bloo4107 Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Hello, I understand that most need a bachelor's or master's to become a PA. But what about associate's? I found some schools offer it. If completed, can I still land a job? All courses, certification, etc, is all the same. Just the degree is not advanced. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICRob0351 Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Can you please cite the schools where you've heard there is an ASSOCIATES program for PA? I think you may be mistaken, or may have misunderstood the requirements. As far as I have ever heard there are no associates PA programs, and in the next few years most PA programs will be masters programs only. It would be nearly impossible to become a PA given only a two year associate degree. Your best bet is to just try and get your bachelor's degree, complete all your prerequisite courses, and apply through CASPA. Good luck. P.S. You should probably move this post to the Pre-PA forum and remove it from the professional PA forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LESH Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 I think you may be mistaken, or may have misunderstood the requirements. As far as I have ever heard there are no associates PA programs, and in the next few years most PA programs will be masters programs only. It would be nearly impossible to become a PA given only a two year associate degree. The OP is not mistaken. Don't believe everything you hear. There are Certificate, AS and BS programs. Programs are not required to become MS programs until 2021. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICRob0351 Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 The OP is not mistaken. Don't believe everything you hear. There are Certificate, AS and BS programs. Programs are not required to become MS programs until 2021. Wow, so an individual doesn't even have to have his or her bachelor's to become a PA??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
physasst Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Wow, so an individual doesn't even have to have his or her bachelor's to become a PA??? Nope, while I had my bachelors, and have completed 2 masters now....my PA training was with an AAS degree. Most people in my class DID NOT have a bachelors, many had 2 year degrees prior. 2 year RN's, 1 year paramedic training, 2 year Respiratory Therapy degrees, etc. I started practice at a premier academic medical institution with an associates degree. 2 years is 2 years is 2 years.... IOW, PA training is 2 years...whether it is as part of a Bachelors, a separate Master's, or an Associates....doesn't matter. Personally, I think we need more of the Associates programs. For a number of reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
physasst Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Nope, while I had my bachelors, and have completed 2 masters now....my PA training was with an AAS degree. Most people in my class DID NOT have a bachelors, many had 2 year degrees prior. 2 year RN's, 1 year paramedic training, 2 year Respiratory Therapy degrees, etc. I started practice at a premier academic medical institution with an associates degree. 2 years is 2 years is 2 years.... IOW, PA training is 2 years...whether it is as part of a Bachelors, a separate Master's, or an Associates....doesn't matter. Personally, I think we need more of the Associates programs. For a number of reasons. Heck, Stanford was (maybe still is, not sure) an Associates Program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Can you please cite the schools where you've heard there is an ASSOCIATES program for PA? I think you may be mistaken, or may have misunderstood the requirements. As far as I have ever heard there are no associates PA programs, and in the next few years most PA programs will be masters programs only. It would be nearly impossible to become a PA given only a two year associate degree. Your best bet is to just try and get your bachelor's degree, complete all your prerequisite courses, and apply through CASPA. Good luck. P.S. You should probably move this post to the Pre-PA forum and remove it from the professional PA forum. YOU should probably "read more... and post less." If you don't know what you are talking about... saying nothing is usually the best course of action. Heck, Stanford was (maybe still is, not sure) an Associates Program. That is correct... When I attended, I had a Associates concentrated in biological studies (basically all the pre-reqs), I had a diploma RN, and a diploma EMT-P. I was then given a Certificate of completion from Stanford School of Medicine. It wasn't until after I had practiced as a PA for a few yrs that I actually completed a BS and a Masters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICRob0351 Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Ha, ok Contrarian... gotcha buddy, take it easy. ANYWAY... from the many PAs I know and work with, none of them have ever mentioned an Associates program for PA, but of course that doesn't mean they don't exist. I just don't understand how an individual can graduate highschool, take a two year associate's course and begin practicing as a PA. I understand 2 years is 2 years, but if one were to think about it, a lot more than two years of education is required for most people to get into a PA program. How does that not create discrepancies with education standards for individuals who have gone through BS/MS programs? It seems that trying to educate an individual in all collegiate level sciences AND PA education in two years would be extremely difficult to do. Can someone just clarify how this works? P.S. To the OP, I apologize for providing you with incorrect information. