JFarnsworth Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 I was wondering if PAs will ever become unionized... here in California the nursing union is very strong and nurses have fantastic perqs, so wouldn't it be nice to have that as a PA? I know there are pitfalls to having a union but I would welcome any discussion on this subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilding Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 When hospitals start hiring goon squads and chaining the PA's out of the facilities, it will be time to start thinking about a union. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopefulPA Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Are NP in the union too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFarnsworth Posted July 11, 2008 Author Share Posted July 11, 2008 Yes, NPs are usually in the union, if they work for a hospital. (In California, any way) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdavis1409 Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Having worked for a union, my vote would be 100% against unionizing. Anytime someone else has control of your negotiations regarding compesation, benefits, etc., it is a bad thing. Plus, you have to pay them for their "organization" in the form of dues. Discussions between you and your employer also must involve the union. Not a good idea, besides the fact that as professionals, I don't think that unionizing would be the image we wish to portray. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmerelda Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 I wish I had read and/or known this before we unionized. Personally, I think it's the worst thing we could have done and now I feel like we are stuck in this flypaper type mess. It seems each move we make just makes everything worse. The last meeting we had with our union rep, I started to voice my discontent and he reminded me that the union had gotten us all raises. Pulease, we are still waiting for the adjustments and that was three years ago. In the meantime, each side has renigged (sp?) on everything in the contract and we are just stuck hanging. Example. we were supposed to get $1600 for CMEs, the union was to give $750 and our employer $850. Three years later and no reimbursement on the union side, we are told and have been told that we are "not in the system". Not in the system? We've had a contract for six years and our new contract is up for negotiations. It feels like an impossible mess. As a side note, the MDs are unionized also. Having worked for a union, my vote would be 100% against unionizing. Anytime someone else has control of your negotiations regarding compesation, benefits, etc., it is a bad thing. Plus, you have to pay them for their "organization" in the form of dues. Discussions between you and your employer also must involve the union. Not a good idea, besides the fact that as professionals, I don't think that unionizing would be the image we wish to portray. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFarnsworth Posted July 14, 2008 Author Share Posted July 14, 2008 Thank you all for your input. I guess I am envious of the protection and OT pay that nurses get! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smrtmom1 Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 Are we not covered under the same laws as physicians? My understanding was that they are not allowed to unionize. If they aren't, why would we be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coloradopa Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 Are we not covered under the same laws as physicians? My understanding was that they are not allowed to unionize. If they aren't, why would we be? We can unionize in the same situation that physicians can. If we are employees. The issue is that while it is possible to unionize large employers its impossible to unionize small ones. The NPs in California for that are union for the most part work for the hospital. They are covered under the same union and benefits as the nurses. In these situations PAs may be in the same union or a different one. Fortunately there is good case law that the hospital can't pay NPs and PAs different wage for the same work. In the case of most medical practices they are small and there are only a few PAs. The practice could simply not recognize the union or hire someone else. There are limits on how small labor units can be and most PA environments do not support this. One thought would be for all PAs in an area to band together in a union and negotiate salaries together. This is what is prohibited by anti trust law. Its similar to physicians collectively trying to negotiate with an insurance company. David Carpenter, PA-C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFarnsworth Posted July 15, 2008 Author Share Posted July 15, 2008 Fortunately there is good case law that the hospital can't pay NPs and PAs different wage for the same work. Hey, could you give me more info on that? And you're right, MDs in Kaiser are unionized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted July 15, 2008 Moderator Share Posted July 15, 2008 pa's at kaiser in the pacific northwest are in the same union as the nurses and np's. it was a good idea. I voted it for it. we got better pay( 3x actually), sabbatical benefit, incentive pay for extra shifts, yearly cost of living raises, etc well worth the 14 dollars/pay period in union dues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFarnsworth Posted July 15, 2008 Author Share Posted July 15, 2008 pa's at kaiser in the pacific northwest are in the same union as the nurses and np's. it was a good idea. I voted it for it. we got better pay( 3x actually), sabbatical benefit, incentive pay for extra shifts, yearly cost of living raises, etcwell worth the 14 dollars/pay period in union dues. HOW DID YOU GET THIS TO HAPPEN???????????? Please please tell me so I can try it myself. Which Kaiser is this???? Certainly not in Nor Cal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted July 15, 2008 Moderator Share Posted July 15, 2008 HOW DID YOU GET THIS TO HAPPEN???????????? Please please tell me so I can try it myself. Which Kaiser is this???? Certainly not in Nor Cal. kaiser in portland, oregon. the union is the oregon federation of nurses and health professions(ofnhp). we organized to join the union. voted on it(it passed) and now we are members. our salary more than doubled overnight, I only work there per diem now but was fairly active in the process around 8 yrs ago when I was full time there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellen Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 Vote no for unions - I agree with those above that say it is a BAD idea. I am required to pay dues and they don't do much. I am not a PA but in healthcare and it is terrible. They do not use our money for good but for themselves - trips, cars etc. We are educated individuals smart enough to negotiate our business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellen Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 PS my dues are $80.00 a month and I could do a lot with $80.00! