Negotiating an offer tomorrow morning. Am I ready?

[SpikeDaCat]

Please read and reply...

 

I received an offer from a Salt Lake City urgent care chain last week, and tomorrow is the big day when I go in to discuss the offer and to do some serious negotiating. I studied the contract and the employee handbook in detail, making notes, writing out questions, and drafting my counter-offer. I did a lot of online research, and I contacted a lot of PAs to see what standard UC PA pay is like, and what things I should push for and expect. Keep in mind that I am not a "new grad." I have 8 months of very applicable experience in a setting with a huge amount of autonomy, where most of the patients I see every day are walk-ins.

 

The offer is... not great. The pay is weak, and some of the benefits are, too.

 

Here are my talking points (and I think I'll bring them up in this order):

• Work Status - they're hiring me on as PT/PRN with the intent that I will become FT when a FT opening is available. However, the contract does not mention that, and does not give any kind of timeline. I want that information to be there.
  
• Outside Employment - Current clause says that the UC chain must take priority over any other outside work. While I'm PRN, that is just not going to work for me. My primary source of income has to be the priority.
  
• Noncompete Clause - No practicing urgent care medicine within a 10-mile radius for at least 2 years after employment ends. They have several locations, so that would banish me from the entire Salt Lake area. Not good.
  
• Malpractice Tail - required when I start, not covered by the new work (or the old). I'm going to ask that their malpractice include prior acts coverage. OR if they can subsidize occurrence coverage for me.
  
• CME - $500 (for tuition only), with no CME days. I will ask for $1500 (including travel) and 5 CME days. If they won't do this, then request a pay increase.
  
• Required training for work - not covered. If they're requiring me to do any special training for work (CPR, ACLS, whatever), it ought to be covered. If they won't cover this, then I will ask for increased pay.
  
• Finally, PAY. - Offered $39/hr, which is just plain too low. Average is about $50/hr, and that will be my starting point (I'll show them 3+ resources which indicate that appropriate pay is considerably higher than they offered). If they agree to cover the things I've asked for above, I might be willing to accept as low as $45. Maybe. If they won't increase CME benefits or cover other work-related costs, then I'll push for closer to $50.
  

I do have some unanswered questions - What percentage of health insurance is covered by the employer? Do I qualify for time-and-a-half overtime pay? ...and so forth. Those will also factor into my negotiations.

 

My hope is that the employer will take my detailed negotiations as an indication that I am careful, thorough, responsible, and confident... and not high-maintenance or greedy. I want to couch my arguments in such a way that he understands that I'm not asking for anything extraordinary, because I don't think that I am.

 

If you see any major problems or holes in my gameplan, please let me know ASAP. If you think it looks good, just leave a quick reply and wish me luck.

 

Thanks, everyone!

[deborah212]

I agree with work status, outside employment, and noncompete.

 

I'm a bit confused with the malpractice piece as my jobs have always included tail. With prior-acts, is this for your current 8 month employment, or does for the current urgent care job? Did you pay for tail for your prior job?

 

I do think you are far overreaching with the CME. $1500 with 5 days CME is comparable for some full time positions. I think $500 is reasonable for PT/prn. However, if you are looking to become full-time, you should renegotiate this when hired for full time.

 

Agree that required training for work should be covered- ie BLS, ACLS.

 

I can't speak to pay. PAs on the west coast are apparently making a lot more than those on the east coast!

[ventana]

Please read and reply...

 

I received an offer from a Salt Lake City urgent care chain last week, and tomorrow is the big day when I go in to discuss the offer and to do some serious negotiating. I studied the contract and the employee handbook in detail, making notes, writing out questions, and drafting my counter-offer. I did a lot of online research, and I contacted a lot of PAs to see what standard UC PA pay is like, and what things I should push for and expect. Keep in mind that I am not a "new grad." I have 8 months of very applicable experience in a setting with a huge amount of autonomy, where most of the patients I see every day are walk-ins.

 

The offer is... not great. The pay is weak, and some of the benefits are, too.

 

Here are my talking points (and I think I'll bring them up in this order):

• Work Status - they're hiring me on as PT/PRN with the intent that I will become FT when a FT opening is available. However, the contract does not mention that, and does not give any kind of timeline. I want that information to be there. sounds okay
  
• Outside Employment - Current clause says that the UC chain must take priority over any other outside work. While I'm PRN, that is just not going to work for me. My primary source of income has to be the priority. DO NOT ALLOW THEM TO TAKE PRIORITY - PRN means you get to only work when you want to - PT might have more committment but if they want to have the priority they need to hire you full time
  
• Noncompete Clause - No practicing urgent care medicine within a 10-mile radius for at least 2 years after employment ends. They have several locations, so that would banish me from the entire Salt Lake area. Not good. NO WAY - very state specific as to rather these are even legal - most courts that I am aware of have sided with the persons need to make a living and there short time and distance one's are only reasonable - IE 2.5 miles for 6 months. In some states (MINE) physician noncompetes are ILLEGAL as the health of the community trumps any corporate greed (calling it what it is) NEVER sign a non-compete
  
• Malpractice Tail - required when I start, not covered by the new work (or the old). I'm going to ask that their malpractice include prior acts coverage. OR if they can subsidize occurrence coverage for me. single clause that states employer is 100% responsible for malpractice coverage should protect you -can demand a tail policy but they might not do that - BTW malpractice can get $$$$$ so you want them to cover it
  
• CME - $500 (for tuition only), with no CME days. I will ask for $1500 (including travel) and 5 CME days. If they won't do this, then request a pay increase. to much - full time 40 hour commitments get $1000-$2500 and 0-5 days off - - - as a per diem you get nothing (but should have a higher hourly rate), Part time will have a prorated benefit as determined by the full time people - some places just make the hourly higher and say you are on your own.
  
