PA to psychotherapist?

[problem child]

I have been a PA-C for 7 years and work in surgery, but I keep finding the element of work I most enjoy is counseling patients and educating them. I also have a past personal history with many psychotheraputic modalities as well as physical therapeutic practices, geared towards releasing trauma (physical or emotional) held in the body.

 

I am very interested in transitioning into counseling. I know most PAs who work in psych are psych med dispensers like most psychiatrists are now. I am NOT interested in this.

 

does anyone know if there is any fast track to transition from med-surg into counseling?

 

thanks!

[whoRyou]

If you find anything or hear anything problem child let me know as I am interested in this as well and I will do the same for you.

[Avalon]

Problemchild,

 

Trauma is, unfortunately, rather rampant in our society. The field of psychotherapy could use committed and empahtic individuals like you. The problem, as I understand it, is twofold: 1) inadequate preparation as a surgical PA (or a generalist PA) to competently conduct psychotherapy, and 2) the billing for your psychotherapeutic services under your PA license.

 

I have posted on other threads my personal, but somewhat informed opinion (as a doctorally trained and licensed psychologist of many years), that PA education does not even begin to prepare one for providing psychotherapy. Similarly, your personal experience as a therapy client cannot prepare you for this enterprise. These statements are especially true in light of the population with whom you wish to work; trauma victims are particularly psychologically vunerable and the work is additionally complex.

 

I am licensed as a PA in two states. The regulations of one state clearly specify that PAs cannot bill E & M codes for psychological services. The regulations of the second state specifiy that PAs can bill E & M codes for psychological services only if they have additional training and experience that is approved by the Board of Medicine as meeting their minimal criteria for the safe and effective practice of psychotherapy. As I am a licensed psychologist is that state, I have not explored what these criteria might be.

 

I would advise you to get additional training and work toward licensure as a qualified mental health provider in order to transition to your objective. Many, but not all states, license "professional counselors." This training requires a master's degree in counseling or clinical psychology, and a certificate of advanced study (roughly 30 credit hours) that includes internship and supervision. States also reguire passing a licensure exam.

 

Best of luck.

[problem child]

Problemchild,

 

Trauma is, unfortunately, rather rampant in our society. The field of psychotherapy could use committed and empahtic individuals like you. The problem, as I understand it, is twofold: 1) inadequate preparation as a surgical PA (or a generalist PA) to competently conduct psychotherapy, and 2) the billing for your psychotherapeutic services under your PA license.

 

I have posted on other threads my personal, but somewhat informed opinion (as a doctorally trained and licensed psychologist of many years), that PA education does not even begin to prepare one for providing psychotherapy. Similarly, your personal experience as a therapy client cannot prepare you for this enterprise. These statements are especially true in light of the population with whom you wish to work; trauma victims are particularly psychologically vunerable and the work is additionally complex.

 

I am licensed as a PA in two states. The regulations of one state clearly specify that PAs cannot bill E & M codes for psychological services. The regulations of the second state specifiy that PAs can bill E & M codes for psychological services only if they have additional training and experience that is approved by the Board of Medicine as meeting their minimal criteria for the safe and effective practice of psychotherapy. As I am a licensed psychologist is that state, I have not explored what these criteria might be.

 

I would advise you to get additional training and work toward licensure as a qualified mental health provider in order to transition to your objective. Many, but not all states, license "professional counselors." This training requires a master's degree in counseling or clinical psychology, and a certificate of advanced study (roughly 30 credit hours) that includes internship and supervision. States also reguire passing a licensure exam.

 

Best of luck.

 

thank you so much for your input, avalon; this is exactly the sort of detailed guidance I was looking for. I will definitely look into it.

[problem child]

If you find anything or hear anything problem child let me know as I am interested in this as well and I will do the same for you.

 

LOVE THE CARTOON!! and if you're looking for guidance, read avalon's answer -- it gave me exactly the sort of directionI was looking for.

[whoRyou]

Thank you both

[physasst]

Problemchild,

 

Trauma is, unfortunately, rather rampant in our society. The field of psychotherapy could use committed and empahtic individuals like you. The problem, as I understand it, is twofold: 1) inadequate preparation as a surgical PA (or a generalist PA) to competently conduct psychotherapy, and 2) the billing for your psychotherapeutic services under your PA license.