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICRob0351 Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Ugh... Those schools have prereqs that a high schooler is unlikely to meet, and entrance requirements that are usually steep enough to weed out poorly qualified applicants. I'm in an associates degree nursing program, but most of us have previous bachelors degrees. Thanks PAMAC, that clears it up a bit. I just have a hard time believing that an individual can go from high school to a PA Associates program. It seems that these programs are for individuals that have a considerable amount of experience besides a high school education. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Its the same way one used to be able to become a RN in either a Diploma, ASN, BSN, MSN program. The minumum standards for ALL accredited RN programs are exactly the same. The minimum standards for ALL accredited PA programs are the same and the info disseminated in the programs is considered graduate level curriculum... regardless of what degree/credential/diploma is granted to the graduates. The PA-s at a entry level Certificate PA program will be lectured and tested on the EXACT same info as the PA-s at a entry level Doctorate PA program (if one existed). The only difference in curriculum would be the additional stuff/fluff included to justify the level of degree awarded. If you ask those who know and been through it... you will find that the only real differences between Certificate/AS PA programs and BS/MS programs is a additional 1 quarter/sem "research interpretation" class that culminates in the student completing a English 102 style 10-50 page paper... and the cost to attend. If you think about it... it makes sense logically when you consider that ALL PAs take the same test (PANCE) upon completion of their training regardless of where they train and what degree they recieved at the end of that training. YMMV Contrarian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Thanks PAMAC, that clears it up a bit. I just have a hard time believing that an individual can go from high school to a PA Associates program. It seems that these programs are for individuals that have a considerable amount of experience besides a high school education. This is typically how it manifests... These Certificate/AS programs are usually filled with older, seasoned, experienced students with other professional healthcare licenses and certifications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICRob0351 Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 This is typically how it manifests... These Certificate/AS programs are usually filled with older, seasoned, experienced students with other professional healthcare licenses and certifications. Awesome... that makes sense. Good to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
physasst Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 This is typically how it manifests... These Certificate/AS programs are usually filled with older, seasoned, experienced students with other professional healthcare licenses and certifications. Yep, average age of my class was 32. AND, we had to have 4000 hours prior healthcare experience, have completed all the pre-reqs (A&P, Psych, Bio, microbio, etc.) BEFORE applying to the program. You had to have a minimum of a one year certificate in some healthcare training. This was all required to apply....there were no post HS students....the youngest in my class was 24. The oldest was 56. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Ours was typically 30yrs old (+/- 2yrs)... with the average of about 10,000 hrs of "licensed" DCHCE (no "shadowing" required/accepted and volunteering was nice but NOT considered acceptable experience). About 1/3rd had 30,000-40,000 hours of licensed, direct patient care experience. Youngest also 24... oldest 53. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICRob0351 Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 All that makes total sense... It seemed to me that it was referring to a traditional associate's program in the ABSENCE of any college education or healthcare experience. It seems like it's the same standards for all programs. What are the downsides to these programs? Is there any benefit to going for the MS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andersenpa Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 All that makes total sense... It seemed to me that it was referring to a traditional associate's program in the ABSENCE of any college education or healthcare experience. It seems like it's the same standards for all programs. What are the downsides to these programs? Is there any benefit to going for the MS? -Need for a masters degree for license (state driven) The AAPA has this list of degree requirements by state- some BS, some MS. http://saaapa.aapa.org/images/stories/Advocacy-state-summaries/Requirements_for_Licensure.pdf -Personal reasons (already have a BS) -Job/facility requirements for masters degree The common concern is the unknown- will a Masters be required in the future for practice. The writing is on the wall that the masters may become the entry level degree. LESH, as you have a stake in that, perhaps you can give a more enlightened comment. Given that the majority of entering PA students have a bachelors (see my older thread here: http://www.physicianassistantforum.com/forums/showthread.php/31338-Data-on-PA-Students-(warning-from-2007)?highlight=) it make sense that they would be inclined to enter masters programs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 No downsides... as most associate/certificate PA programs