Choosing a School: Location vs. Quality

[sclem]

I am thrilled to post that I have been accepted to two PA schools this year, but I'm now struggling to choose between the two. One is in a location I love, with friends nearby, and in the region I'm hoping to work in after graduation. The other is closer to family but far removed from friends, and I'm really not excited about the idea of living or working in the area. However, I'm more impressed with their program (their facilities, PANCE pass rate, faculty...).

 

Any thoughts on which of these factors is more important?

 

My initial reaction is to choose the better program, but I'm really concerned about finding a job when I graduate. If I'm already anticipating two years in a place I don't want to live, I don't want to be stuck there after graduation because I can only find jobs in the area, too. I guess it boils down to this question: How hard is it to get your first job after graduation outside of connections you've made during clinicals? Is the likelihood of being hired in the same state I go to school in so great that it's worth going to the lower-quality program?

 

Thanks for your input!

[calad]

I was considering making my own thread but i want to add to this instead:

 

How much merit does the whole "go to school around where you want to be working" have? I understand that some PAs get offered jobs through their rotations, but other than that what benefit, job outlook wise, does going to school in a certain area provide? On the contrary, what is it like going to school in one area of the country and then going to a different area to find a job?

[EMEDPA]

I chose good school over location, moved across country and was employed within 2 months of graduation.

also depends how good the good school is and how bad the bad school is.

some schools I would never attend and some I would never turn down.

[HopefulPA]

Do you choose a surgeon based on location or success rate? Choose a PA program the same way you are going to be responsible for people's lives! In PA school you won't have much time for socializing anyway. Several of my classmates were able to find jobs out of State so I don't think it matters unless you want to work in an area that is OVERsatuated to begin with. So you might not get a job anyway. Worst case scenario you take a job in an area/city less desirable for a year get experience under your belt then move on to the job you really want.

 

Wait and see how fast 2 years of PA school flies by......

[chiaroscuro27]

I agree with both posts above! Absolutely on the money!

 

I did the same as EMED; quality will always trump location, and seeing that PAs are employed nationwide, it shouldn't matter if you attend school in the state you wish to practice. On the contrary, I would think going to school out of state and completing rotations in as many places as possible would make you a more well-rounded graduate.

[vaston]

Agree with the above. During rotations my preceptors told me many times that they would hire from certain schools and others they wouldn't touch simply because they knew about the quality of the programs. Food for thought: you mentioned job connections and offers from clinical rotations. Do both schools you're considering set up your rotations for you? Will one of them require you to set up your own rotations (yikes!)?

 

I was in a similar situation. Originally accepted at a school only an 8 hr drive away from home and family. Keep in mind I have a wife and 2 kids, they would have to leave everything too. It was far enough to feel separated but close enough to visit often. That school was only 5 years old at the time and had ho-hum pass rates with quite a few negative remarks regarding quality of rotations/faculty/staff/lecture. The next school I was accepted to is one of the oldest and most respected PA programs in the country. It had everything I could want. BUT, it was over 2,000 miles away from friends and family. In my mind the choice was a no brainer. I uprooted my wife and girls and brought them all the way to the other side of the country so that I could attend the higher quality program. Was it worth it? YES. I had a job lined up several weeks before graduation, much of that due to the fact that my hiring clinic trusted the quality of students graduating from my program.

 

Go to the quality program. You will be able to get a job anywhere in the country when you are done. That's my 2 cents.

[KCMA79]

Go with quality it will serve you better in the long run. Quality trumps friends, location ect. You are going to be so busy you won't have much time for anything other than school.

[winterallsummer]

Man I am in the same boat with Pace (a good program in an awesome location) vs PCOM (an awesome program in a good location). I am really leaning towards Pace, which is in NYC, because I want to do rotations there. I like their didactic program as well but was not blown away by it. PCOM on the other hand... oh man, they are so organized, confident, really on point. Their rotations are all over the US, however, and I'd miss out on the once in a lifetime opportunity to learn medicine in NYC (PCOM is in Philly).

 

Anyone have input for me? Sorry to piggy back on the OP's thread but we are in very similar shoes.

[Seijou]

Man I am in the same boat with Pace (a good program in an awesome location) vs PCOM (an awesome program in a good location). I am really leaning towards Pace, which is in NYC, because I want to do rotations there. I like their didactic program as well but was not blown away by it. PCOM on the other hand... oh man, they are so organized, confident, really on point. Their rotations are all over the US, however, and I'd miss out on the once in a lifetime opportunity to learn medicine in NYC (PCOM is in Philly).

 

Anyone have input for me? Sorry to piggy back on the OP's thread but we are in very similar shoes.

 

I'm far from being in your guy's shoes... (I am submitting my application in 2013 and hope to begin PA school in 2014), but I've been giving school(s) and location(s) a lot of thought.

 

For me, I think the location is more important. I'm not single anymore, so I can't be gone all day, everyday like the old times. I have responsibilities that I worry about - Helping around the house, taking care of my dog, etc. It's all about responsibilities now. Sometimes I giggle at the people who don't work or can spend all day/every day studying - I wish I had savored those days :;;D:.

