Foreign coursework and interview advice

[MrsRonSwanson]

Hi folks,

 

I realize this is a long post and I'm going to go on a bit of a rant, but I would really appreciate any feedback and advice, especially from people in similar situations. My background...This was my first cycle applying and I applied to 11 programs. I've had two interviews (rejected from one), have one at OHSU coming up, and am waiting to hear from five programs. Stats:3.66 sGPA, 3.75 cGPA, BA in bio, 4500 hours HCE as a CNA in nursing homes and currently in a MICU, also do geriatrics research at the U of MN, do unpaid malaria research which will be published soon, 14 hours shadowing, volunteer... I realize applying to PA school is beyond competitive and I've learned a great deal about the process this cycle and I feel I am a competitive applicant. I like to plan for the worst possible situation, so I'm starting to plan for the next application cycle. I'm taking abnormal psych, developmental psych, and nutrition in the spring, and biochem and pathophys in the summer. I'll also take the GRE, continue to volunteer, get HCE, do my research, and shadow PAs when I can.

 

Now on to my queries. I have a master's in epidemiology from a school in England. Basically, I graduated a year early from college, worked my butt off and saved money since I was 15, and decided that I wanted to move to London to study and see what would happen. This is going to sound like I'm making excuses and being lazy, but I would really like advice on how to handle this. I found that compared to my time in undergrad in the States, the UK education system was much different in that the expectations of students are much higher. I found that "average" over there was perfectly fine and it was very, very difficult to get what would be considered an A here. The program director had a chat with me to let me know that as an American student in the UK system, I should avoid equating my marks to American letter grades because they aren't the same. Furthermore, my classmates were amazing and had tons of experience with the CDC, WHO, and MSF, but of course, my assessments were compared to theirs during marking. I was a bit out of my league. There was also a disagreement between three facilitators/graders and two of them took it out on my group's mark. Anyway, I earned a 2.8 or 2.9 cGPA on the UK scale. To make things worse, I had an "accredited" foreign coursework evaluation done and they put me at cGPA 2.7 on the US scale. Now, the evaluation was BS because they didn't equate anything differently.

 

I know, this is making me sound like a whiny idiot and I hate to even post this. The good news is that foreign coursework is not calculated in GPAs in CASPA, the bad thing is the BS evaluation is there for them to see anyway. My first question is, how should I handle this during an interview. In the first interview, I told them it was a great experience, but I found the education standards different over there and having no public health experience put me at a disadvantage, but I still learned a lot. I didn't mention the evaluation or disagreement between the graders who gave my group a poor mark. Those interviewing me weren't even aware of my foreign coursework, but I wanted to bring it up so they didn't say "man, what an idiot!" later when they saw it. My second interview went like this, "you struggled in London, what was the problem?" I replied with the same answer as in the first interview, just explaining the differences in education systems. I guess I'm at a loss for how to handle this because it turned into such a mess and I sound like I'm making excuses. However, the truth is it was very difficult and I really feel that no one can judge it unless they studied at LSHTM. Americans tend to get caught up in As (myself included) and it wasn't like that over there. That's the bottom line. Also, why would I take out $25,000 in loans and move to one of the most expensive cities in the world without knowing anyone there and screw around and get poor grades? It doesn't make sense.

 

Now for the last. There's always that point in an interview when they ask, "do you have any questions?" Now, if I do have questions about the program, I will certainly ask, but I've found that the current students floating around between sessions and at the socials are great resources, so I get all my questions answered through them. Since I don't have any questions about the program, I want to take that opportunity to show that I am truly interested in becoming a PA, so I'll ask the interviewer what their opinion is on the name change or a move toward a doctorate instead of a master's or how they handle difficult patients (wanting antibiotics for a cold or telling the PA what is wrong with them because they read it on webMD) or what their interactions with NPs have been because I know the prevalence of PAs and NPs varies by geographic region. I ask these because I really want to know their opinion and because I want to demonstrate that I've done some research. These went over really well at my first interview (I think so at least), but TOTALLY backfired at my second. I said something along the lines of, "I know NPs are moving toward a doctorate, do you see this happening in the future for PA education?" Later in the interview he said, "It seems like you're still searching, with that NP question." That isn't how I intended the question.

 

Anyway, what do you folks think about asking your interviewers questions about hot topics when they ask if you have any questions? I realize this is a bananas post, and I truly appreciate any feedback.

[Just Steve]

In the world of interviewing I realize that it's a two way street. They want to get to know you, and you want to get to know them. However, asking for personal opinions of individuals may not focus on the school as much as it focuses on that particular interviewer. That sort of question may be great for a mixer/meet and greet but I am not sure I'd fire that off in the middle of an interview. Anything that you ask them opens the door for the question to come back to you. If your own opinion stands in stark contrast to the interviewer, will that set you up for rejection a la "we don't want this non conformist" or will it bump you up on the list with "we like free thinkers and glad they have formed their own opinion." You just don't know if it'll help or hurt you until it's too late.

 

Perhaps you can use that time to confirm the rumors that you have heard from other students. For example: "prior to submitting my application I contacted a few of your current and former students to get a better understanding of your program (shows initiative and due diligence). During these conversations I discovered this school has a strong focus on xxxxxxxxxx (whatever that is). I am interested in what the school is doing to help enhance medical access/research/development/treatment (use whatever fits)"

 

This style of questioning will help clear up any bad rumors or poor information, it shows you have been doing your research, and are ensuring that the school is a good fit for you. I would avoid, unless asked, any statement along the lines of "I'm really excited about xxxxxxxxx as it fits perfectly with my own values and beliefs". I vote to avoid because I think it would be really tough to say that line, even if it's true, and not appear to be a brownnoser.

