Access to mental health care.

[physasst]

Ummm....

1.) WE are NOT Australia or Australians (castoff convicts subject to Kings Rule)...

 

2.) YOU know as well as I do that comparing the Diverse and LARGE population of the USA to a basically Homogenious and small population like Australia is disenguinous. MOST of the land mass in Australia is unpopulated. The aboriginals are 4th class citizens and come into rare contact with the White Folks and/or firearms. The population of westernized White folks and expats is relatively small so OF COURSE A GUN BAN WOULD YIELD the results the researchers/report writers were looking/hoping for.

 

3.) We are NOT the subjects of Monarchies... like Australia or Canada.... so the foundational background, history, society/socialization doesn't work.

 

Your post is MOOT....!!!!!!

FAIL...!!!!

Try again but leave out your vast knowledge of "Gun Clips"...

 

 

That means nothing...you are basically arguing reductio ad absurdum....it doesn't even deserve an intelligent reply. Of course you could use more CAPS I guess.

 

The simple fact is gun control laws work...they have worked elsewhere and could work here.

[Contrarian]

... [silly schitt]...

 

The simple fact is gun control laws work...they have worked elsewhere and could work here.

 

"Gun Control" LAWS only work for those that follow LAWS...

Criminals and Psychotic folks aren't usually included in this group smart guy... and it seems that you have to be BOTH of these to kill/murder innocent kids/people.

 

Now please reply with the names of really impotent people who YOU personally sat in research meetings with that think other wise Mr. "appeal to authority" logical fallacy....

[Will352ns]

 

The food, water, supplies, wives and daughters of you male passivists out there will belong to those predators who don't share your sense of right/wrong/fairness... humanism or justice.

 

Good Luck with that...

 

Hee hee, wow...just...wow. Funny...the aSSumption that I am somehow a pacifist because I disagreed with something that was said that MIGHT be contrary to position you hold. Trust me, if the sh!t hit the fan, I am pretty sure I will fair better than most. Thanks for your concern.

 

I got it with the sheep, wolf, and sheepdog analogy, I've heard Dave Grossman speak in person.

 

I'm just not a fan of sensationalizing. Calm, rational, and logical is the way to go; more good points that LTC Grossman speaks about.

[Contrarian]

Hee hee, wow...just...wow. Funny...the aSSumption that I am somehow a pacifist because I disagreed with something that was said that MIGHT be contrary to position you hold. Trust me, if the sh!t hit the fan, I am pretty sure I will fair better than most. Thanks for your concern.

 

I got it with the sheep, wolf, and sheepdog analogy, I've heard Dave Grossman speak in person.

 

Umm....

I too have sat in the audience of a Grossman Talk.

 

Why YOU think my ENTIRE post was directed squarely at YOU is interesting. Because "rational" folks tend to simply respond to the points that apply.

 

I wrote "passivists"... if YOU aren't one, then you were mils away and out of the area of concern and nowhere near my "front sight post"...

[physasst]

"Gun Control" LAWS only work for those that follow LAWS...

Criminals and Psychotic folks aren't usually included in this group smart guy... and it seems that you have to be BOTH of these to kill/murder innocent kids/people.

 

Now please reply with the names of really impotent people who YOU personally sat in research meetings with that think other wise Mr. "appeal to authority" logical fallacy....

 

So, by your implication then, there are no psychotic people or criminals in Australia? Interesting. I'd bet they'd be happy to know that. Here's a question, how do psychotics and criminals get ahold of guns if there are none around? You do realize that they actually buy them....right? Either through intermediaries, so called "straw purchase sales", or through gun dealers.....

 

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/guns/procon/guns.html

 

Now what if the gun dealers didn't have the guns to sell? Hmm...Interesting thought to ponder I guess. It seemed to work in the UK too...

