Advice needed please!! GWU or others? does the school matter?

[arc5005]

I've really been torn between the PA route and the DO route for awhile now. I've kind of settled on PA being the better route for raising a family down the road in 5-10 years, especially if I want to be the one who focuses on the raising versus my partner.

 

I have a BS degree in Environmental Science from a good college. I'm currently taking pre-reqs at my community college.

 

Undergraduate GPA: 3.012

Cumulative GPA (w/ post-bac classes): 3.269

Science GPA: 3.395

BCP (Bio, Chem, Physics) GPA: 3.468

GRE: Have not taken yet. Planning to take this Jan 2015

 

Work Experience:

• CrossFit Instructor: 2 years, part-time
• Environmental Health & Safety: 5 month full-time paid internship
• Chemical Hygiene Assistant: 7 month full-time paid internship
• Healthcare/patient-care: N/A, zero experience

 

My ECs include:

CrossFit/Fitness Instructor: 2 years, member for over 3 years.

Breast cancer Awareness Fundraisers: 3 years now during the month of October

Volunteering for HIV/AIDS outreach: ~10 hours so far

 

In College:

Study Abroad Peer Mentor

LGBT Alliance group

 

 

Some other factors:

• I think I want to specialize in psychiatry or somewhere in pediatrics after I graduate from PA school.
• My Boyfriend lives in the DC area so GWU would obviously be my top choice; however, their standards look really high, and I'm not sure I am willing to wait for 1000-5000+ hours to apply and to get accepted. It looks like average hours of healthcare/work experience is over 4000 for GW's program. Other programs would be ideal to. I think I might move to DC soon and try to work at GWU hospital. Perhaps that would help?

So my questions are:

 

1. Does it matter which PA school I attend? Can I be competitive in a big city, like DC at a hospital connected to a university with a degree from a lesser known PA school?
2. Does psychiatry or peds require a residency or additional training?
3. Are there any schools that people may recommend? I'm worried I may not be competitive enough for GWU.
4. Ideas on the best way to get patient-care hours?

Thanks!

 

 

 

[tavenne323]

I'm in a similar situation.

 

Options 1: take the 16 prerequisites, about two years, required (because mine are too old) in order to apply for a brand new program that is starting in 2016 (I'd have to wait for 2017) in my hometown, where my family friends, and boyfriend live. And I'd probably have an easy time getting in since I already have a Masters from that school.

 

Or option 2: take 5-6 prerequisites, and be able to apply to UW Madison next summer for their distance learning option. Only 10 are accepted. Live in my hometown and work part time.

 

Option 3: apply to UW Madison for their on campus two year program and hope that boyfriend gets a decent job in Madison to help support me.

 

UW Madison has such a great medical reputation and because it's a state school it will be cheaper. However the local, more expensive, new program I have a place to live for free (thanks mom!). I've heard from many people that going to a brand new school is risky, though generally much easier to get into.

[zoopeda]

So my questions are:

 

1. Does it matter which PA school I attend? Can I be competitive in a big city, like DC at a hospital connected to a university with a degree from a lesser known PA school?
2. Does psychiatry or peds require a residency or additional training?
3. Are there any schools that people may recommend? I'm worried I may not be competitive enough for GWU.
4. Ideas on the best way to get patient-care hours?

Thanks!

 

1.  I've been told again and again, that the name of your school is mattering less and less.  The average salary for Duke or Iowa or GWU PA graduates is equivalent to that of just about any other less-famous school.  PAs are in such high demand.  I personally know a PA from Penn Tech making over 100k and another from Duke making a lot less than that.  That said, I think a lot of people get jobs through word of mouth, and if a big famous school has a long history and enormous network of alumni and practitioners, that might help you find your dream job more quickly than just hitting the open market.  Another consideration is quality of education and established clinical sites.  Most schools are able to acheive high PANCE rates (even newer schools), but setting up clinical sites takes time and attention.  Your odds of ending up in a mediocre rotation are going to be higher with a school that's only had a year to refine and adjust their sites.  Likewise, odds of an awesome experience are probably increased in programs that have had 20 or 30 years to establish a solid network of preceptors. 

 

2. Yes.  After 4 years of MD or DO school, you only have an academic degree (and not a license to practice medicine).  Peds and Psych residencies are 3 years.  Fellowships (becoming more and more common) are often a couple more years (ie, often still working at $45k a year, 70 hours a week).  Same is true of family med, internal med, derm, and surgical specialties have much longer residencies than that (typically 5-6 years).