• Required training for work - not covered. If they're requiring me to do any special training for work (CPR, ACLS, whatever), it ought to be covered. If they won't cover this, then I will ask for increased pay. ask for them to pay for BLS, ACLS, PALS and even maybe ATLS - it DIRECTLY benefits them and shows you like UC
  
• Finally, PAY. - Offered $39/hr, which is just plain too low. Average is about $50/hr, and that will be my starting point (I'll show them 3+ resources which indicate that appropriate pay is considerably higher than they offered). If they agree to cover the things I've asked for above, I might be willing to accept as low as $45. Maybe. If they won't increase CME benefits or cover other work-related costs, then I'll push for closer to $50. Per diem rate needs to be close to $65 but then you get no other bennies, no CME, no PTO, no health insurance (but they do provide malpractice) Point out to them if you see 3 patients an hour (easy) and they average receipt per patient is $100 (also easy) that is $300 for the clinic, all you are asking for is $65 - let them know you know what your generating instead of trying to argue up from a low offer
  

I do have some unanswered questions - What percentage of health insurance is covered by the employer? Do I qualify for time-and-a-half overtime pay? ...and so forth. Those will also factor into my negotiations.unlikely any health ins benefit, can't see getting overtime as a part time employe as you likely will be far under 40 hours, maybe a shift differential is nights are force on you (10-20% of hourly rate at minimum)

 

My hope is that the employer will take my detailed negotiations as an indication that I am careful, thorough, responsible, and confident... and not high-maintenance or greedy. I want to couch my arguments in such a way that he understands that I'm not asking for anything extraordinary, because I don't think that I am. You are valuable and worth it - don't let them cheap you down, sell yours skills and excitement with the position - you are now the salespersons for yourself - work it and don't be afraid to point out your strong points and to at the same time how excited you are to learn!

 

If you see any major problems or holes in my gameplan, please let me know ASAP. If you think it looks good, just leave a quick reply and wish me luck.

 

Thanks, everyone!

 

good luck!

[SpikeDaCat]

Thanks for the reply, deborah212 and ventana!

 

Regarding malpractice, I discovered/realized that I never signed a real contract with my current employer (this is my first PA job). I am currently on my SP's insurance, but I highly doubt he will want to pay for tail coverage for me, as it is so expensive. It is possible that I'm just not understanding how malpractice insurance works, but I thought prior acts coverage at the new job would work instead of a tail at the old job. Is that not true? (Honest question - I really don't know.)

 

Because the PT/PRN status is only temporary until I become full-time (when the next opening comes along), I am negotiating for everything as though I am full-time. PRN doesn't get any benefits whatsoever, so the only reason I bring the CME and other stuff up is because I want the contract to be accurate for when I transition to full-time. So yes, if $1500 with 5 days is comparable, then that's what I'll ask for.

 

As per pay, I'm on neither coast, so I'm not sure what you mean. The AAPA median pay for Utah urgent care is $100,000/yr, or about $50/hr. Nationally, MGMA says $108,000 per year, and AAUCM says about $110,000 per year. PAs in the area report (new grad) starting pay of about $42/hr, but that was ~5 years ago, and they were fresh out of school.

[SpikeDaCat]

Just got back.

 

Some of my concerns are related to the fact that they were using a full-time contract for a PRN (to start) position. For instance, I only have to put the new employer as the priority when I become full-time with them. The contract doesn't specify that, so he will edit it. I asked for there to be some kind of clause stating that I would become full-time, but he said no, because it depends on my performance, and there's no guarantee. I forgot to strike out the noncompete clause. I'll just cross it off before I sign the revised contract.

 

Regarding malpractice, he states that their claims-made coverage includes prior-acts, and that they cover it - no additional expense to me. I did not ask about CME benefits or required trainings for work, as those mostly apply when (or if) I become full-time. I'll discuss them later. Also forgot to ask about overtime pay... but once again, that won't matter until I'm full-time.

 

When it comes to pay, I showed him my three sources - AAPA, MGMA, and AAUCM, which all state median is $50+/hr. He said that he would take those into consideration and a look at their bottom line and come back with a better offer. He also said that we could start at one rate, do a performance eval and possibly then increase pay after the 60-day trial probationary period is up. I'd prefer to not do it that way, since they're not paying any benefits for me while I'm PRN, but I didn't want to get confrontational. He took my printouts of typical UC PA salary, but he didn't throw out any solid numbers, so I'm not sure what the new contract will say. We shall see.

 

They want me on Mondays, if possible. The question is, who will cover me? I don't think I can trade days off with the NP, because I know he works (for the same UC chain) on Mondays. My SP works full-time in a local ED and has a crazy schedule.

 

The UC boss asked again if I would be willing to relocate about 70 miles from where I currently live, if that's where a FT opening arises. I told him that it would have to wait a few months since I don't have the money to move and set up a place right now (I have no furniture or anything). He actually said that they might be able to help with that. Cool.

 

All in all, I think it went pretty well. Yes, I forgot a couple of things, but I don't think that will be a big deal to fix. I'll probably tell my SP today that I'm going to start moonlighting for the UC on my days off. I don't think he would mind that. I don't think I'll tell him that I may become full-time with the UC if I'm as awesome as they hope I am...