For the good/seasoned negotiators..

[mednut83]

i am a relatively new grad that got completely taken advantage of in a contract (I was 'the nice guy') and treated like crap in my very first job to where i wound up resigning. I have now found an urgent care position and am negotiating a contract with a new employer. I do not want to fall victim again, but do not want to be so over-demanding that i lose the position. Please look at the specs below as I appreciate any negotiating tactics or input you can give:

 

Position is 8am-8pm Monday and then 8-4pm Tues-Fri. I was told I could run out 'real quick' to grab lunch to bring back, but there is no designated 'hour lunch' or anything like that; Pretty much work/be available during those times. He also recently added in he wanted a once a month Saturday shift; either 9-2 or 9-4 in which it may be possible the following Monday I would go in a little later.

 

1) Base salary 90K i believe

2) It stated that employee is expected to work holidays unless otherwise arranged. I obviously do not like this one but don't know if this is typical of urgent care. The hiring lady had casually mentioned that it would be fine if someone that didnt celebrate the holiday could work it, i could have it off.....but the contract states the above. This bullet is a biggie.

3) Along with #2, Vacation is 10 days, which includes sick days. I feel this is very low, especially since they dont allow holidays --although I'd rather have advice on how to get the holidays as my husband has holidays off--I am not sure if this is standard as a primary contract or just low.

4) CME-5 days. Thats it. No allowance, etc. I did get the ball rolling and stated that instead of salary increase for the saturdays, I wanted $2000 CME so that I could have AAPA and IAPA dues and have $ for conferences; and separately, they take care of state and federal fees to keep me licensed to work for them. Is this overdemanding?

5) Non-compete is no urgent care, family med, or internal med within 15 miles of prim practice and there was some kind of penalty in there as well as being able to change the location without notice. I did talk to a lawyer about this one and was advised to have them only do urgent care, to take out the penalty and changing the location completely. Would you agree?

6) There was a clause to allow them to open mail. That I get, but then there was a statement to allow them to sign insurance forms if they thinks its in their best interest and I am not available. I feel this should be taken out. Have you ever heard of this before?

 

 

I think those are the main things. I really dont want to get screwed again and want to be at a practice for a long time. Thanks everyone!

[mednut83]

i am a relatively new grad that got completely taken advantage of in a contract (I was 'the nice guy') and treated like crap in my very first job to where i wound up resigning. I have now found an urgent care position and am negotiating a contract with a new employer. I do not want to fall victim again, but do not want to be so over-demanding that i lose the position. Please look at the specs below as I appreciate any negotiating tactics or input you can give:

 

Position is 8am-8pm Monday and then 8-4pm Tues-Fri. I was told I could run out 'real quick' to grab lunch to bring back, but there is no designated 'hour lunch' or anything like that; Pretty much work/be available during those times. He also recently added in he wanted a once a month Saturday shift; either 9-2 or 9-4 in which it may be possible the following Monday I would go in a little later.

 

1) Base salary 90K i believe

2) It stated that employee is expected to work holidays unless otherwise arranged. I obviously do not like this one but don't know if this is typical of urgent care. The hiring lady had casually mentioned that it would be fine if someone that didnt celebrate the holiday could work it, i could have it off.....but the contract states the above. This bullet is a biggie.

3) Along with #2, Vacation is 10 days, which includes sick days. I feel this is very low, especially since they dont allow holidays --although I'd rather have advice on how to get the holidays as my husband has holidays off--I am not sure if this is standard as a primary contract or just low.

4) CME-5 days. Thats it. No allowance, etc. I did get the ball rolling and stated that instead of salary increase for the saturdays, I wanted $2000 CME so that I could have AAPA and IAPA dues and have $ for conferences; and separately, they take care of state and federal fees to keep me licensed to work for them. Is this overdemanding?

5) Non-compete is no urgent care, family med, or internal med within 15 miles of prim practice and there was some kind of penalty in there as well as being able to change the location without notice. I did talk to a lawyer about this one and was advised to have them only do urgent care, to take out the penalty and changing the location completely. Would you agree?

6) There was a clause to allow them to open mail. That I get, but then there was a statement to allow them to sign insurance forms if they thinks its in their best interest and I am not available. I feel this should be taken out. Have you ever heard of this before?

 

 

I think those are the main things. I really dont want to get screwed again and want to be at a practice for a long time. Thanks everyone!

[rev ronin]

Eek. You're on the hook for 44+ hours a week, which means 46 (time-and-a-half for beyond 40) with ONLY 10 DAYS OFF PER YEAR. That's 2300 hours you are expected to work for that $90k, not including Saturdays. That's under $40/hour. I make WAY more than that as a new grad in family medicine. 8 holidays, 12 sick days, 20 vacation days, 6 CME days not only makes a 45-50 hour work-week (including charting) tolerable, but my hourly rate is substantially better than yours even if my base is less on paper.