 

I'm also really grateful that my other half has been so supportive and willing to move across the country for me to pursue this career. However, I have set some guidelines for myself as far as location. Of course I want a good school, in fact, I want a great school! (Who doesn't?) But I also want a safe, friendly neighborhood for my other-half. I also need to be in a place where she has an opportunity to find a decent job with her background. I think this would make a world of difference for us. And I would gladly attend a school that is "not the best" if all of the other parts of my life fall into place, and my other half is happy.

[vaston]

I'm also really grateful that my other half has been so supportive and willing to move across the country for me to pursue this career. However, I have set some guidelines for myself as far as location. Of course I want a good school, in fact, I want a great school! (Who doesn't?) But I also want a safe, friendly neighborhood for my other-half. I also need to be in a place where she has an opportunity to find a decent job with her background. I think this would make a world of difference for us. And I would gladly attend a school that is "not the best" if all of the other parts of my life fall into place, and my other half is happy.

 

You can find this just about anywhere. Good friend of mine went to the Yale PA Program. If you don't already know, Yale is in a horrible area. The surrounding neighborhoods are awful. He moved his wife and 3 kids there anyway (there are many of us in your same situation BTW). They found a safe, quiet place only a few minutes from campus. His wife ended up loving it so much she did not want to leave and to this day wants to move back. Quality school, not great location, but made it their home.

 

I feel bad for individuals that are not willing to uproot their lives because their significant other doesn't think they could handle the change. I was raised in a military family and I whole heartedly believe that moving to new locations combined with forcing myself to make new friends and have new experiences is the reason why I am able to handle life transitions easily. I encourage everyone I know to experience a change like this. It will challenge them like nothing else, and it will help them to grow as a person. It happened with me, it has happened with my wife and it has also been very apparent with my children. They are stronger people now than when we moved away.

 

Many will not agree with me. I get that. But that is how I feel about it. It's my opinion. And opinion is, by definition, a personal view.

[Seijou]

You can find this just about anywhere. Good friend of mine went to the Yale PA Program. If you don't already know, Yale is in a horrible area. The surrounding neighborhoods are awful. He moved his wife and 3 kids there anyway (there are many of us in your same situation BTW). They found a safe, quiet place only a few minutes from campus. His wife ended up loving it so much she did not want to leave and to this day wants to move back. Quality school, not great location, but made it their home.

 

I feel bad for individuals that are not willing to uproot their lives because their significant other doesn't think they could handle the change. I was raised in a military family and I whole heartedly believe that moving to new locations combined with forcing myself to make new friends and have new experiences is the reason why I am able to handle life transitions easily. I encourage everyone I know to experience a change like this. It will challenge them like nothing else, and it will help them to grow as a person. It happened with me, it has happened with my wife and it has also been very apparent with my children. They are stronger people now than when we moved away.

 

Many will not agree with me. I get that. But that is how I feel about it. It's my opinion. And opinion is, by definition, a personal view.

 

While I wholeheartedly agree with you, I think you are only looking at a very positive side of the situation. Tough situations can humble you and make you a better person in many different ways - absolutely, but I think every person(s) are different (and it wouldn't be fair to take a situation and apply it to a different set of people).

 

I grew up in a very poor area where crime was common and poverty is apparent, and I really feel it humbled the crap out of me, but I wouldn't wish anyone else go through some of the things that I had to see/deal with.

 

A few friends of mine have parents who are MDs and I always try to pick their brains. One thing that I commonly hear is that while in medschool, there was a tendency for their classmates to get divorced (this is just a generalization based on stories and conversations I've had with various people). This is no shocker for me, but I won't treat PA school any differently. It's a serious commitment and (IMO) the way you handle it will be a big factor in your success.

 

With that said, why not give yourself the best chance to succeed? This is a very simple concept. I understand hardship of being away from family, friends, etc - and having to look after yourself in a new environment, but it's not something I would choose for fun! I'm going to give myself the best chance to succeed by looking for a place that I (and my family) would love to live for a few years, it would be so much less stressful and so much better my family in the long run. I'll focus on what I really want to do... (medicine).

[courtney.luoma]

I chose good school over location, moved across country and was employed within 2 months of graduation.

also depends how good the good school is and how bad the bad school is.

some schools I would never attend and some I would never turn down.

 

Can you tell me what schools you would never attend and why???

[EMEDPA]

Can you tell me what schools you would never attend and why???

any school that does not require prior hce or any school that requires volunteering only. any program that can not provide rotations for all its students. a good program builds on a foundation of prior experience. if a class doesn't have any you end up producing weaker graduates because you waste time learning basics instead of advanced concepts. I don't care about pance scores. I could teach almost anyone to pass pance in 1 month without any clinicals. I care about performance on rotations and as a 1st yr pa, 1st pt, 1st day.

schools I wouldn't turn down(in no order):

duke, u.wa, drexel, stony brook, stanford, sjvc, rcc, GW, yale, emory, pcom. I'm sure there are others but those come to mind.