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/18/opinion/the-gun-challenge-strict-laws-work.html?_r=0

At the time, the prime minister, John Howard, said, “We do not want the American disease imported into Australia.” The laws have worked. The American Journal of Law and Economics reported in 2010 that firearm homicides in Australia dropped 59 percent between 1995 and 2006. In the 18 years before the 1996 laws, there were 13 gun massacres resulting in 102 deaths, according to Harvard researchers, with none in that category since.

 

Similarly, after 16 children and their teacher were killed by a gunman in Dunblane, Scotland, in 1996, the British government banned all private ownership of automatic weapons and virtually all handguns. Those changes gave Britain some of the toughest gun control laws in the developed world on top of already strict rules. Hours of exhaustive paperwork are required if anyone wants to own even a shotgun or rifle for hunting. The result has been a decline in murders involving firearms.

 

 

In Japan, which has very strict laws, only 11 people were killed with guns in 2008, compared with 12,000 deaths by firearms that year in the United States — a huge disparity even accounting for the difference in population.

while ratcheting up his national antigun campaign, “We are the only industrialized country that has this problem. In the whole world, the only one.”

 

 

Americans do not have to settle for that.

 

 

Please continue with the ad homs, I'm at least getting a laugh while I'm recovering here.

[Contrarian]

^^^^.... Again more sillyness.. amateur^^^

 

Even if there was a REAL reduction in "murders involving firearms"... there was no reduction in murders/people wanting to kill each other with other objects.

 

You are well out of your area of knowledge as We have been discussing the sharp increase in "Blade Crime" for a few years in the UK/Australia and other Colonies on other sites.....

 

Thousands of people have been stopped and searched in recent weeks as part of a police drive to deter young people from carrying knives.

 

Sound like a civil rights nigthtmare to me....

 

 

Knife crime in Canada, UK

 

Posted by David Hardy · 7 June 2008 12:06 PM

The Toronto Globe and Mail has the story.

 

"All those things we're doing to decrease firearm weapons is cutting down the availability of these guns," says Staff Inspector Brian Raybould, the head of the Toronto police homicide squad. "At the same time, criminals who choose to arm themselves have to find some way to do it. If firearms aren't available, what's the next best thing? Knives, sharp-edged weapons."

.....

Toronto police responded to 167 stabbings up to the end of April, 2008 - in 73 of those cases, the victims were taken to hospital in serious condition. That's up from 58 by April last year.

 

Still, overall homicide rates - by any method - for Toronto and its suburbs are roughly the same so far this year as they were last year.

 

.....

In Britain, where Robert Knox, 18, who played schoolmate Marcus Belby in the Harry Potter movies, was stabbed to death with a wood-handled kitchen knife outside a pub last month, it is illegal to carry any knife longer than 7.62 centimetres. It is also illegal to sell a knife of any kind to someone under 18.

 

Yet stabbings have become an epidemic in Britain. Mr. Knox and more than 30 others died at knifepoint in the first five months of this year. The deaths are just a few of the 100-plus stabbings seen in the country since January, and police say most are committed by young men in their teens or early 20s.

 

Some experts point to Britain's strict gun laws to explain the surge in violent knifings. It's called the substitution effect, says Jack Levin, co-director of the Brudnick Center on Violence at Northeastern University in Boston.

 

He has been watching the "fewer guns, more knives" phenomenon for years in the United States."

 

 

Knife Crime in the UK and Scotland

 

Knife Epidemic spirals out of control in UK ...

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7502180.stm

[physasst]

^^^^.... Again more sillyness.. amatuer^^^

 

Even if there was a REAL reduction in "murders involving firearms"... there was no reduction in murders/people wanting to kill each other with other objects.

 

You are well out of your area of knowledge as We have been discussing the sharp increase in "Blade Crime" for a few years in the UK/Australia and other Colonies on other sites.....

 

 

 

Knife Epidemic spirals out of control in UK ...

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7502180.stm

 

 

Umm, according to this....there was no increase in Australia...From the article I linked to...

