Neuro1 Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 I would be interested in everyone's thoughts regarding this proposal that I saw for the first time yesterday..... (Hope this link works) http://nurse-practitioners-and-physician-assistants.advanceweb.com/Features/Articles/PA-Recertification-Access-to-Care.aspx I don't know about everyone else here, but I am fundamentally opposed..... Anyone elses thoughts? Apologies if someone else has a thread on this topic, if so, please link me. I am a bit upset at the whole thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dm123 Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Typical of the bureaucratic model. Create more work=higher fees=more employees=more tiers of management=fatter paychecks for upper management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medic25 Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 I am completely opposed to the whole concept. The thought of adding some busy-work QI project every two years on top of CME requirements and periodic testing is ridiculous. If you want to adjust the requirements I can see adding some specialty specific CME hours, but a subjective project is insanity. Who is going to sit and review all of these projects from the thousands of PA's recertifying annually? Does the NCCPA plan on raising our fees in order to hire a group of reviewers? I just don't see this improving my clinical practice in any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acebecker Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 I think the idea of CME only recertification has merit, but the QIP and Self Assessment are pretty sketchy. I agree with the above that it sounds like busy work. Not something I want to do, for sure, and I doubt many other PAs would be interested, either. I just don't see the improvement in Pt care access they're touting. The article talks about PAs who study 80 hours for recert exams - this only affects Pt care if PAs are dumping their patient load in order to study for the exam - but who does that? Most of us study on our own time/after hours or take leave time to attend review conferences. Why fix it if it isn't broken? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aprillh Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 I am really getting tired of the NCCPA exercising their overbearing "rights" on us. I hope everyone who reads this thread will shoot an email to the NCCPA letting them know how they feel. If not, then we are just their pets, succumbing to whatever changes they deem fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aprillh Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 And to show I am putting my money where my mouth is, here is my email to the NCCPA. I sent it to nccpa@nccpa.net and specialtycaq@nccpa.net. I encourage others to do the same. I have heard that the NCCPA board is open to our feedback regarding the maintenance of certification changes they are considering. I truly hope this is the case. If so, I am sure that the only changes that would be made are changing the PANRE to every 10 years. Practicing PAs do not need or want any more busy work than they already have. I cannot imagine how doing a special project every two years is going to help me in clinical practice. For one, my supervising physician has been grandfathered in and she is not required to do any special projects. The utopian idea of the PA doing their project with their supervising physician is a moot point in many cases. Number two, I practice cosmetic dermatology. Can you tell me what kind of special projects I would be doing? I keep current on my CME requirements; actually I study more than is required because I like my specialty. The last thing I want is busy work by my certification organization. Considering that more than half of PAs specialize, most of us are feeling the PANRE is outdated and archaic anyway. Many PAs are unsatisfied with the NCCPA, the certification process and the recent scoring guffaw that was just corrected. I don't think adding more work for us to do is going to help matters. In case you haven't seen this article, I will provide the link. Please be sure to read the comments at the end. Most of us agree. http://nurse-practitioners-and-physician-assistants.advanceweb.com/Editorial/Comments/Comments.aspx?CID=246214&URL=http%3a%2f%2fnurse-practitioners-and-physician-assistants.advanceweb.com%2fEditorial%2fContent%2fEditorial.aspx%3fCFM%3d198406 [TABLE] [TR] [TD][TABLE] [TR] [TD=class: ViewComment]I agree with the comments above. I do not mind extending the test taking cycle to every 10 years, but I am opposed to the Quality Improvement projects that will be required in order to do this. I barely have time at work for a 5 minute lunch break; I definitely do not have time to perform Quality Improvement projects at work, and I know my employer would not assist me in implementing them. [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD] [TABLE] [TR] [TD=class: ViewCommentDate]Chris [/TD] [TD=class: ViewCommentDate]November 11, 