paul2834 Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Well, I've got my first shadowing opportunity coming up this weekend and I want to prepare as best I can for it. He said the usual dress code is fine, whatever that means, so I'll take it up a notch and swap out my jeans and tennis shoes for a pair gray slacks, a nice sweater, and dress shoes. I also plan on bringing a notebook to log my observations. Is there anything else I'm missing? Is there something I have to do to make this shadowing experience official for the admissions process? This PA I'm shadowing works at the ER, so would it be pretentious of me to bring something to read or work on when things aren't quite as busy? How many times have you all shadowed the same PA before you felt comfortable asking him/her to write an LOR for you (if that's a norm to begin with)? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mktalon Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 If you want to shadow a PA do so because you want to learn about the profession. By the fact that you want to bring study materials for "down time" and are already springing the LOR question tells me that you are just trying to log hours for an app and trying to nail down the obligatory LOR from a PA. Maybe I'm wrong but if I'm not then reevaluate what you are doing. Just remember that your caspa may be able to make you look one way, but your interview will tell all about your sincerity. If this is your first time shadowing then you should use every "down time" minute to be asking questions and learning everything you can. Ask for an LOR when you actually know somebody. It's like asking "how many times do we hang out until we can call ourselves friends?". There is no predetermined number, but the sheer fact that you are asking means you aren't doing this for the right reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul2834 Posted December 30, 2011 Author Share Posted December 30, 2011 Your allegations are off the mark. Contrary to your assumptions, I'm actually feeling really excited about shadowing on Sunday (one reason why I mentioned what I was going to wear and bringing a notebook to remember what I'm going to see). It's that same feeling I got when I was thinking about my first day working full-time as a computer engineer or that first time I was going to go volunteer at my local ER. Yes, there are things I need to get done for the CASPA, like logging hours and letters of recommendations, but that doesn't mean they're my only reasons for meeting with this PA. These are motions that candidates go through, but shadowing is more than that for me. And speaking of the ER, I asked that question because I've been told by the ER staff that work alongside me that I should bring materials to keep me occupied when things aren't that busy. And that's from me only being there 4 hours a week. The PA I'm meeting with on Sunday is working at his ER from 7AM to 11PM. I plan on being there the whole time because I want to see it all. While racking up the hours is good for the CAPSA, I'm more inclined to be there that long because I want to know what a PA's day is like and you can't get that assessment as well just from being there a couple of hours. I want to know how their long and strenuous hours compare to mine when a deadline is quickly approaching. And obviously, if I'm going to be there that long, we're going to run out of things to talk about. Plus, he's probably going to want some alone time too at some point versus humoring me the whole time. Also, I don't see what's so wrong about thinking ahead concerning LORs. They are needed so I have to plan accordingly. How is that malicious intent? I'm asking because I'm trying to figure out where my LORs should be coming from. Like you said, you want someone who knows you to write your LOR and building that relationship takes their precious time. I don't want to become a nuisance to the PA if it means having to shadow with the PA very many times and pushing his altruism over the edge. BUT if it's normal to shadow several times, then I'd be happy to go observe further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterallsummer Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Paul, congrats on finding someone to shadow, that is by far the hardest part of the process. I can relate as I was pretty nervous and excited the first time I shadowed a PA. As far as clothes, khakis and polo is perfect. I wouldn't wear jeans or a t-shirt, it may look unprofessional to some of the patients. But don't wear a tie or anything that'd be over the top. For making the hours "official" - k, when you fill out your application, you simply put his name, title, where he worked, and how many hours. But you will want to email to yourself or write down the days just in case. A FEW schools will actually ask for a signed note from him - out of the 10 or so schools I considered, 1 did, and I ended up dropping it (it wanted a bunch of stuff, big hassle). The others just take your word per what you put on your CASPA app. Now, bringing notebook - I wouldn't, seems a bit excessive IMO. You will have plenty of time to ask him questions but you'll remember what you need to. Don't go in with the attitude of grilling him, once you get to know him (or her) the conversation will flow naturally and you can ask whatever you want! I really don't agree with the other guys post. You are thinking pragmatics which is GOOD. I shadowed my PA for 35 hours (5 shifts, some of them I came in the afternoon) before I asked him for a LOR, which I asked for via email. Honestly I was uncomfortable asking him for it but am glad I did, I did well with my schools and think it definitely was a big boost