What happened next has been the subject of several academic studies. Violent crime and gun-related deaths did not come to an end in Australia, of course. But as the Washington Post’s Wonkblog pointed out in August, homicides by firearm plunged 59 percent between 1995 and 2006, with no corresponding increase in non-firearm-related homicides. The drop in suicides by gun was even steeper: 65 percent. Studies found a close correlation between the sharp declines and the gun buybacks. Robberies involving a firearm also dropped significantly. Meanwhile, home invasions did not increase, contrary to fears that firearm ownership is needed to deter such crimes. But here’s the most stunning statistic. In the decade before the Port Arthur massacre, there had been 11 mass shootings in the country. There hasn’t been a single one in Australia since.

 

Nevermind that many of us would rather be faced with a knife attack then a gun attack.

 

http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/1997/02/24/knives-00006/

 

For example a study in The Journal of Trauma (36:4

pp516-524) looked at all injury admissions to a Seattle hospital over

a six year period. The mortality rate for gunshot wounds was 22%

while that for stab wounds was 4%. Even among patients that survived,

gunshot wounds were more serious — the mean cost of treatment for

these patients was more than twice that for stab wounds.

 

You stay classy now C.....

[Contrarian]

Correct... there was no INCREASE in total murders...

But the "stricter gun laws" also caused no DECREASE in total MURDERS either.

(only a decrease in murders with a firearm to be offset by a increase in murders with other objects)

 

CRIMINALs and Psychotic folks that wanted to murder others simply found different means ... and folks with lessor physical capability didn't have a equalizing tool (firearm) to "level the playing field to maybe protect themselves.

 

This statement by YOU and your ILK... who likes to speak to things they know absolutely nothing about... The following is folly.

 

Nevermind that many of us would rather be faced with a knife attack then a gun attack.

 

"Many of you" have never been either stabbed or shot or shot at or actually handled any firearms beyond a introductory presentation. The only knowledge "Many of you" have about firearms comes from the TELEVISION and movies. "Many of you" don't even know the differece between a magazine and a "clip" even though "Many of you" have been in the military.

 

Soooo.... "Many of you" don't know WTF you are talking about when it comes to firearms... but pretend that you do.

 

Whats even more interesting is that as healthcare professionals who likes to act like they know medicine and physics and the human body... its concerning that you wouldn't intuit that geting shot by a piece of metal moving as fast as it does and as hot as it is...is often times safer than being cut/stabbed. Hint: Think cautery.

 

So if I stab you in the thigh, you bleed out and die from hypovolemia.

If I shoot you in the thigh, there is a good chance that you will die from hypovolemia but ALSO a great chance that it will be a T&T with little to no blood due to the speed and heat of the bullet.

 

Lots of folks survive multiple gunshot wounds due to this phenomenon... not many survive the stabbings. So you may want to re-think your notion that you would rather be stabbed.

 

I've been shot, cut and stabbed.

Hands down... if given a choice... I'd rather be shot.

Most of us who have "BTDT" would rather be shot.

 

So Cooool..... lets "BAN" Knives...

:heheh:

 

 

So once again... I'll type this R-E-A-L-L-Y S-L-O-W for you so you can keep up.

 

Making LAWS about ANYTHING only applies to LAW ABIDING folks.

Psychotic folks and/or CRIMINALS by definition usually don't follow LAWS.

If they did... there would be no such thing as crime, murder or criminals.

 

Obstructing firearm sales will only create a LARGER black market (again Criminals don't care about your laws)... and increase the amount of firearms being smuggled into the USA. If we have been unable to stem the tidal wave of drugs AND people smuggled into this country, I'm not sure why YOU or anyone else would believe we will do a better job with firearms.

 

So then we set up a situation where the MAJORITY of the firearms in this country are smuggled an in the hands of CRIMINALS and the average LAW ABIDING citizen will be assured to be unarmed and unable to defend themselves against 2 punks with a baseball bat and/or a pointy screwdriver...

 

Yeah... ok... smooth move petey....!!!!

