Bweezy34 Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 I will be graduating in roughly 3 months and began applying for a month or so ago. I recently got an offer in my hometown of Albuquerque, New Mexico. The practice is a private single physician group with 2 current PAs on staff. They do pain management along with physical and rehabilitation but are recruiting an additional physician to expand into more sports medicine. The offer is as follows: Full time position. Office hours M-F 9-5. Expected to see 18-22 patients per day after 4 month orientation period. Call = 5-10 days a year. salary- 60k starting increasing to 75k after 4month evaluation Time off- 3weeks PTO (sick and vacation) 2 weeks of holidays unpaid = 5 weeks off a year CME- $1500+ 5 paid pays off full health and vision insurance on day 1 Paid licensing, DEA, AAPA, and credentialing costs I know the physician/owner personally and she is a stand up person and a fantastic clinician. My biggest hesitation is that $40/hr seems a little low to me. The PTO and CME seem pretty standard. There was no mention of retirement or loan repayment programs. Would I be reasonable in asking for 5% in a SEP-IRA and $500/month in tuition reimbursement ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcdavis Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 I will let the others comment on the particulars, which, especially since you are a newbie and apparently really Ike/respect the doc, sounds like a good deal, but I would like to comment on the SEP-Ira request. If you are a 1040 employee, you are not eligible for a SEP 0program. I believe to do a SEP. you have to be an independen contractor, self employed, 1099 person. You are eligible for ROTH IRA, or a traditional IRA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medic207 Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Sound like if you know them personally then you could show them some salary surveys and ask for more money. If this is their best offer, then maybe they cannot afford you. If you just want to take the job for experience then of course that's your preference. But be sure you tell them what your doing as you would be compromising on the salary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medic207 Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Let me revise my comment slightly: as the quick escalation from 60k to 75k is steep. I would want to know upfront in no uncertain terms what it takes to make it to the 75k mark. A cheesy eval process that ends up getting you just to 69-72k is crap. The 75k is a lot more consistent with a new grad offer. So it may not be a bad gig for you pending those details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcdavis Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Okay I am confused.. What are you being offered? 65k ($32.5/hr, assuming a standard 2000 hr work year, ), increasing to 75k ($37.5/hr), or $40/hr hitch you refer to at the end ( which equals $80k/ year.) PTO of 3 weeks, plus another 5 days of cme paid days = 4 weeks ( a working month!!!) of being paid and not working/ bringing anything into te company.... Which puts a slightly different light on it, doesn't it? Again, I hate to be a dishrag, but , with full benefits starting at day one ( represents another 15-18% of you salary cost to your employer, and suddenly, to her you are costing 90k/ year...) I think this is a pretty good deal. But apparently I am in the minority.. I guess simply graduating from PA school entitles you to 85-100 k / year, plus benefits, a company car, and ownership in the company or at least a seat on the board. Have any of you any experience in business when-in you had to actually meet a payroll??? Take this job... With grace, learn as much ad you can, contribute to the sucess of the clinic, BECOME a valuable commodity, then revisit the salary... Salary follows competence, not simply graduation and three initials behind your name. I don't mean to sound harsh.. Your tone was very appropriate, and I applaud you for asking.. But these salary questions all have the same theme... And that is that somehow new grads, who have done nothing, deserve more... And I don't think that you have really thought about the true value of what is being offered. Yours is not a quid pro quo contract.. You will not be of much financial benefit to your employer for a least 6-12 months... And, if you realize that, then You should realize that your on the job education is in essence adding ANOTHER 15-20% of your salary to your boss's cost. Suddenly, all things considered, you are making $55/hr (110,000/year, starting on day one). Of course not all cash, but cost... Just my $0.02... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medic207 Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Calm down! Bottom line is that you negotiate what you can and what the going rates are for your area. You will discover what works for the employer and what doesn't work. New grad starting salary is around 85k. If you don't believe me then sorry, but that us a fact of life in the southwestern US. And hey, if you get a company car then that's gravy, take it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bweezy34 Posted February 10, 2013 Author Share Posted February 10, 2013 Medic and Davis, I appreciate both of you taking the time to comment. You're correct in assuming I know and respect the physician in this practice. I know there are many positives that would come from working with her and the initial contract offer is not unreasonable. But the salary does appear to be slightly below market for a new grad in this area. I will be graduating with some serious student loans. It doesn't help me personally nor does it help the profession to have PAs taking salaries that don't reflect the market rate. I know my loans aren't necessarily an employers problem but the fact remains that I have to make sure I make an intelligent financial decision because between taxes and my loans my net take home income will be significantly impacted. Davis, you are absolutely correct jn pointing out that benefits increase my total cost to the practice. But it is not as if any of these benefits are outside the norm for PA contracts. Most employers offer similar Insurance and PTO packages. The vast majority of employers offer some kind of retirement plan, hence I feel like I