same time. One primary thing I noticed is that my memory is not what it used to be. THERE IS A LOT OF MEMORIZATION IN PA SCHOOL.

I had a very hard time in the dynamics portion memorizing all the drugs, side effects, contraindications, etc. From what I know they will only throw more information at me to memorize. PA SCHOOL WILL THROW A LOT AT YOU. IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR GREENER HAS YOU MAY BE DISAPPOINTED.

So naturally my confidence is a little shot that I can memorize and I definitely don't want to be a practicing pharmacist and do harm to someone because I forgot about a reaction to a drug.

 

That has me looking at PA as a possibility. From what I've read the job outlook is fantastic (I live in South Florida) and the pay isn't like pharmacy but isn't bad either. I like the aspect of being more hands on with taking care of patients. However, I see that as being a difficult path. I would need to add one undergraduate pre-req for some of the schools I've been looking at. My under grad GPA isn't great 3.0 and my science is probably that or a little lower. SOME SCHOOLS HAVE A 3.O CUT OFF ON GPA AND HIGHER ON SGPA.

I did great on the PCAT and I'm confident I can do good at the GRE. I have no shadowing experience with PA's and it looks like thats a must. I did volunteer in a hospital pharmacy for over a year but I don't think I can use that. RIGHT, BUT IT IS VOLUNTEER HOURS.

 

So basically I'm facing having to start over with the volunteering, the LOR's, the GRE etc. My science undergrad classes go back to 2008 so I'm worried about that time lapse and also my average GPA at 3.0. Im an unconventional student (worked in government for 13+ years), a polisci major and obviously my run here in Pharmacy school.

 

My question is based on my background, and assuming I'm able to get shadowing opportunities and do well in the GRE, how realistic is it that I can get into a Pharmacy school here in South Florida with a GPA like the one I have and having to explain that I dropped out of Pharmacy school? YOU MAY NEED A BETTER STORY THAN YOU HAVE OFFERED HERE

 

Also based on my limitations in Pharmacy (bad memory), how intensive and what is the PA curriculum like? Is it also a lot of memorizing or more understanding physio and how the body works? LOTS OF MEMORIZING. More hands on?

 

I have an image of PA being working in a doctors office or clinic and seeing patients, having a set schedule (not on call), (MANY PAS DO HAVE ON CALL DUTIES) and not having to worry about malpractice insurance. GENERALLY PAID BY EMPLOYER. How realistic is that?

 

Also I see that FIU (Florida International University) has a PA program but they don't have a thread of their own here, aren't ranked and I don't think have had a graduating class yet. Would that work in my favor in that they need students or is it not recommended to go to a program like that which has no history of graduating classes?

 

I appreciate any advice anyone can give.

 

Thanks

 

See notes in UPPER CASE.

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[Johnson2018pac]

 

1.) If you think there is less memorization in PA school than in pharmacy you are sadly mistaken

2.) Your idea of what a PA is and does is very narrow, thats why shadowing is almost always required for admission. Many if not most PAs work weekends, nights, take call, etc..

3.) Never heard anything about FIU but based on the info you have about it I would avoid it. You NEED to go to a reputable school that's known for having a good program...your career depends on it.

4.) It's very common knowledge on here that south Florida is among the lowest paying areas in the country...keep that in mind if you have no intention of leaving.

5.) Think long and hard before you leave pharmacy school to pursue this...

[MT2PA]

FIU is a new program, not necessarily bad. (And is reputable in the state for the other programs that they have). But that won't help you, they still have hundreds of good applicants that have better grades, extensive HCE, shadowing, LORs, etc.

 

Bottom line is you need to improve your grades, do some shadowing, and get a great deal of direct patient care experience (you didn't mention this at all and is one of the most important things). Do that and yes, you could have a shot. But not necessarily one better than any other applicant.

 

The previous poster is correct, though. You seem to underestimate the rigor of the PA didactic year and do have a narrow view of the scope of a PA. As someone formerly from FL, I didn't think the market for PAs was really that great there. Healthcare in general is underpaid in the state.

[Glorious_Ignoramus]

- Could you get in?  Probably.

 

- PA school is just as expensive as every other professional medical program out there.  Expect somewhere around $80,000 additional in debt when done.

 

- If you are not adept at memorization, then you will not do well in PA school.  Or any medical profession.

 

- If you don't want to deal with customers...direct patient care may not be for you.

 

- The PA job market is saturating as well.  You can thank the arbitrary rankings of Forbes and US News for that.