 

I have posted on other threads my personal, but somewhat informed opinion (as a doctorally trained and licensed psychologist of many years), that PA education does not even begin to prepare one for providing psychotherapy. Similarly, your personal experience as a therapy client cannot prepare you for this enterprise. These statements are especially true in light of the population with whom you wish to work; trauma victims are particularly psychologically vunerable and the work is additionally complex.

 

I am licensed as a PA in two states. The regulations of one state clearly specify that PAs cannot bill E & M codes for psychological services. The regulations of the second state specifiy that PAs can bill E & M codes for psychological services only if they have additional training and experience that is approved by the Board of Medicine as meeting their minimal criteria for the safe and effective practice of psychotherapy. As I am a licensed psychologist is that state, I have not explored what these criteria might be.

 

I would advise you to get additional training and work toward licensure as a qualified mental health provider in order to transition to your objective. Many, but not all states, license "professional counselors." This training requires a master's degree in counseling or clinical psychology, and a certificate of advanced study (roughly 30 credit hours) that includes internship and supervision. States also reguire passing a licensure exam.

 

Best of luck.

 

Just out of curiosity, are you working as a PA, or as a psychologist? Just curious, as I know an NP who got her PhD in psych, and she works only as a psychologist now.

[EMEDPA]

look into distance learning PsyD programs. there are a few accredited ones that can be done in 4 years while working full time. a friend of mine did one and is now a licensed psychotherapist in california.

option #2 would be a 1 yr psych pa residency which would include rx and talk therapy training.

[problem child]

thanks, EMEDPA. do you happen to recall which distance-learning PsyD programs are accredited?

[EMEDPA]

my friend went through one in chicago. only a handful are accredited I think.

[Avalon]

physsast,

 

I work two days a week as a psychologist, three days a week as a family medicine PA, and two days a week as a women's health PA. It's a rather ambitious schedule that includes Saturdays most weeks.

 

EMEDPA, a possible word of caution about distance learning PsyD programs. Many are in fact APA accredited, but state licensure requirement include the completion of a pre-doctoral internship year. If one's internship is not APIC accredited, this can cause significant delays and/or obstacles in the licensure process. Last year alone, over 1200 doctoral students in PhD and PsyD programs across the country did not match to available APIC internship sites. As a general rule, PsyD applicants, especially those from on-line programs, are much less competive for available internship spots. People considering this route are well advised to read some of the challenges faced by unmatched students on the PhD/PsyD threads on sdn. There may even be pending litigation about this ongoing problem.

 

Although I have not completed one, my personal opinion question wether a one year psychiatry residency, in which a significant portion of the focus would be on medical management of psychological presentations, would effectively prepare one for conducting psychotherapy with a trauma population.

[txpsychchick]

Hi Problem Child, I'm actually kind of doing the opposite of what you're describing. I am a psychotherapist, but now in school to do PA :) I know others have already addressed your question, but thought I might still give you a little bit more info. In Texas, where I am licensed, the LPC or LCSW options are both masters' level degrees ( and there are definitely online options), but the most time consuming part is the required additional 3000 hours of supervision to be fully licensed, so I'm pretty sure that would be the requirements in most of the other states. It also sounds like EMDR would be right up your alley to train in, you might want to look into that. I am glad I'm not the only one who sees counseling as such an important part of patient care. Best of luck!

[problem child]

Hi Problem Child, I'm actually kind of doing the opposite of what you're describing. I am a psychotherapist, but now in school to do PA :) I know others have already addressed your question, but thought I might still give you a little bit more info. In Texas, where I am licensed, the LPC or LCSW options are both masters' level degrees ( and there are definitely online options), but the most time consuming part is the required additional 3000 hours of supervision to be fully licensed, so I'm pretty sure that would be the requirements in most of the other states. It also sounds like EMDR would be right up your alley to train in, you might want to look into that. I am glad I'm not the only one who sees counseling as such an important part of patient care. Best of luck!

 

 

thanks. what's EMDR?