 

3.  There are something like 187 schools out there.  The key is picking a region or other limiting factor, selecting several dozen that appeal to you initially, evaluating your strengths as an applicant, and narrowing down to 10 or 12 schools that seem to be looking for someone with your background.  School isn't competitive if you make yourself stand out--GWU or Tumbleweed University.  (Take it from a 3.24cGPA with multiple acceptances.  Believe it or not, I was offered interviews at my top ("most competitive") schools and completely ignored by what I thought of as "safety" schools.)  

 

4.  Just get something that makes you feel supercharged about medicine and that fits with your interests and skills.  Just get a job working with patients in any capacity, and have fun (and be serious) with it.  Do a great job, and LORs and PS content follow.  Patient care isn't a prereq.  It's a chance for you to try your hand at patient care--to make sure you LOVE it before you make the massive investment of grad school.  Just start working, and see where it takes you!

 

Good luck!

[Patho]

I live in the DC area and have found have found two PA programs within DC, GW which you mentioned and Howard University. There are also programs in Maryland: CCBC/Towson, Ann Arundel, and Eastern Shore.  HCE varies from school to school, so you will need to find out if your experiences up to this point counts. I've also notice that PA schools value community service and there are a lot of opportunities within DC for this type of work.

 

I volunteer at the NIH, something that you can consider; found community health clinics that allowed me to shadowed and get experience; and currently a health promoter for Montgomery county of Maryland (DC probably has something comparable). It is a a big city with lots of opportunities to work with an underserved population. You can also get certified for CNA, EMT, MA, etc.

 

As for your question about does it matter which PA school; I remember reading a post on this forum that went something like this: A PA is a PA, is a PA.

 

GOOD LUCK!

[PACdan]

I've really been torn between the PA route and the DO route for awhile now. I've kind of settled on PA being the better route for raising a family down the road in 5-10 years, especially if I want to be the one who focuses on the raising versus my partner.

 

Don't settle. Make sure you're taking the route YOU want to pursue. Minimize your doubt/regret now to maximize your happiness later.

 

 

So my questions are:

 

1. Does it matter which PA school I attend? Can I be competitive in a big city, like DC at a hospital connected to a university with a degree from a lesser known PA school?
2. Does psychiatry or peds require a residency or additional training?
3. Are there any schools that people may recommend? I'm worried I may not be competitive enough for GWU.
4. Ideas on the best way to get patient-care hours?

Thanks!

 

1. No. Any accredited program is good.

2. Not necessarily. But the job you want might.

3. If you're trying to stay close to the DC area for your significant other: Shenandoah University in Winchester (Loudoun satellite coming soon) and Mary Baldwin's new program.

4. EMT - lots of volunteer squads in NoVA. Tech jobs and volunteering positions usually require at least EMT-B or CNA.

[EMEDPA]

if you are thinking of PA school as "settling" you should really look with a long view towards becoming a doc. folks here don't like when I say this, but working as a family medicine doc can be much more family friendly than working as a pa. you can make 100k+ working 20 hrs/week. you can do as many or as few procedures as you want. work in or out of a hospital, do peds an ob(or not do either). you can opt to do a cushy FP residency and have kids while a resident. I worked at a place with one of these residencies and one of the female docs had 3 kids in 3 years of residency and graduated on time with her class. one of the great lies of the PA profession is that PAs have better lives than docs. maybe better than surgeons, but not anyone else. At my job for example docs are not allowed to work more than 144 hrs/mo(and few work close to that) while there is no restriction on PA hours and many of us work 180-220 hrs/mo for 1/3 the salary and much less respect. Think long and hard about your choices. Talk to PAs who have gone back to medical school because they were unhappy as PAs.

[zoopeda]

working as a family medicine doc can be much more family friendly than working as a pa. you can make 100k+ working 20 hrs/week.

 

Will this still be true in 10 or 15 years when OP is well into his chosen career path?

[EMEDPA]

Will this still be true in 10 or 15 years when OP is well into his chosen career path?

yup. there will always be a need for primary care docs, even more so in the future. I know many FP docs who were basically told "write your requests and we will grant them if you work 20-24 hrs/week." One works 4 five hour day shifts while her kids are in school every week for 120k and full benefits. one got full loan repayment for a 4 day work week in a semi-rural area. the options as a doc are >>>>than as a PA. That's just the truth. to practice full scope EM for example I have to drive > 1 hr from a major metro area. there are only 5 PAs at this job and it is the only one of its kind for PAs within hundreds of miles, possibly within a 3 state area. I applied for this job every year for a decade.

for an em doc one day out of residency they can walk to work in any major city if they so choose, work 1/2 my hrs for 3x my salary.