 

As for your other bits of your post...my eyes glazed over..sorry

[david89]

In the world of interviewing I realize that it's a two way street. They want to get to know you, and you want to get to know them. However, asking for personal opinions of individuals may not focus on the school as much as it focuses on that particular interviewer. That sort of question may be great for a mixer/meet and greet but I am not sure I'd fire that off in the middle of an interview. Anything that you ask them opens the door for the question to come back to you. If your own opinion stands in stark contrast to the interviewer, will that set you up for rejection a la "we don't want this non conformist" or will it bump you up on the list with "we like free thinkers and glad they have formed their own opinion." You just don't know if it'll help or hurt you until it's too late.

 

Perhaps you can use that time to confirm the rumors that you have heard from other students. For example: "prior to submitting my application I contacted a few of your current and former students to get a better understanding of your program (shows initiative and due diligence). During these conversations I discovered this school has a strong focus on xxxxxxxxxx (whatever that is). I am interested in what the school is doing to help enhance medical access/research/development/treatment (use whatever fits)"

 

This style of questioning will help clear up any bad rumors or poor information, it shows you have been doing your research, and are ensuring that the school is a good fit for you. I would avoid, unless asked, any statement along the lines of "I'm really excited about xxxxxxxxx as it fits perfectly with my own values and beliefs". I vote to avoid because I think it would be really tough to say that line, even if it's true, and not appear to be a brownnoser.

 

As for your other bits of your post...my eyes glazed over..sorry

 

Hi just a quick question, you advise to avoid statement like I'm really excited about xxxxxxxxx as it fits perfectly with my own values and beliefs" but doesn't statement like this reinforce your reason of choosing this particular school and it shows that you've done some research about the program you're interviewing for? :=D:

Thank you

[Just Steve]

Hi just a quick question, you advise to avoid statement like I'm really excited about xxxxxxxxx as it fits perfectly with my own values and beliefs" but doesn't statement like this reinforce your reason of choosing this particular school and it shows that you've done some research about the program you're interviewing for? :=D:

Thank you

 

It may reinforce your reason, but how many people do you know will say whatever it takes to get into a school?

 

For example...a person is from a big city, applies to a dozen schools, finally lands an interview to a smallish school in a smallish town who's primary focus is to train rural health care providers. During the interview, that person breaks out with "I am really interested and excited to work as a primary care provider in rural America." How believable do you think that statement is?

 

If you are truly on board with the direction of the school, aka: have similar values and goals, then your PS, job experience, and extracurricular activities can help illustrate that picture much better than parroting some key phrase.

 

A big city person shows up for an interview for Medex in Yakima, Wa. During the course of the interview, they are asked "so where do you see yourself practicing in five years?" They answer what they think they are supposed to answer..."a small town family practice clinic". Then the real questions start..."your application shows that you have done no shadowing or work in a rural or under served community. You are from Los Angles, and grew up there. What small town did you have in mind? What state? Where do you draw your experience upon that helped you form your long term goal?"

 

Makes sense? It is better to keep those cliche statements to yourself, let your past life show them that you match their goals. Once you start dropping those phrases it is really hard to believe it's sincere.

[Beorp]

Though situation on explaining London. All of us would naturally just jump to saying you didn't work hard enough, but you make the fair point here that most people have not studied there. Unfortunately, I think faulting anyone other than yourself in an interview could seem like you're just making excuses (even if there are valid differences in the systems). If I were in your shoes and were asked about it, I would probably try to include the following points in my answer: (adapt to your own use so it is all true!)

- living overseas for the first time, young and possibly not as well focused on studies (or didn't take advantage of the extra learning resources available when times got tough) [The point being - you've matured since then]

- studying at one of the foremost tropical medicine/public health schools in the world (if you were at LSHTM, I'm not clear on it from your post, but I'm sure you can name some claim to fame of your school), then realized that everyone else came in with a much stronger practical background [but emphasize that having classmates with these diverse backgrounds allowed you to learn from their vast experiences and isn't something you're bitter about]

- despite your performance not living up to your own standards (I think it is important to say that to show you're acknowledging that the marks are low), emphasize how you have been able to still take what you learn (and maybe applied it to your malaria research to then end on a positive and hope that they will ask about that next!)

 

That is how I would try to address it, but I'm sure there are countless other options. Best of luck.

[greenmood]

I guess I don't understand why you can't just leave off at what an amazing experience it was to live/study/play over there. If they ask why you seemed to struggle, don't make it a big deal. Come up with a nice, concise answer that summarizes your experience - something along the lines of "the focus of their education and grading system is quite different in London; while my grades appear to have suffered because of the conversion to American scoring, I really learned a lot and feel that I met the challenge of adapting to a different culture."

 

You aren't making excuses, but you aren't avoiding the question either. And you've changed the subject from grades to cultural acclimation... you give them a ready avenue for follow-up questions about how you adjusted to life there, which applies to PA school.

 

I agree with JustSteve about staying away from personal questions of the interviewer. At best, you've strayed from learning valuable information about the school (in favor of somewhat pointless trivia about a single faculty member). At worst, you sound like a suck up who'll say anything to get in. Let the interviewer bring up those topics - if he/she wants to know your opinion on the name change (unlikely) or to ferret out how much you understand of the history of the profession (more likely), you will be asked.

[MrsRonSwanson]

Great points. Thanks folks.