have articulation agreements with other programs that will allow you to get a Masters degree either concurrently or consecutively while attending the associate/certificate PA program... IF you already hold a bachelors degree. The cost of training may be significantly reduced also... My PA training cost me $24k (out of state tuitiion) My masters degree cost me $3,200. PA-C with a MPAS = $27,200. This would have been even cheaper ($15,200) if I would have been a resident of the state of the school I attended. It is my understanding that most Masters PA programs are charging near $65k-80k for the same knowledge aquired in a $20k PA Associate/certificate program. The benefit of getting the MS is latitude and competativeness in the job market. Some states require it for licensing, and most of the folks YOU will be competing with for jobs will have one. Not really a issue for PAs of my generation because our 15-20 yrs of experience and a PA associates or Certificate will trump a masters degree with little to no experience in most cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICRob0351 Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 That's all good gouge... I'm glad I'm applying to all MS programs. It seems that will be the standard degree for the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloo4107 Posted September 20, 2011 Author Share Posted September 20, 2011 It's not just an associate degree in PA. You have to complete pre-reqs & getting hands on hour before applying. So you have to get 2 years college experience + hands on before applying. My question was is the associate program worth going too when accepted and can you still practice? Does the degree matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andersenpa Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 It's not just an associate degree in PA. You have to complete pre-reqs & getting hands on hour before applying. So you have to get 2 years college experience + hands on before applying. My question was is the associate program worth going too when accepted and can you still practice? Does the degree matter? See above You can practice but you may be limited in some states or institutions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCMA79 Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 The last time I interviewed PA applicants for an entry level clinical role in Primary Care one of the applicants wanted a higher starting salary. When I asked why she thought she qualified for a higher starting salary she said because she had a Masters and that justified the request. I asked her what clinical skills she brought to the table compared to an AS grad, what could she do the AS grad couldn't. She couldn't come up with an ans. and just kept saying just because she had the Masters justified a higher starting salary. I explained I couldn't give her the higher starting salary based just on her degree since she was a new grad and brought no enhanced clinical skills compared to an AS grad. The degree race has been driven by several things. Schools have discovered that Masters level PA programs are real cash cows. The inferiority complex PAs have especially when it comes to NPs. Since the NPs are now talking about doctorate programs will PAs feel the need to follow along? The political side of the PA profession has been dominated by the academic PAs. As always YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LESH Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 -The common concern is the unknown- will a Masters be required in the future for practice. The writing is on the wall that the masters may become the entry level degree. LESH, as you have a stake in that, perhaps you can give a more enlightened comment. At this time I plead the fifth. Les Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andersenpa Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 The inferiority complex PAs have especially when it comes to NPs. Since the NPs are now talking about doctorate programs will PAs feel the need to follow along? The political side of the PA profession has been dominated by the academic PAs. As always YMMV. It's not a inferiority complex. I would say that most if not all PAs are convinced that PA training is superior to NP training (note I did not say that PAs are superior to NPs). PAs have a legitimate gripe when positions are advertised to NPs and not NPs on the basis of degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
physasst Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Ours was typically 30yrs old (+/- 2yrs)... with the average of about 10,000 hrs of "licensed" DCHCE (no "shadowing" required/accepted and volunteering was nice but NOT considered acceptable experience). About 1/3rd had 30,000-40,000 hours of licensed, direct patient care experience.Youngest also 24... oldest 53. Yeah, 4000 was what was required to APPLY, but most of the class had 8-10,000 hours, with some in the 30,000 range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paporzelt Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 I did find though while applying for jobs here in NYC, that almost every hospital PA job required a minimum bachelor's level of education despite licensing. Many are beginning to require Masters now as well. I've been out of school 3 months, about to begin my first job, and already thinking about when/how/where to get my masters, and if I was to finish it in PA, or something else, like Health Admin in case I ever want to move to more of a management healthcare position as I get older and want a family...its getting competitive out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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