[arc5005]

if you are thinking of PA school as "settling" you should really look with a long view towards becoming a doc. folks here don't like when I say this, but working as a family medicine doc can be much more family friendly than working as a pa. you can make 100k+ working 20 hrs/week. you can do as many or as few procedures as you want. work in or out of a hospital, do peds an ob(or not do either). you can opt to do a cushy FP residency and have kids while a resident. I worked at a place with one of these residencies and one of the female docs had 3 kids in 3 years of residency and graduated on time with her class. one of the great lies of the PA profession is that PAs have better lives than docs. maybe better than surgeons, but not anyone else. At my job for example docs are not allowed to work more than 144 hrs/mo(and few work close to that) while there is no restriction on PA hours and many of us work 180-220 hrs/mo for 1/3 the salary and much less respect. Think long and hard about your choices. Talk to PAs who have gone back to medical school because they were unhappy as PAs.

 

Thanks, I needed this. I really don't have much insight to differences between PAs and doctors. Everyone always suggests that PA is the faster, less debt, better work-life balance route. I'm interested in the DO route, and would be interested in PCP/FM, Psychiatry, or Peds as long as I could still have a good work-life balance. Family is going to be my priority when it comes time to it.

 

1) Is it pretty common that PAs go back to medical school?

 

2) Do a lot of PAs feel this way? I feel like this is a perspective I haven't heard before. It seems like a lot of forums and blogs I have read is that PA is great, and the "lines" between PAs and docs gets blurred often, especially in PCP.

[EMEDPA]

Thanks, I needed this. I really don't have much insight to differences between PAs and doctors. Everyone always suggests that PA is the faster, less debt, better work-life balance route. I'm interested in the DO route, and would be interested in PCP/FM, Psychiatry, or Peds as long as I could still have a good work-life balance. Family is going to be my priority when it comes time to it.

 

1) Is it pretty common that PAs go back to medical school?

 

2) Do a lot of PAs feel this way? I feel like this is a perspective I haven't heard before. It seems like a lot of forums and blogs I have read is that PA is great, and the "lines" between PAs and docs gets blurred often, especially in PCP.

no, 5% of PAs go back to med school. most go DO.

a lot of older PAs feel this way. A lot of younger PAs in their 20s think of PA as "just a job" and if you are willing to do that and not commit to a specialty and learning more every day and being responsible for your decisions it works out fine. many PAs are content to present every single pt to a physician for their entire careers. those of us who think of being a pa as practicing medicine with the same responsibilities as docs aren't willing to not know stuff they need to function independently. As a pa one should be able to practice medicine on a desert island without a doc around and rarely make a call to a specialist for something way outside your scope of practice. that's what we were designed for- going places the docs won't go. too many today are content to do cosmetic derm or some fluffy 9-5 specialty with no real responsibility. that is a waste of an education.

[arc5005]

no, 5% of PAs go back to med school. most go DO.

a lot of older PAs feel this way. A lot of younger PAs in their 20s think of PA as "just a job" and if you are willing to do that and not commit to a specialty and learning more every day and being responsible for your decisions it works out fine. many PAs are content to present every single pt to a physician for their entire careers. those of us who think of being a pa as practicing medicine with the same responsibilities as docs aren't willing to not know stuff they need to function independently. As a pa one should be able to practice medicine on a desert island without a doc around and rarely make a call to a specialist for something way outside your scope of practice. that's what we were designed for- going places the docs won't go. too many today are content to do cosmetic derm or some fluffy 9-5 specialty with no real responsibility. that is a waste of an education.

 

Interesting. I'm definitely the type who would prefer to hold a more authoritative position, and always having to have the doc sign off may get frustrating, especially since I'd feel like I'd be competent enough to know. Perhaps DO/MD is the way to go.

 

Why did you not go DO or MD?

[EMEDPA]

Interesting. I'm definitely the type who would prefer to hold a more authoritative position, and always having to have the doc sign off may get frustrating, especially since I'd feel like I'd be competent enough to know. Perhaps DO/MD is the way to go.

 

Why did you not go DO or MD?

bad role models and an inappropriate fear of ochem...I've tried to go back several times and taken all prereqs now except for ochem, but each time life gets in the way. seriously considered the PA to DO bridge at lecom but can't drag the family to erie, pa for 3 years. I'm doing an academic doctorate now instead (DHSc global health).

[arc5005]

bad role models and an inappropriate fear of ochem...I've tried to go back several times and taken all prereqs now except for ochem, but each time life gets in the way. seriously considered the PA to DO bridge at lecom but can't drag the family to erie, pa for 3 years. I'm doing an academic doctorate now instead (DHSc global health).

 

Okay. I am currently taking Organic Chemistry I and going to sign up for Orgo II in the spring. I also need to take Physics II, Gen Chem II, and the MCAT. I'll probably need to self-teach or take Sociology and Biochemistry as well to prepare me for the MCAT. This is also a big factor into why I was considering PA school over DO, because the pre-reqs aren't as bad.