Faculty says not to worry about grades so much...should I?

[RPAJ]

To get into PA school we work hard to get the best grades to compete. Yet when we are in school, as I am now, the faculty says over and over not to worry so much about exam grades as long as you pass.

 

"There isn't a lot of data suggesting low exam scores equate to a poor clinician."

 

I know you could respond with statements such as: "low grades must mean you don't know the material" etc. So there is no need to respond that way.

 

My goal of this post is to hear if other programs speak the same way; that the schooling is rigorous, they know it, we know it- do the best you can. Let the type A personality go a little bit and accept when an exam is a high C or a B, especially on medical microbiology.

 

I'm finding it difficult not getting the consistant high grades I'm used to which makes me feel potentially inadequate as a provider. Or that I may have trouble with PANCE.

 

Thoughts?

[chickitabanana]

I felt the same as you when I started PA school. I got a B- on our first exam and freaked out. I was a straight A student in college and in my post-bacc courses. Shortly after, I felt bad that I got so upset about not getting an A because one of my classmates failed. Part of it is getting used to taking a timed exam, part of it is learning how to study and enormous amount of material in such a short amount of time, and part of it is that sometimes the test questions aren't well written. After a group of us went to our didactic coordinator upset about our grades on that first exam and he told us to relax and not worry so much about the scores. All of our faculty followed pretty much the same mentality. Yes, they wanted us to do well, but no one expected all of us to get straight As on every test. Honestly, PA programs are (or should be) designed so that if you can survive it you should be well prepared for the PANCE. How far into didactic year are you? After first semester many of us cared much less about the actual grade we got and were just relieved every week after we found out we passed the exam. We had an alumni event during my didactic year and one of them told us that before every exam someone would write the following on the board: PA = C :)

 

Don't worry about the PANCE, yet, that's a long way away. Also, no one wants a robot who can regurgitate everything they've ever learned as their provider. Just because you aren't getting 100% of multiple choice questions right doesn't mean you'll be inadequate. (And just because someone might be getting 100% right doesn't necessarily mean they'll be any good either.)

[cinntsp]

Low exam scores may not equate to a poor clinician but they'll relate to poor exam scores...one of which is required to become licensed. If you're making solid Bs that's one thing but you should be worried if you're barely passing everything.

[RPAJ]

Some good points chikita and wutthe. I'm near the end of our first semester and am pulling A's, high B's with two high C scores.

 

I think I was looking for someone outside my school to have experienced this test score thought process- primarily to ensure it was something more than their anectdotal thinking, perhaps PA school wide in essence.

 

I will start putting PA=C on the board (even though we all strive for better).

[UGoLong]

God natured competition proceeds into PA school, but no longer is it necessary for you to be at the top of your class. You will learn many kinds of material during your didactic year. Depending on what you go into after school, some will be much more important to you than others. Just do your best and it will work out for you.

[primadonna22274]

It is generally true that a higher PA GPA correlates with higher PANCE scores. I think it's disingenuous for your faculty to tell you not to worry about grades when you know they're watching and commenting on the lower third in every faculty meeting.

Keep striving for your best. Don't be insane about it--sleep, nutrition and exercise are important--but grades DO matter. Good luck ;)

[JasonD]

I would say that grades do matter when it comes time to select your clinicals. Those who get the best grades will get the choice clinical sites.

[chickitabanana]

I would say that grades do matter when it comes time to select your clinicals. Those who get the best grades will get the choice clinical sites.

 

Depends on your program. My program didn't have "grades" or GPAs -- instead each exam/class was given a "grade" of Honors, High Pass, Pass, or Fail. Practically everyone in my class got the electives they wanted and grades did not play a factor (as far as I know). We were actually encouraged to do one of our electives in an area we felt we were weak. My worst test grade didactic year was on our orthopedics exam. I completed an elective in ortho surgery and found that I learned a lot on the wards that I didn't quite comprehend during didactic after seeing it clinically. It made it much easier to study for the boards and I did better on that section than I think I would have otherwise.

 

To the OP: having As, Bs, and a few Cs is good! You're not going to ace every specialty/area of medicine. Some you'll catch on quickly and some you'll hate/never feel comfortable with and you'll know that's an area of medicine that you don't want to practice.

 

I agree with primadonna about doing your best and not forgetting about health, nutrition, and things outside of PA school. I think higher GPA correlating with higher PANCE scores has a lot to do with study skills. People I know who have failed the PANCE also failed didactic exams and were not known to be the "gunner" type who studied a lot. True, if you don't learn the material the first time you can't learn it all before the PANCE, but if you don't study well (or a lot) you'll probably have a lower GPA and be more likely to fail the PANCE because you won't study well/a lot for that either.

 

I've never been asked about my PANCE score and don't even remember it. If you asked me what it was I'd have to log into NCCPA to look it up. I suppose if you apply to residency after PA school a higher score would be favorable? I don't know any other time when it'd be important, though.

