Corpsman2PA Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 Hey all- Just curious on how to put valuation on benefits, or lack there of, in exchange for higher hourly rate. I've searched the forums but haven't had too much luck. I'm looking at some per diem shifts in UC (new grad) and want to use the fact that I don't need bene's as a bargaining chip. I'll obviously request they cover malpractice, but CME, health, etc I don't need as that is covered by main employer. I'm also not taking any offer that doesn't have concurrent coverage with another provider. There's not a lot of data on per diem employment in my area. I've typically heard that per diem work is higher hourly because of the lack of benefits. So how do I approach this? If they low ball me on hourly, are there any resources where I can say "well, since I don't need health coverage, I would like $3 more per hour" etc? Thanks. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted October 12, 2014 Moderator Share Posted October 12, 2014 at many of my prior per diem jobs pay in lieu of benefits has been $15/hr or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmdpac Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 Outside of medicine it used to be a rough calculation that benefits cost approximately one third of salary. I don't know how well that calculation applies to medicine as an industry. While it's certainly not completely accurate it could prove to be a reasonable starting point for negotiations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corpsman2PA Posted October 13, 2014 Author Share Posted October 13, 2014 Thanks for the guidance. I feel like I'm in a good negotiating position, since I'm willing to walk away from any weak offers. I'll let you know how it goes. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coloradopa Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Hey all- Just curious on how to put valuation on benefits, or lack there of, in exchange for higher hourly rate. I've searched the forums but haven't had too much luck. I'm looking at some per diem shifts in UC (new grad) and want to use the fact that I don't need bene's as a bargaining chip. I'll obviously request they cover malpractice, but CME, health, etc I don't need as that is covered by main employer. I'm also not taking any offer that doesn't have concurrent coverage with another provider. There's not a lot of data on per diem employment in my area. I've typically heard that per diem work is higher hourly because of the lack of benefits. So how do I approach this? If they low ball me on hourly, are there any resources where I can say "well, since I don't need health coverage, I would like $3 more per hour" etc? Thanks. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk In a large organization benefits are usually around 25% of salary. In small practices 30-40% may be more accurate. You are asking for Malpractice which is a significant expense depending on the specialty but medical is the major expense for any organization. I would ask at least 20% maybe more above base salary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corpsman2PA Posted October 22, 2014 Author Share Posted October 22, 2014 So they offered the same hourly rate as I make at my primary job along with malpractice coverage as a 1099/IC. In discussions at the interview, they had mentioned an hourly rate 10% above my normal hourly along with malpractice and DEA/license coverage. I'm of course confused at this and emailed them my concerns about the hourly rate. I'd be losing money if it stays at that offer. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted October 22, 2014 Moderator Share Posted October 22, 2014 So they offered the same hourly rate as I make at my primary job along with malpractice coverage as a 1099/IC. In discussions at the interview, they had mentioned an hourly rate 10% above my normal hourly along with malpractice and DEA/license coverage. I'm of course confused at this and emailed them my concerns about the hourly rate. I'd be losing money if it stays at that offer. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk RUN away this is not going to pass the IRS and state boards there is pretty much not an employment arrangement out there that will support a 1099 position As for cost of bennies the 33% figure in the business world is the rule of thumb for a 1099 versus an employee Medicine world - well 1099 just does not work..... Strangely enough the risk is on the employer not the employee - the gov't forces the employer to pay extra when caught (and they are doing audits in my area) I would say at least $15/hour for the PTO, health, and other bennies - remember family health plans cost about $1200/month - if you work full time that is about 150 hours - so that is about $8/hour just for health insurance (math in my head so not exact but you get the idea) a $5 raise to be 1099 is merely stealing from you and the gov't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corpsman2PA Posted October 22, 2014 Author Share Posted October 22, 2014 Thanks for the reply and your input Ventana- I have full bennies at my full-time job, does that change anything? Or are you saying run because it's 1099? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted October 22, 2014 Moderator Share Posted October 22, 2014 the offer is insulting and likely reflects the overall attitude towards you as an employee - those places that low balled me in the past seemed to be the worst employers 1099 is part of this - and the hourly rate the same as your full time job just shows that they are just looking for a cheap DEA # and Medical license.... I highly doubt you will be respected, you will be used, abused and discharged..... I would run away as there is to many red flags. If you want to work for them I would reply that you would consider it for $x/hr ($5-10 more then your regular hourly but ONLY as an employee) Do you realize you would need to buy workmans comp if you were a 1099? What about the one in a million chance you get a needle stick with Hep C or HIV ...... as a 1099 you are alone, as an employee you file a claim and you are taken care of for ever...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jengirl81 Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Soooooo true about this!! I was able to get out of a bad contract because my employer called all of the PAs ICs just so he could get out of paying benefits. I had to hire an attorney bc I wasn't happy and he said right away that I could walk away and not be in breach because of the contract being null and void because I was misclassified as an IC. I was so happy... But learned a lesson. The IRS had a very strict classification on what determines if a worker is an IC or an employee, so it's not up to the employer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corpsman2PA Posted October 23, 2014 Author Share Posted October 23, 2014 Thanks for the replies everybody. I researched more of the laws in regards to 1099 independent contractor status and just don't feel comfortable with it. Ventana you Make a good point about them just wanting a DEA number. I'm not having that. Along with workmans comp issues. I'm going to respectfully decline their offer. My gut just doesn't feel right about it, they're not in the ballpark with pay, and I agree-red flags are going up. I'll stick with my main gig for now and develop as much as I can there. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted October 23, 2014 Moderator Share Posted October 23, 2014 If you want the job counter with a more reasonable offer and explain why ie I looked into the 1099 issue and it really places you at risk as we do not fit in the definition of an IC I would come work for you as an regular employee with an hourly rate of $55/hour (or what ever you decide) I would also point out that you do not want bennies and therefore this is actually a reasonable offer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corpsman2PA Posted October 24, 2014 Author Share Posted October 24, 2014 Yeah, they wouldn't budge on going away from the IC/1099. If I were to take their offer, I would actually lose money and work 8 extra hours in comparison to working the same amount of shifts at my regular job. Not worth it at all. I'll wait for something better to come along. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted October 24, 2014 Moderator Share Posted October 24, 2014 good job they know that they can't buy you on the cheap... Heck, not in a vindictive way, but just to set the record straight - most if not all states and the IRS have tip lines that you can report when companies and or people try to avoid paying taxes.... might be career suicide if they ever found out it was you so be very very careful - but all the current employees might thank you.... It is amazing how employers will openly defraud the system for years and not get caught.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmdpac Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Gotta say thanks for the information in this discussion. I haven't been in the position where employee vs independent contractor has been a problem or consideration for me. Having read up on independent contractor issues this'll help me avoid the situation in the future. So, thanks for the info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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