surgblumm Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 s [TABLE] [TR] [TD=width: 100%, bgcolor: #FFFFFF][TABLE] [TR] [TD=colspan: 2][TABLE] [TR] [TD=width: 100%, align: left]Joe Hlavin posted in PAs for "Physician Associate" [TABLE=width: 100%] [TR] [TD][/TD] [TD=align: left][TABLE=width: 100%] [TR] [TD]Joe Hlavin[/TD] [TD=align: right] 9:45pm Jan 31 [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] Looking for first and/or second year PA students for a public interpretation of the profession research project. Any program directors have students to get involved? looking for a wide swap across the US. Would not be very time consuming but high probability of impact. Send me an email at jhlavin@txbsi.com [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterallsummer Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Details/info? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted February 8, 2013 Moderator Share Posted February 8, 2013 the students would be performing a survey and could list their names on the final publication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
physasst Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Who's desiging the survey? Is is validated? Will the students need approval of their program or IRB? Are the questions leading or is there a possibility of sampling bias? Is the survey designed to only capture information, or will there be an intervention? If not a validated survey, will there be a pilot survey to evaluate question wording and goodness of fit? Who is going to code the data? How will you determine power, IOW, do you know how many people live in every area you survey? How will you define the geographic area? The reason I ask, is that survey research is actually pretty hard to do. At least to have any reliable, generalizable results. We just roasted one of our scholars yesterday during a presentation, because his results were so far from expected that there had to be sampling bias. Not just on one question, but multiple questions, which raises the spectre of a regression to the mean bias. The point is....it's easy to throw together some questions...but it's really hard to throw together questions which aren't leading or misleading, and which limit bias. I'm not trying to be jerk, but if you are going to put in the effort to survey people nationally, and if you are going to ask students to take time out of their pretty busy schedules, you need to make sure that the survey is optimized. Not saying that you HAVEN'T thought about all of this, but just pointing out that poorly done surveys won't help our profession at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterallsummer Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 If it's quick I'll do it, PM me the link, I'm a 1st yr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoelleK Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Same here...I'd be interested...but I have to know about regs first too...i.e. to echo Physasst...do I need to contact my IRB? Feel free to PM me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
physasst Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Same here...I'd be interested...but I have to know about regs first too...i.e. to echo Physasst...do I need to contact my IRB? Feel free to PM me. To be honest, I don't know, it's kind of quasi research, by that I mean, it would never survive a peer review process, it's really more of a business/marketing poll. The problem is, IRB usually requires submission if it involves human subjects... Research is defined as: "research" is "a systematic investigation designed to develop or contribute to generalizable knowledge." So, by the fact that you are thinking of publishing this, it could be construed as profession research designed to contribute to generalizable knowledge. From HHS: (f) Human subject means a living individual about whom an investigator (whether professional or student) conducting research obtains (1) Data through intervention or interaction with the individual, or (2) Identifiable private information. So, while the polls could be anonymous, you are still technically collecting data through an interaction. Also, thinking about it, the fact that you are engaging in a face to face conversation, even if they don't fill the survey out right there, TECHNICALLY makes it not an anonymous survey. Another potential conflict I could see would be if second year students accidentally surveyed public members that were also patients that they saw on a rotation, which isn't that likely. The point is, this needs to be clearly spelled out to any potential student surveyors. Personally, I would recommend ANY student thinking of doing this to at least discuss it with their faculty. Better to be safe, than to find out later that a patient wound up being surveyed and complained to the school. Again, highly unlikely, but I'd hate to be a second year student and get called into the Directors office because a patient complained about this. http://www.aapor.org/IRB_FAQs_for_Survey_Researchers1.htm#question9 In the event that this would require IRB submission, it would almost certainly be IRB exempt, which means you spend an hour or so filling out all of the paperwork, and it just gets assigned a number with no review by the committee necessary. Point is, before any student, or any professional PA considers doing anything like this...check with your faculty or IRB......You really don't want to violate federal human subject regulations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoelleK Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Exactly...I did clinical research for 9 years prior to school and audited trials for 4 of those years. I would want to know about consent, etc. If it is de-identified data and subjects are not being paid, etc. etc. etc., it can sometimes be pushed through as exempt but it would need to meet several other credentials (almost like a post-market type thing); however, I am not sure it will fit the definition for generalizable knowledge to add to the public education. Fine line...some local/institution based IRBs are more likely to frown upon it but I've known central IRBs to approve such things. Then again, if a central IRB was being used then my IRB would likely have to give authority over which is something they may not want. I would definitely need to know more about this study before agreeing. Unfortunately, I've seen many studies that should not have passed a peer-reviewed process but somehow made it through (eyes-rolling, sarcasm intended)...I'm not implying that this study is like that but I would be interested in learning more and if it is then running it past my director and IRB. I LOVE research and am always interested in participation when possible, when I have time available, and when it doesn't conflict with my ethics :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted February 9, 2013 Moderator Share Posted February 9, 2013 participants would only be a random sample of adults at a given place/time(we are looking at malls and movie theater lines for example). no demographic data would be taken or fees paid for participation. it's just a simple 10 question survey with the same available answers for each question. no leading or bias in the questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoelleK Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 participants would only be a random sample of adults at a given place/time(we are looking at malls and movie theater lines for example). no demographic data would be taken or fees paid for participation. it's just a simple 10 question survey with the same available answers for each question. no leading or bias in the questions. Has it been given an exempt status by an IRB? What exactly are they looking at/for? What are the specific aims? Secondary aims? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
physasst Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 I spoke with a friend who is the Dean of the School of Health Sciences at a medical school which also has a PA program. He said he would absolutely expect his students to obtain IRB approval for this. In fact, he didn't even hesitate......Bottom line is, even with the absence of demographic data, it is still not a truly anonymous data collection, as there is a face to face encounter. First thing you need to ask is that famous question, and the one I hammer on when people approach me with a research proposal....."So what?"....I say that, because, that's the sniff test. So you collect this data? So what? It sounds brutal, but I was hammered on that by my mentors, and they were right to do so. Bottom line students is, if you want to participate, please, by all means do so, but make sure to clarify with your program and institution that you don't need IRB, and if you do, that you obtain it first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted February 9, 2013 Moderator Share Posted February 9, 2013 What are the specific aims? Secondary aims? It is a survey regarding preceonceptions of the scope of practice of different health care professionals. which of the following individuals can XYZ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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