[SHU-CH]

When faculty members say things like this, they are trying to get across the point that grades are not the ultimate end-point of your education. The ultimate end-point that we care about is you becoming a competent, confident clinician. In the eyes of most faculty members there is probably not much difference between a student who graduates with a 3.5 vs a 3.8. There is probably a more eloquent way to say it but what we are getting at is that we want you to worry about knowledge more than scores. At times is probably seems like your faculty is riding you hard but we know that you are the next generation of our profession and we really want you to excel and go farther than we ever thought possible.

 

If your performance is not where you would like it to be, you need to critically appraise why this is the case. Some people do not take standardized tests well. If this seems to be the case, there are tips and tricks that the faculty can discuss with you that could improve your performance. We have had some graduates struggle with the PANCE and then go into highly specialized and complex areas of medicine and thrive. So you just need to do whatever you need to do to squeak out the PANCE.

 

If your test taking technique is pretty good, do you have a knowledge deficit? Are you skimming the material, reading and outlining the material, and reviewing the material? Are you able to select what is important and prioritize that, or does it seem like every exam has topics that you didn't seem to study on it? When you learn the material, do you just remember it for the test and then forget it long term? Again, speak to your faculty and find out where the trouble lies.

 

It is no fun to admit you are struggling, but faculty members are almost always happy to assist a student who has the humility to admit things have gotten over their head. Some day soon you will be taking care of sick people and we love to know that if you are the kind of person that seeks help when appropriate.

[RPAJ]

I strive for good grades and I feel I am learning the material at an above average level- and, importantly, can apply it to patient care. I think the struggle a lot of us type A go-getters have is not knowing everything. I know, not realistic. Thus, we must learn what you all are telling me now and I will probably tell a new student someday as well.

 

I'm grateful my program has brought in a lot of people to teach us study habits relevant to PA school and medicine; that has been helpful.

 

Taking care of one's self is paramount- something I have not been good at e.g. adequate sleep etc. (knowing when to quit for the night!) Additionally, my first semester was wrought with major personal events that included a re-ignited child custody battle (just ended and I prevailed).

 

To summarize this whole thing I would say that I should remember this is the first semester of the program, which of the like I have never participated in, perfection in learning the material is unobtainable and unrealistic- patience, retention and understanding is key. Most important, after nearly two decades with a successful paramedic career, I will succeed at this and I should HAVE FUN!

 

Thanks all- very helpful.

[UGoLong]

PA school was a challenge for me too, even though I had been through two other graduate programs. I had decided to quit a well-paying career to go back to school and some initial failures rocked me a bit. I soon realized that I was getting in my own way. mostly by striving for good grades just to convince myself that I had chosen the right path.

 

I eventually got past all of that and realized that I didn’t need grades to prove anything: just to move forward and experience whatever was going to happen next. It was an important life lesson for me that I wrote a book about it. The story is told day by day, week by week, in the present tense so that you can get a feel for what the process was like. Reading it now, several years later, still makes me remember how I felt. The anticipation of moving to school, getting organized, meeting my classmates, and then struggling.

 

In the end, I did fine, but I learned a lot about myself along the way.

 

If anyone is interested, the book can be found at http://www.amazon.com/dp/1479372099/ref=tsm_1_fb_lk

[winterallsummer]

Yeah grades don't matter unless you fall below that 3.0, then all that "just learn! focus on the basics and don't worry about your grades" go out the window and most schools won't fart or blink twice before throwing you out.

 

That being said, I don't feel grades are relevant or make you a better clinician. But you better believe you should be sweating them especially if you fall anywhere close to a 3.0. Not to harp on SHU's post as it seemed quite thoughtful, but at the end of the day PA educators care about GPA > 3.0 and not borderline, PANCE pass rates and preceptor relations. None of that feel good crap is going to protect you if you are facing academic expulsion based on poor grades. My 2 cents.

[Will352ns]

My program says the same...focus on passing only.

 

There are a lot of younger students in my class that have pretty much been students their whole lives; school is all they know. These are young, bright people who thrive on good grades.

 

Now they are in PA school....things have changed a bit. The material is a coming fast and furious....not necessarily difficult concepts (so far) but a lot of material. Some of these young bright students are struggling for the first time in their academic careers (not to say some of the experienced students aren't either). This is a world changing event for someone who feels their worth is measured by their school performance.

 

I think the school is simply trying to get across the point that you don't have to kill yourself and try to get all A's. A less stressed, better rested student, will perform better in the long run and not get burned out as quick. This seems to be a difficult concept for some students.

[UGoLong]

Will, I agree with you. One lesson I've learned in life is that "what brought you here, won't necessarily be what you need to take the next step."

 

The goal of PA school is to master the material. Whether that translates into good grades is another story. Some people will do well in some subjects and some in others. Obsessing your way through life isn't much fun. Do the best you can, but let go and move on after each test. And take some time for rest, exercise, sleep, and for the important people in your life.

[PM2PA]

My program is the same way. Yet there's something to be said about barely passing all year, failing a final and failing a class/teetering on being kicked out. Personally if I see two numbers and the first one is at least an 8, I'm happy.