would not be asking for something that would not be available should I work for another practice. It is possible that these requests are unreasonable and i would accept that. Hence why i am here to see what others think. You are incorrect in assuming that because I am a new grad that I am some 24yo kid with no business or life experiences. I'm not the type of person to rattle off my achievements because I know pretty much everyone in this site have similar qualifications. I would just ask that you avoid prejudging me because I'm new to PA contract negotiations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAruby Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Disclaimer: I am not yet a PA, simply a PA student from ABQ. Recently I've been looking at the job market and here's my unsolicited 2 cents... - If you love pain management and rehab, this contract seems comparable to others I've seen locally for new grads. (I've received some warning about the limitations of future career options when starting in pain management, but as of yet I don't have that interest so I never looked further into it) - 75K is what I've found to be an almost average starting salary for a new PA grad, and the benefit options seem adequate. As mentioned before, know what it takes to get from that 60k to 75k after 4 months, many paramedics, nurses, etc make nearly 60K annually (sometimes more). - I'd recommend negotiating the tuition. From what I've seen locally, most places offer some sort of program, and since you'd be going to private practice you wouldn't be putting time toward the 10 year requirement for the federal public service repayment options... just what I've found to think on for now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted February 10, 2013 Moderator Share Posted February 10, 2013 FWIW I would never(and have never) accepted a position that did not provide medical/dental/vision/cme/retirement/malpractice. I know some of you do the 1099 thing and get a lot more$/hr and if you can swing that, fine. for me I would prefer to not have to buy my own benefits. I think a new grad in most markets today is probably worth 75-80k/yr. I would accept less for a residency or a REALLY good job with great teaching and benefits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcdavis Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 You are incorrect in assuming that because I am a new grad that I am some 24yo kid with no business or life experiences. I'm not the type of person to rattle off my achievements because I know pretty much everyone in this site have similar qualifications. I would just ask that you avoid prejudging me because I'm new to PA contract negotiations. okay. No prejudgement intended. Previous life experience and age are not central to your employability as a new grad and are not really an issue in this discussion. A 24 y/o newbie with no HCE Is on equal footing, to me, with a 45 year old former CEO, also with no prior HCE. the only way PRE-PA life experience make any big whoop for me and affects my judging your economic value, is if your PRE PA experience were all health care related... If that is the case, then my calculus changes radically.. And if it is so, I diminished your value to the clinic inappropriately. significant PRE education HCE Affects new grad job performance and parlays into an increased starting salary's merit. You are not only new to the PA contract negotiation process, You are new to the PA process. I do not think, with your self descriptor as a new grad, that I was judging your business acumen. I was judging your business desirability. My opinions are from a hire-fire position.. And represent an acute awareness of the friction between new grads understandably wanting the moon, and the business of medicine becoming less and less able to provide the moon. I also realize (student loans notwithstanding) just how important having a job that will teach you, and bring you along, is...to me, that teaching and mentoring has a value beyond calculation.. It will influence your entire career. No offense meant.. Just an opinion opposing the howl of " we deserve more" that I am hearing daily from new grads... Partially because they feel they were promised more, partially because of their debt load, but mainly because they feel entitled to it, having done nothing as PAs but graduate, to deserve it. I can only influence those institutions which ask my opinion on hire / fire.. And my sphere of influence may never affect you or your contemporaries... But I do have a pretty well seated opinion of what a new grad is really worth, and it is somewhat south of a starting salary of 85-90k. And I have no paucity of applicants. Make no mistake, I truly do not begrudge your desire for as much as possible. I would merely caution that you not discount te value of the benefits offered, not the least of which is what sounds like a wonderful working enviornment and ability to really get a start on the fundamentals of our craft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theyus Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 No offense meant.. Just an opinion opposing the howl of " we deserve more" that I am hearing daily from new grads... I was under the impression that EMEDPA and Medic207 were pretty experienced PAs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted February 12, 2013 Moderator Share Posted February 12, 2013 I was under the impression that EMEDPA and Medic207 were pretty experienced PAs pretty sure Davis wasn't referring to us..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Steve Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 Is it wise to mix business and friendship? Can you afford (emotionally and financially) to sacrifice one to benefit the other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoTheEvolution Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 A way late response to this thread as I ferret out information for myself and my future: The pay being offered really is closer to $40/hr, and the salary may have been considered a higher/sweeter offer by the hiring physician when she offered you 2 weeks of unpaid time off; she's paying you that salary for 50 weeks of work (assuming 1,920 hours then, not 2,000), not 52 weeks. ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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