2011[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD=class: ViewCommentDate] [/TD] [TD=class: ViewCommentDate, align: right][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD=class: ViewCommentInfo][/TD] [TD=class: ViewCommentInfo][/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][TABLE] [TR] [TD=class: ViewComment] I agree with Jonathan and Rolando. No extra projects or SA or QIC's! I would rather just take the recert exam every 10 years and continue 100 CME's every 2 years. There is enough time and expense involved in taking BLS, ACLS, etc., and I don't have time or desire to add more projects. Let NCCPA know your opinion. I will email them about NO SA, NO QIC, but agree with re-cert every ten years, with continuation of current CME requirement. [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD] [TABLE] [TR] [TD=class: ViewCommentDate]Paula , PA-C[/TD] [TD=class: ViewCommentDate]November 10, 2011[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD=class: ViewCommentDate]Watersmeet, MI[/TD] [TD=class: ViewCommentDate, align: right][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD=class: ViewCommentInfo][/TD] [TD=class: ViewCommentInfo][/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][TABLE] [TR] [TD=class: ViewComment] 100 units of CME q2 years, then add lic's, BLS, ACLS, ATLS, Ctrl'd RX cert (I'm sure I'm missing some other pre-req/qualifier...and it's still not enough? I move we extend the Re-cert Board Exam to q 10yrs as every PA continues to prove themselves not only on their jobs but constantly studying to keep all of our lic's current. Do I have a 2nd? A 3rd? [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD] [TABLE] [TR] [TD=class: ViewCommentDate]jonathan benak, PA-C, CDCR[/TD] [TD=class: ViewCommentDate]November 10, 2011[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD=class: ViewCommentDate]jamestown, CA[/TD] [TD=class: ViewCommentDate, align: right][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD=class: ViewCommentInfo][/TD] [TD=class: ViewCommentInfo][/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][TABLE] [TR] [TD=class: ViewComment] I absolutely think this is a horrible idea, we are alway trying to copy physicians, however we are not!!!! We are physician assistants, and I disagree with the average working hours. All my fellow PAs work more than 50 hr weeks, alot work 2 jobs. WE DO NOT HAVE THE TIME TO COMPLETE EXTRA PROJECTS!!! This is another way for the NCCPA to collect more fees..... [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD] [TABLE] [TR] [TD=class: ViewCommentDate]Rolando [/TD] [TD=class: ViewCommentDate]November 10, 2011[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD=class: ViewCommentDate]Houston, TX[/TD] [TD=class: ViewCommentDate, align: right][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD=class: ViewCommentInfo][/TD] [TD=class: ViewCommentInfo][/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Its mastabatory and existence justification... on the part of the NCCPA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted November 11, 2011 Moderator Share Posted November 11, 2011 I would be ok with an option for continue q6 yr testing or 10 yr with project for those who want it but not in favor of 10 yr with no other option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dm123 Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Going to 10 year, as opposed to 6 year would cut NCCPA income, not something likely to happen without some other income generating means. Food for thought: Sine June, there is no Pathway II. My understanding is PANCE & PANRE questions are now pulled from the same bank of questions. The only difference is the number of questions on the test. CMEs do not need to be maintained to take the PANCE. Why not just skip the cost and time of registering CMEs and just take the PANCE come recert time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Great question... Is the cost to test the same...??? Problem will be that many/most states require CME for Licensure. So while you could simply just save the expense and just take the PANCE q 5-6yrs... the state may still wanna see CMEs to renew your license. But then again... if I'm overstanding you correctly... you are saying to continue to get CMEs to satisfy the state requirements just don't send NCCPA any cash to "log" them. Only send them cash q 5-6 yrs to re take the PANCE. Am I tracking...??? Contrarian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dm123 Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Great question...Is the cost to test the same...??? Problem will be that many/most states require CME for Licensure. So while you could simply just save the expense and just take the PANCE q 5-6yrs... the state may still wanna see CMEs to renew your license. But then again... if I'm overstanding you correctly... you are saying to continue to get CMEs to satisfy the state requirements just don't send NCCPA any cash to "log" them. Only send them cash q 5-6 yrs to re take the PANCE. Am I