[EMEDPA]

avalon- my friend did a 1 yr unpaid internship working with a specialist who dealth only with adults with adhd to meet the requirement for licensure

[problem child]

I don't want to do shortcuts or be inadequately trained. I want to be properly trained, although time is an issue due to my age (not sayin' how old, but I'm getting up there.... ;) )

 

physsast,

 

I work two days a week as a psychologist, three days a week as a family medicine PA, and two days a week as a women's health PA. It's a rather ambitious schedule that includes Saturdays most weeks.

 

EMEDPA, a possible word of caution about distance learning PsyD programs. Many are in fact APA accredited, but state licensure requirement include the completion of a pre-doctoral internship year. If one's internship is not APIC accredited, this can cause significant delays and/or obstacles in the licensure process. Last year alone, over 1200 doctoral students in PhD and PsyD programs across the country did not match to available APIC internship sites. As a general rule, PsyD applicants, especially those from on-line programs, are much less competive for available internship spots. People considering this route are well advised to read some of the challenges faced by unmatched students on the PhD/PsyD threads on sdn. There may even be pending litigation about this ongoing problem.

 

Although I have not completed one, my personal opinion question wether a one year psychiatry residency, in which a significant portion of the focus would be on medical management of psychological presentations, would effectively prepare one for conducting psychotherapy with a trauma population.

 

thanks again, avalon. I thought the same thing you stated about the shortcomings of both of these routes.

 

what would be your best recommendation with time as an issue? I live in a college-heavy town. can a clinical social worker do as well as a clinical psychologist? what is the length of training for these degrees, MS? PhD? what is required to be most effective and earn a decent living?

[whoRyou]

thanks. what's EMDR?

Problem Child: EMDR --> Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing therapy. It helps resolve and integrate stress and anxiety resulting from traumas. (PTSD, sexual abuse etc) The EMDR can be used to help 'victims/survivors' (I hate these words as they sound so 'psycho-babble') process their memories properly and develop adaptive changes in their thinking. I did find it quite intriguing as a psychology student watching my supervisor. It is quite controversial. Some believe this can cause the creation of false memories. http://consults.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/03/16/expert-answers-on-e-m-d-r/?_r=0 For me, the jury is still out.

[dananeal]

Problemchild,

 

Trauma is, unfortunately, rather rampant in our society. The field of psychotherapy could use committed and empahtic individuals like you. The problem, as I understand it, is twofold: 1) inadequate preparation as a surgical PA (or a generalist PA) to competently conduct psychotherapy, and 2) the billing for your psychotherapeutic services under your PA license.

 

I have posted on other threads my personal, but somewhat informed opinion (as a doctorally trained and licensed psychologist of many years), that PA education does not even begin to prepare one for providing psychotherapy. Similarly, your personal experience as a therapy client cannot prepare you for this enterprise. These statements are especially true in light of the population with whom you wish to work; trauma victims are particularly psychologically vunerable and the work is additionally complex.

 

I am licensed as a PA in two states. The regulations of one state clearly specify that PAs cannot bill E & M codes for psychological services. The regulations of the second state specifiy that PAs can bill E & M codes for psychological services only if they have additional training and experience that is approved by the Board of Medicine as meeting their minimal criteria for the safe and effective practice of psychotherapy. As I am a licensed psychologist is that state, I have not explored what these criteria might be.

 

I would advise you to get additional training and work toward licensure as a qualified mental health provider in order to transition to your objective. Many, but not all states, license "professional counselors." This training requires a master's degree in counseling or clinical psychology, and a certificate of advanced study (roughly 30 credit hours) that includes internship and supervision. States also reguire passing a licensure exam.

 

Best of luck.

I too agree with you that PA education does not even begin to prepare one for providing psychotherapy and a personal experience cannot prepare you for enterprise. These statements are especially true in light of the population with whom you wish to work. So, it's better to get additional training licensure as a qualified mental health provider.

[problem child]

I too agree with you that PA education does not even begin to prepare one for providing psychotherapy and a personal experience cannot prepare you for enterprise. These statements are especially true in light of the population with whom you wish to work. So, it's better to get additional training licensure as a qualified mental health provider.

 

yes. I am not sure if you read my original post, or my follow-up questions. that is what I am asking -- what is the best additional training/licensure - within the most efficient time frame - to become a qualified mental health provider? if you have suggestions/experience in this area, please let me know. thanks