Contrarian

 

P.S... You stay ignorant now P....!!!

[Hemegroup]

Whats even more interesting is that as healthcare professionals who likes to act like they know medicine and physics and the human body... its concerning that you wouldn't intuit that geting shot by a piece of metal moving as fast as it does and as hot as it is...is often times safer than being cut/stabbed. Hint: Think cautery.

 

I asked to write my first English paper in community college on gunshot trauma. I went to the hospital library and wrote quite a piece which garnered an A and spurred a class assignment on self-inflicted wounds to children due to not locking. The conflict to your words are the physics of shock-wave, bounce, yaw and roll. Of course there's shearing, but it's certainly not the only MOI.

[rev ronin]

Contrarian,

 

It's even worse than that. South Africa, with very strict handgun laws, has seen police officers ambushed and killed by rifle-wielding thugs (rifles of any caliber go through any soft body armor without slowing appreciably) just for their handguns. I suppose I'd rather a police officer be shot than a child (the police officer, at the very least, signed up for the risk) but that seems like an incredibly poor trade off, especially in light of the other points you raise.

[physasst]

Anecdotal bullsh*t is, well still anecdotal bullsh*t.

 

If you have proof or studies of greater mortality from knive wounds versus gunshot wounds, than by all means share it. I would be happy to read it. Surely there must be some academic accounts of a reduction in mortality from GSW due to "cautery" that leads to a reduced mortality when compared to knive wounds.

 

Until then, your personal accounts mean exactly nothing, except to you. Anecdotal being anecdotal after all....Statistical data being more important after all....

 

As for me, I will continue to support gun control and continue to donate my money towards that cause...irrespective of your feelings on the issue.

 

Also, you again show some problems with reading comprehension...as I posted above, the majority of these guns are BOUGHT legally from dealers, guns shows, and gun stores. They aren't bought on a black market...

[Contrarian]

And YOU again show some problems with reading comprehension...

Even though I typed R-E-A-L S-L-O-W....

 

Obstructing firearm sales will only create a LARGER black market (again Criminals don't care about your laws)... and increase the amount of firearms being smuggled into the USA. If we have been unable to stem the tidal wave of drugs AND people smuggled into this country, I'm not sure why YOU or anyone else would believe we will do a better job with firearms.

 

So then we set up a situation where the MAJORITY of the firearms in this country are smuggled an in the hands of CRIMINALS and the average LAW ABIDING citizen will be assured to be unarmed and unable to defend themselves against 2 punks with a baseball bat and/or a pointy screwdriver...

[Contrarian]

I asked to write my first English paper in community college on gunshot trauma. I went to the hospital library and wrote quite a piece which garnered an A and spurred a class assignment on self-inflicted wounds to children due to not locking. The conflict to your words are the physics of shock-wave, bounce, yaw and roll. Of course there's shearing, but it's certainly not the only MOI.

 

I agree with what you wrote... which is why I wrote "often" not ALWAYS... because the bullet that hit me "yawed, rolled, and bounced" and went throught left Kidney, left lung, diaphram, destroyed the spleen and lodged between T11 and T12. Open Lap to repair the damage. Fortunately, I was armed and kept the pack of 8 thugs at bay (shot 6 of them) until help arrived.

 

Again... my point is simply that any of us that has worked the inner city ED/ER long enough or who has been on a battle field has seen plenty T&T GSWs... and just as many stabbings that were worse.

 

What folk who have little experience with firearms don't know is that the reason many police departments stopped using 9mm handguns was due to the effect I've described above.

 

Overpenetration at 1400-2200 fps doesn't necessarily STOP THE THREAT. These fast and hot rounds don't necessarily STOP criminals from doing what they are doing. Its NOT like in the movies, where everyone who gets shot falls down incapacitated except in the event of being hit at 850 fps by a 45 cal round.

 

Its counter-intuitive for the un-initiated.

More mass and slower FPS stops all threats.