 

- Are your loans federal?  Do you know about public service loan forgiveness and income-based repayment?

 

 

I don't think the reasons you have stated are adequate for quitting your program and going all the way back to undergrad pre-reqs and the admissions process.  You're not going to save any money, and you're going to put yourself 2-3 years behind entering the work force.  My inclination is to say that if you wanted to go to PA school, you would have went to PA school.  Forgive my being blunt.  I also don't think it reflects well on your professional commitment to have quit one program and switch to another for financial reasons and because you like taking vital signs.

 

Stick it out, don't run off when things get hard or financial pressures start mounting.  You knew all this was going to happen before you started pharm school.  You really should start looking into clinical or research internships now, and start considering the possibility of moving where the jobs are.  Same process that every other grad out there goes through.  You got this, now get off the forums and back to real life, you have an advanced degree out there waiting for you.

[PAGuy55]

Pharm is super saturated. Once I saw kids who barely put any effort into their grades (2.75 and below) GPA make it into Pharm school then I knew something was up. Too many for profit schools ruining the market. It wasn't where I wanted to be in patient care regardless. But that only made my decison easier.

[Convertable]

I don't think PA is saturated like pharmacy is.  It really is something entirely different.  

 

Not sure how rankings have to do with "PA saturation".  Isn't that more of a supply vs. demand situation?  So far, the supply appears to be keeping pace with the demand.  Sure, we'd all like for every applicant to have 10 openings, but that's just not the way the free market works, and patient outcomes would be adversely affected.  Doctors are dealing with so-called "midlevel encroachment" because they have artificially restricted supply.  (Granted, private schools tend to lower standards and artificially inflate supply.  See, eg., law schools and pharmacy schools.  Hasn't happened yet to PA schools, but beware the precedent.  It is always a worry.)

[PAGuy55]

From my understanding, there are more seats available for students applying for Pharm school than PA school. I think the ARC-PA has a much better control than the individuals who are in control of the Pharmacy schools. To add, some of the programs I am applying to are outrageous in terms of seat availability per # of applicants (Penn State, UF, etc).

[zepp]

- Could you get in?  Probably.

 

- PA school is just as expensive as every other professional medical program out there.  Expect somewhere around $80,000 additional in debt when done.

 

- If you are not adept at memorization, then you will not do well in PA school.  Or any medical profession.

 

- If you don't want to deal with customers...direct patient care may not be for you.

 

- The PA job market is saturating as well.  You can thank the arbitrary rankings of Forbes and US News for that.

 

- Are your loans federal?  Do you know about public service loan forgiveness and income-based repayment?

 

 

I don't think the reasons you have stated are adequate for quitting your program and going all the way back to undergrad pre-reqs and the admissions process.  You're not going to save any money, and you're going to put yourself 2-3 years behind entering the work force.  My inclination is to say that if you wanted to go to PA school, you would have went to PA school.  Forgive my being blunt.  I also don't think it reflects well on your professional commitment to have quit one program and switch to another for financial reasons and because you like taking vital signs.

 

Stick it out, don't run off when things get hard or financial pressures start mounting.  You knew all this was going to happen before you started pharm school.  You really should start looking into clinical or research internships now, and start considering the possibility of moving where the jobs are.  Same process that every other grad out there goes through.  You got this, now get off the forums and back to real life, you have an advanced degree out there waiting for you.

 

I love blunt, honest advice/opinions.  You and the other posters here have really given it to me good and I really appreciate that.  I am scratching PA off the list.  You do make some great points that I'm already in a program, the money I'd save in loans isn't a lot, and I'd have a lot of the same things in the PA program that I have doing Pharm.  

 

I think thats a great quote by you to "get off the forums and back to real life...theres a degree waiting for you."  I've been spending way too much time asking people what I should do when I just need to either go forward and do it or don't and thats the question now.  I did struggle my first year in pharm and I'm set back a bit.  As I mentioned before, I was working at the same time and I've reasoned that it caused me to have less time to study but regardless my confidence is shot, I have concerns about my memory which, as you said, I would need in any healthcare profession. So thats the question I have to answer...continue to do what I've done the last 13 years which I like but it doesn't pay many bills (politics work) or finish a program that I am in and risk falling on my face and to face the reality that maybe I just can't hack it.  I guess you don't win big if you don't risk big.

 

Anyway I really do appreciate everyone's post.  I compare it as the cyber version of a Vito Corleone slap in the face from the movie the Godfather while he yells "act like man."