[rev ronin]

Eek. You're on the hook for 44+ hours a week, which means 46 (time-and-a-half for beyond 40) with ONLY 10 DAYS OFF PER YEAR. That's 2300 hours you are expected to work for that $90k, not including Saturdays. That's under $40/hour. I make WAY more than that as a new grad in family medicine. 8 holidays, 12 sick days, 20 vacation days, 6 CME days not only makes a 45-50 hour work-week (including charting) tolerable, but my hourly rate is substantially better than yours even if my base is less on paper.

[mednut83]

thats why i am looking for help. it seems skeleton to me. it is a man and wife small business, but i dont think that is an excuse. because its a small business, there is no health coverage or retirement (i get that under my husbands job, but thats besides the point), so i dont know what to negotiate for--whats appropriate--and when to walk. i really could use anyones help who is willing that can give me an outside, non-emotional, standpoint/argument.

[mednut83]

thats why i am looking for help. it seems skeleton to me. it is a man and wife small business, but i dont think that is an excuse. because its a small business, there is no health coverage or retirement (i get that under my husbands job, but thats besides the point), so i dont know what to negotiate for--whats appropriate--and when to walk. i really could use anyones help who is willing that can give me an outside, non-emotional, standpoint/argument.

[Corpsman2PA]

As a former UC medical assistant in a clinic that sounds eerily similar to this, I say proceed with caution. This contract has "taken advantage of" written all over it, with a side of burn out sprinkled in. We had 2 PAs cycle through our UC clinic, and both left for reasons related to contractual issues, time off, etc. As an outsider, my gut feeling isn't good with this. I'd say leverage for more time off, remove the non-compete, maybe barter for 2k CME, settle for 1k, and pencil in a few holidays. If they don't want to give you what you want, walk. No sense in feeling miserable again. This is basically the advice one of the PAs gave me before she left, "If it doesn't feel right, then its probably not right." I'd be interested to hear what some of the experienced contract folk say. Best of luck.

[Corpsman2PA]

As a former UC medical assistant in a clinic that sounds eerily similar to this, I say proceed with caution. This contract has "taken advantage of" written all over it, with a side of burn out sprinkled in. We had 2 PAs cycle through our UC clinic, and both left for reasons related to contractual issues, time off, etc. As an outsider, my gut feeling isn't good with this. I'd say leverage for more time off, remove the non-compete, maybe barter for 2k CME, settle for 1k, and pencil in a few holidays. If they don't want to give you what you want, walk. No sense in feeling miserable again. This is basically the advice one of the PAs gave me before she left, "If it doesn't feel right, then its probably not right." I'd be interested to hear what some of the experienced contract folk say. Best of luck.

[Theyus]

I agree with the above, negotiate what you think is fair and walk if they don't give it. Mom and pop places like this probably are more flexible with things and willing to lowball more often. What I'd try is:

 

2 Weeks PTO, at least 5 days sick leave.

5 days CME, $1500 stipend for it.

Malpractice

Health

No competition clause

Remove #6

92k Base

 

Realize how much benefits are worth. Not covering health insurance can pull 2-3k out of your pocket a year; Not covering malpractice is similar. 4 less days PTO is nearly $1300 lost for you. No CME could dock you another 500-1500 that you could get elsewhere.

 

So, with a base of 90k without those 4 days, without additional sickleave, without CME, is closer to 84k and they seem like they're going to be stressful to work with.

[mednut83]

as an update, he came back with giving $2k for CME allowance, but not until after 1 year (which obviously didnt help me now) with adding another night every other week--so basically didn't really compensate much; he just added more to his benefit... He didn't even mention covering state/federal dues and with all the numerous red flags, I could already tell he was going to be a struggle, so I walked. I figure it is worth the wait to find the right job and be happy. Thanks to everyone that gave input and made me realize what I should be looking for. I'm pretty confident that I made the right decision.

[mednut83]

as an update, he came back with giving $2k for CME allowance, but not until after 1 year (which obviously didnt help me now) with adding another night every other week--so basically didn't really compensate much; he just added more to his benefit... He didn't even mention covering state/federal dues and with all the numerous red flags, I could already tell he was going to be a struggle, so I walked. I figure it is worth the wait to find the right job and be happy. Thanks to everyone that gave input and made me realize what I should be looking for. I'm pretty confident that I made the right decision.

[mednut83]

as an update, he came back with giving $2k for CME allowance, but not until after 1 year (which obviously didnt help me now) with adding another night every other week--so basically didn't really compensate much; he just added more to his benefit... He didn't even mention covering state/federal dues and with all the numerous red flags, I could already tell he was going to be a struggle, so I walked. I figure it is worth the wait to find the right job and be happy. Thanks to everyone that gave input and made me realize what I should be looking for. I'm pretty confident that I made the right decision.