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alleycat Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 I vote 'NO' to unionization. In my 2nd career (PA being my 3rd), I was a steward and voting delegate at large for Illinois AFSCME. they had me climbing the organizational chart to the upper eschalones (sp:sadface:) I voted in three AFSCME vs St of Illinois contract negotiations. over the 15 years I was active w/them, I began to see exactly what Ellen said, upper folks got 4* hotel reservations for "meetings", Carte Blanche on expense voucher meals...one meal easily > $50-75 $$ per person. lots of perks. when I voiced that this didn't quite seem fair, I was told to 'hush' and enjoy it since I was 'one of them'. Unions are a double edged sword and I support their origins way back when...but currently..no. they are users and more about themselves than about 'you'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superfundee Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 Having worked for a union, my vote would be 100% against unionizing. Anytime someone else has control of your negotiations regarding compesation, benefits, etc., it is a bad thing. Plus, you have to pay them for their "organization" in the form of dues. Discussions between you and your employer also must involve the union. Not a good idea, besides the fact that as professionals, I don't think that unionizing would be the image we wish to portray. Chris Totally agree. My first job as a PA right out of school, I worked for 1199 SEIU Union. We have totally different contract that nurses, who have much well-established, "better" deal. I hated working for Union. I can go on and on about why Union is bad for some PAs. -Can't negotiate salary between employer and yourself. -Union workers may not be entitled to receive bonus from your boss. -No matter how super competent you are, your salary is capped way below than other non-unionized PAs. On the flip side, if you only care about job security, and not to worry about getting fired, Union is good. (but you are paying for it through union dues) - If you have tons of medical issues that you need to see doctor often without co-pay and/or have to be on tons of Rx med, Union maybe better. (almost every care is free.) - You have good benefit and tons of sick days. (However, I think UNION promotes laziness as well.) It may seem harsh but personally I think of union dues as more or less extortion. I will not be surprised if Union corruption still exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopefulPA Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 On the flip side, if you only care about job security, and not to worry about getting fired, Union is good. (but you are paying for it through union dues) If you are a good hard working PA then you probably don't have anything to worry about, however if you are lazy and or not competient then the union is the way to go. I worked in HR for 17+ yrs and my take is the union take 100% of their members dues to 1.either perks as described above or fighting for the bottom 20% performers to keep their jobs. Interestly enough the non union places I worked had far less discipline/attendance problems than the unionized places. - If you have tons of medical issues that you need to see doctor often without co-pay and/or have to be on tons of Rx med, Union maybe better. (almost every care is free.) Not true None of the union contracts I neogiotated (Teamsters, UAW, United Steel Workers, CAW) in my 17 years had free medical or Rx meds. all had employee contributions, deductibles and co-pays. And in the past 5 years almost all of the "cadiallac" plans have added the same just ask the the UAW or the Teachers in WI. If it hasn't happened yet to the few contacts that remain with everything free cost sharing WILL happen soon. - You have good benefit and tons of sick days. (However, I think UNION promotes laziness as well.) Actually most companies organizations provide equal or better days off to their non uninon employees. It may seem harsh but personally I think of union dues as more or less extortion. I will not be surprised if Union corruption still exist. I have a Masters in Labor Relations and spent almost 17 yrs dealing with various unions. Don't get me wrong without the unions in the 50s/60s we would not have the legal protection or benefits that are standard now. But they outgrew their usefulness by the 1980s, we all have the individual protection for-the-most-part. But the unions got greedy (the upper echelons) and fight for poor/lazy/incompentent and redunancy which cripples those companies/organizations in globally competitive markets. The fact is the pie is only so big. Unions could be good if 1. stop fighting for the unsatisfactory performers and protecting job classification and become more collaborative and work to improve the efficiency of the organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dm123 Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 Agree with HopefulPA. Plus there are are not that many right to work states. Example, Boeing is planning on opening a big plant in South Carolina. Will not necessarily have to be unionized, or at least that is my understanding in the news. Lawsuits are 'flying':heheh: left and right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superfundee Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 I think it depends on contract. Our Union contract was slightly different, overall horrendous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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