[vaston]

With that said, why not give yourself the best chance to succeed? This is a very simple concept. I understand hardship of being away from family, friends, etc - and having to look after yourself in a new environment, but it's not something I would choose for fun! I'm going to give myself the best chance to succeed by looking for a place that I (and my family) would love to live for a few years, it would be so much less stressful and so much better my family in the long run. I'll focus on what I really want to do... (medicine).

 

You make some excellent points. You're right, in the end moving to a new location is not worth it if it means sacrificing your marriage. I am one of the lucky ones that has a fantastic marriage. My wife and I communicate openly about anything and everything. She came into this knowing fully what she would experience. The fact that we had been married for 7 years before I started PA school helped the situation greatly. While it was very hard for my wife at first, our marriage is now stronger than it has ever been. Yes, some people get divorced during school. I'm willing to bet that most of the divorces that happen in grad/med school are from marriages that are less than 2-3 years old (they are still learning to deal with each other.....). Based on the difficulty of most PA programs, divorce may or may not be due to relocation stresses. I'm sure they do play a part of it though. BUT..... if you have a strong marriage to a spouse that is ready and willing to take this journey with you, your marriage will come out of it stronger than ever IF you are willing to put in the time and effort to make it work.

 

Bottom line for me? I knew my marriage could handle it. I also knew the strength that comes from experiencing change. For me, my wife and my kids it was absolutely worth moving for the higher quality program vs the one that was closest to family/friends. Obviously my experience does not apply to everyone.

[winterallsummer]

EMEDPA, which would you pick between PCOM and Pace (in lower Manhattan rotations all over NY)?

 

Also what do you think about the systems approach? And how big of a difference is there between a school that overs full cadaver (PCOM) vs just prosected dissection (Pace) though at NYU?

[mackjacks]

Great discussions and valid points by everyone, keep 'em coming! I'm in a similar situation deciding between two schools (hoping I'll hear from my top choice and not have to decide between 2 & 3!) so this thread is really meaningful for me.

[EMEDPA]

EMEDPA, which would you pick between PCOM and Pace (in lower Manhattan rotations all over NY)?

 

Also what do you think about the systems approach? And how big of a difference is there between a school that overs full cadaver (PCOM) vs just prosected dissection (Pace) though at NYU?

I don't know anything about pace. I know pcom is a strong program.

I like a systems approach and like problem based learning style teaching.

I would choose full cadaver if available.

[LESH]

I am thrilled to post that I have been accepted to two PA schools this year, but I'm now struggling to choose between the two. One is in a location I love, with friends nearby, and in the region I'm hoping to work in after graduation.

 

The other is closer to family but far removed from friends, and I'm really not excited about the idea of living or working in the area. However, I'm more impressed with their program (their facilities, PANCE pass rate, faculty...). Any thoughts on which of these factors is more important?

 

Where is the best support system for your family? Where your friends are or where your family is? PA school is hard on families in the best of circumstances IMHO. I would recommend going where the least "wear and tear" on your family will occur. Doesn't mean you have to stay there when your done. Maybe you can arrange clinical rotations in the area you want to eventually work. Good luck in your future PA endeavors.

LesH

[LESH]

schools I wouldn't turn down(in no order):

duke, u.wa, drexel, stony brook, stanford, sjvc, rcc, GW, yale, emory, pcom. I'm sure there are others but those come to mind.

 

Thanks EMEDPA. That means a lot.

LesH

[winterallsummer]

EMEDPA, but do you think getting to do clinicals in NYC would be a huge advantage? I mean, PCOM's rotations are all over the nation, but I don't think it could compare to the patient diversity you'd see in NYC. Thoughts?

[johnwaite81]

A lot of people can offer a lot of great advice (as demonstrated in this thread thus far), but ultimately the decision is up to you. I was very fortunate to have been accepted by my first-choice school, however my gut told me early on that it was going to happen. And something we've been taught frequently in our first semester of school is that "even if all your labs are indicating there is nothing wrong with your patient, if your gut tells you something is wrong, then something is probably wrong."

 

I think that this applies to your situation because it really sounds like your gut is leading you to one school (where your friends are and where you want to work) while your logical brain is telling you to attend the other (the one closer to your family)...and yes, I was in the exact same situation grappling between my gut (my first-choice and a great program) and logic (an allegedly better and shorter program). I'm not going to tell you where to go, but what I will tell you is that I am extremely happy I followed my gut.

 

One more thing I would like to mention, however, is that when people say you won't have much time for socializing I disagree...at least during the didactic portion of school. Then again, I'm a work hard, play hard kind of person, so I hit the books pretty hard during the week so I can have time to go to football games and hang out with friends and classmates on the weekends. During the clinical rotations I know it's different, but if you want to socialize you'll make the time.

 

I hope that what I say helps you in your decision-making process. I know it's not an easy decision to make, but kudos to you for being accepted into at least two programs...that's awesome!

[sclem]

Thank you for all of the great advice. I haven't made a decision yet, but this thread has definitely helped guide my thinking. Best wishes to those of you making similar decisions!