tracking...??? Contrarian Yes. I suppose every state would be different. New graduates can get a license with zero CMEs. Personally, I'd still get them just to be responsible and educated. NCCPA would probably come up with some sort of rule to close this perceived loophole but closure would help reinforce the perception that certification is more about money than a desire to protect the public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neuro1 Posted November 12, 2011 Author Share Posted November 12, 2011 Well, I am a bit worried that this is going to slide under the wire and get passed. I am a bit concerned here At they way they are glossing over the project thing and emphasizing the "unlimited test taking" thing (which is sure to be appealing to many) Surely the author of this article ( Bernard J. Stuetz, MA, PA-C ) CAN'T believe his hype..... ""What Can PAs Do? The PAs on the NCCPA's board of directors represent us and our interests for improved patient care and increased access to care. As the full board begins its deliberations on the MOC process, including the 10-year cycle, you can share your ideas, opinions and desires with them. The input of you and your supervising physician are extremely important. Communicate with the NCCPA and tell them now that you agree with the 10-year MOC cycle, starting in 2012, with unlimited test taking (for the SA and 10-year tests) and grandfathering-in of PAs as BOMs currently do for physicians. As Benjamin Franklin reportedly said upon signing the Declaration of Independence, "We must indeed all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately."18 """ *italics mine* ********************************************************************************** I think the majority opinion speaks for me as well. I, personally, am too busy with my own work and with studying (on my OWN TIME) for my Panre, which I will be taking next week. I work in a Surgical Specialty and I am very bothered by the fact that the NCCPA wants more of my time and money.... they really can't be that transparent, can they ???? And a project ???? REALLY ??? What am I, back in Middle School ???? Who am I proving something to? My supervising MD >>??? He is the one who knows that I do a stellar job every day, he doesn't need to see me do a project to know that I know what I am doing each and every day, and neither do my patients. This isn't time saving, it's time (and money) wasting, and guess what? My BOSS pays for my CME, Recertification, and NCCPA fees. I am sure he will be thrilled to find that the NCCPA has come up with a new way to bilk him of even more money, while I study like a bad dog to try and pass a test composed of questions, 99 % of which have NOTHING TO DO WITH MY SPECIALTY..... Even though I am already Board Certified..... Can we really let them do this to us? Do we get a say in this ? not sure. Editing to add Another Quote: "My recent unpublished survey of PAs in internal medicine shows the average PA studies approximately 80 hours for the Physician Assistant National Certifying Examination (PANRE). More than 14,000 PAs will have recertified in 2011. PAs worked an average of 44 hours per week in 2009.15 In 2011, then, PAs could have increased access to care by working more than 50,000 hours if the 10-year MOC cycle were in place." Bernard J. Stuetz, MA, PA-C I don't know what he's talking about here..... I agree with the poster above, who said: "this only affects Pt care if PAs are dumping their patient load in order to study for the exam - but who does that? Most of us study on our own time/after hours or take leave time to attend review conferences. Why fix it if it isn't broken? " Acebecker My boss might have a thing or two to say if I were studying during work hours :-) He is generous, and provides a week of CME allowance, so we can schedule for CME and use that week per year to study / earn CME. We can do extra on our own time. Oh, and for those who think that the NCCPA is reading / responding to our emails, etc? I sent this communication to them the other day (I take full responsibility for the rude tone of this email, and the utter lack of dignity and respect which I sincerely hope does not reflect on my fellow PA colleagues, but I was ticked...) To NCCPA "Hey ! Light Bulb !!! We just thought of a new way to make more money from these sucker PA's !!! And guess WHAT ?!?!?!? there's nothing they can do about it ...... heh heh heh Thanks a LOT !!! " I signed my name. Now, that was on a morning that I ALSO sent a communication to Kohl's asking to be taken off their SPAM list and also to say that I tried to click on a link they provided, which didn't work... I received not one, but TWO emails back from THEM right away. One, to apologize that the link didn't work. The other, to assure me that I would be taken off their list. These were not form emails either, someone actually read them and responded... THAT'S what I would expect *and am not getting* from NCCPA.... " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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