to my app. As one person told me, "all you can do is ask, worst case scenario he says no". Bringing study materials - eeeh, first day I did not, didn't want to offend him. Turned out I only had ~20 minutes down time anyways. Next day brought something, same thing, didn't get to touch it. Third day brought it and got about 2.5 hours of reading time - he had a ton of stuff to do in his office and I would've been twittling my thumbs if I didn't bring it. I didn't bring it my first day but I don't think it would've offended him if I did. Honestly, if I didn't have it that day we had a bunch of down time (and he does 8s not 12s), I think he may have felt awkward or sent me home early since I'd be basically watching him type on his computer. Tuck it away in his office in the morning and if you need it later, it's there. As far as general advice... try not to get in people's way, be respectful, smile at patients, make sure your phone is OFF!!, don't bombard him with questions but try to get conversations going.. Anything else feel free to ask me. It's gonna be a long night in ICU tonight and I'll be more than glad to try to help you with any more questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted December 30, 2011 Moderator Share Posted December 30, 2011 also remember shadowing is step 1. step 2 is working in healthcare. to do that you need to get a cert like emt, cna, lpn, etc and then try to work 2000 hrs or so at the least to qualify for most programs. some require 1000 hrs, some 2000 hrs, and some 4000 hrs. remember the avg accepted pa student has 3 yrs of full time health care experience(not my stat, it's the aapa's): http://www.aapa.org/your_pa_career/becoming_a_pa.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterallsummer Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Mm.. while I agree more HCE is better, it is not neccesary to have 2000+ hours anymore. I have 3 years... somewhere around maybe 3000 or more hours as a CNA/PCT. BUT at all my interviews, I found many, many of the other applicants had either a) worked in a lab or something with limited patient contact, b) volunteered and shadowed only, or c) worked only summers. I personally wish HCE was more of a factor but from my experience, these days if you get to 2000 hours you are ahead of the game. Just my 2 cents based on the people I met while interviewing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mktalon Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I apologize then that my assumptions were wrong. To put them in context, in the hospital I see premed volunteers all the time who sit there for three hours and do nothing but homework. It is nothing but a number accumulation for them. I should not have been so quick to assume the same of you, but the nature of your three questions just hit a nerve with me. Good luck to you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Steve Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Are you driving to the ER? Would it be possible to leave your books/study material in the car, only to be retrieved when it looks like things are slow? Personally I never shadowed. I had more than enough time working with PAs in health care to cover that base. However, I have had people do "ride alongs" when I worked as a paramedic...the EMS version of "shadowing". I always found it a little weird when they buried their nose in a book during our slow times. It didn't really matter if the book was EMS related. You can read at home. Here they had two captive paramedics, in a field they want to break into but for whatever reason they chose not to utilize this resource. I found myself questioning everything from "did I say something to offend them?" to "I guess they really aren't that interested in this line of work after all". The folks who asked a million questions about everything were fun to be around. That "new guy" energy is fun, positive, and infectious. While I am not yet a PA, I really want to believe that if a PA has agreed to let you shadow, then that PA understands you will have a million questions about everything and is willing to handle that. There are few things on a job that are as enjoyable as mentoring the eager up-comers. Yes, you will ask silly questions but you don't know they are silly, they are innocent because you haven't learned yet. I'd bring a pocket sized note pad or some index cards to jot things down so I wouldn't ask the same question the next day or the next week. The silly questions have a statute of limitations of a couple of times. Try really hard not to ask the same question twice and if you have to ask it a third time, see if there is another resource you can find your answer through. I like PAMAC's point of "wearing a shirt that you could wear a tie with". I may even go so far to put a tie in the car and dress it up a notch as needed. But I come from a military background where looking sharp carried a lot of weight. You will be staying far enough back from the patients where your tie won't be spreading germs from patient to patient and the patients shouldn't be getting their hands on your tie to choke you out. Most of all, have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted December 30, 2011 Moderator Share Posted December 30, 2011 I never shadowed either. I worked with pa's for years. someone above mentioned many applicants have lab or research experience. keep in mind that many programs do not consider that to be direct pt care experience. call any program you are considering before you start down a path of gaining experience that is "atypical". you can't go wrong with emt, cna, medical assistant, lpn, resp. therapy, etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.