RURALMED Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 As I was doing some research for my capstone project, I came across this hierarchy in a trauma journal. Although I don't like the word mid-level, I think it is pretty accurate otherwise. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primadonna22274 Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Looks fairly accurate to me. Notice the fluidity on the right. If anything I think it's generous that if shows the senior MLP (hate that term, I know) on near-parity with the fellow. That's pretty complimentary. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RURALMED Posted December 28, 2015 Author Share Posted December 28, 2015 Looks fairly accurate to me. Notice the fluidity on the right. If anything I think it's generous that if shows the senior MLP (hate that term, I know) on near-parity with the fellow. That's pretty complimentary. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk I agree and was quite surprised to be honest. Ps. Have I ever mention how incredible it is to have you as a liaison and advocate for both professions? Thanks for all you do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted December 28, 2015 Moderator Share Posted December 28, 2015 mid level MLP wow is that confusing would agree that senior PA = fellow might be a bit of a complement (fellows are boarded/eligible surgeons already....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterallsummer Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 Senior PA can equate with medical attending. However we never receive same surgical training as physicians. Otherwise agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delco714 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 mid level MLP wow is that confusing would agree that senior PA = fellow might be a bit of a complement (fellows are boarded/eligible surgeons already....) Most non trauma surgeons would not fair well in the trauma setting.. Being as they are a fellow in trauma..a highly experienced trauma PA would equate quite well as far as trauma knowledge and that such goes.. I've seen PA in surgery far better than I with skills highly complimentary to their surgeon.. A relatively accurate chart it appears Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted December 30, 2015 Moderator Share Posted December 30, 2015 Most non trauma surgeons would not fair well in the trauma setting.. Being as they are a fellow in trauma..a highly experienced trauma PA would equate quite well as far as trauma knowledge and that such goes.. I've seen PA in surgery far better than I with skills highly complimentary to their surgeon.. A relatively accurate chart it appears As someone else points out, in Medicine a PA can function pretty much like an Attending, but not in surgery - Harder to delineate a fellow, but to be a fellow you will have A LOT more training then just any PA out there, this is not to put PA's down, but just a fact. They will of have 5 years of 80+ hour weeks - >20,000 hours of formal training. A highly experienced PA will likely be close to the same, with less formal training, and a lot more real world experience and OJT. As typical I would not hesitate to have either one care for myself or my family.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delco714 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Ventana I think you're making a very similar point as I did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andersenpa Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Let's clarify- In surgery there are PAs that can function at attending level, just not in all aspects of surgery. Meaning- PAs will never be trained or credentialed to perform independent operations, but they will provide autonomous (independent for all intents and purposes) perioperative care. So the PA-attending equivalence is not universal, but it does exist in certain aspects. There is also nothing wrong with suggesting an experienced PA is on par with a fellow in a given specialty. I'm surprised that PAs on this forum would equivocate on such a question! Have you lost your confidence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delco714 Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Let's clarify- In surgery there are PAs that can function at attending level, just not in all aspects of surgery. Meaning- PAs will never be trained or credentialed to perform independent operations, but they will provide autonomous (independent for all intents and purposes) perioperative care. So the PA-attending equivalence is not universal, but it does exist in certain aspects. There is also nothing wrong with suggesting an experienced PA is on par with a fellow in a given specialty. I'm surprised that PAs on this forum would equivocate on such a question! Have you lost your confidence? Extremely well said and you one upped me on explaining my own thoughts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted January 1, 2016 Moderator Share Posted January 1, 2016 I guess I see the attending Surgeon as the one that does surgery...... And then other people help manage the patient I agree that short of the surgery an experienced PA can do everything a fellow can! J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterallsummer Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 I'm not sure anyone is challenging the chart. I think we all agree with it but have pointed out that a PA can't operate autonomously so if it had said intensivist instead of surgeon no one would even raise the point. A PA with as many hours of training as an attending - no one is challenging that we aren't just as skilled and capable. I merely am pointing out that we can't completely equate with a surgical attending unless PAs were allowed to operate autonomously and go through that learning curve of full responsibility. If you put a medical specialty instead of surgeon (and pull the word mid level) then I don't think anyone would disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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