salma Posted July 22, 2011 Author So, I've been considering applying to PA school after reading about the wonderful, autonomous jobs many of the PA's have in the states. However, it seems like being a PA in Canada won't be quite as fulfilling of a job. Here's a PA job posting I found for a hospital in Brampton, Ontario: POSITION: Physician Assistant - One (1) Full Time DEPARTMENT/CAMPUS: Emergency - Etobicoke General Hospital Required to work and travel to all Hospital Campuses POSTING NUMBER: 110948 HOURS: 8-12 hours per day, weekdays/weekends (Hours are subject to change in order to meet operational requirements) REPORTS TO: Corporate Chief of Emergency Medicine and Director of Emergency and Critical Care Services GENERAL DESCRIPTION: Under the direction and supervision of a licensed physician in the Emergency Department (ED), and in accordance with the College of Physicians and Surgeons of Ontario's policy on delegation, the Physician Assistant (PA) will work to their full scope of practice under the direct supervision of the ED physician assigned to a pod and will perform the following: " Obtain and document health history as appropriate " Conduct comprehensive and focused physical assessments " Perform ECGs " Collect blood samples " Visual acuity " Implement ACLS and BCLS " IV cannulation " Basic and advanced wound management including suturing " Immobilize fractures or suspected fractures with splints and/or casts " Assist the ED MD in the reduction of fractures and dislocations " Assist in the completion of relevant WSIB, CAS, CCAC, and other work/insurance forms and notes " Monitor patient progress and response to treatment " Accurately convey relevant information and explanations to their supervising physician " Coordinate the care of the patient and ensure that the ED MD performs initial assessment and reassessment in a timely manner within MOHLTC targets " Participate effectively in a collaborative practice model while recognizing their role and limits within the healthcare team " Maintain clear, accurate and appropriate records of the patient encounter and management plan " Practice in accordance to Osler policies and procedures The PA will not act as a principle medical decision maker. QUALIFICATIONS: " Completion of recognized Physician Assistant program " Excellent patient assessment skills " Excellent communication and organizational skills " Ability to prioritize care and make autonomous decisions " Flexibility to meet unit needs (ie. patient care and technology) " A commitment to continual learning and a willingness to grow " B.C.L.S., A.C.L.S. preferred " Recent Emergency Experience would be an asset " Excellent computer skills " Excellent attendance, punctuality and work record " May be required to travel and work between all hospital campuses https://recruit.williamoslerhs.ca/eRecruit/VacancyDetail.aspx?VacancyUID=000000006822 I'm beginning to think that a PA career in Canada will be incredibly restrictive and frustrating. This is unfortunate.
salma Posted July 22, 2011 So, I've been considering applying to PA school after reading about the wonderful, autonomous jobs many of the PA's have in the states. However, it seems like being a PA in Canada won't be quite as fulfilling of a job. Here's a PA job posting I found for a hospital in Brampton, Ontario: POSITION: Physician Assistant - One (1) Full Time DEPARTMENT/CAMPUS: Emergency - Etobicoke General Hospital Required to work and travel to all Hospital Campuses POSTING NUMBER: 110948 HOURS: 8-12 hours per day, weekdays/weekends (Hours are subject to change in order to meet operational requirements) REPORTS TO: Corporate Chief of Emergency Medicine and Director of Emergency and Critical Care Services GENERAL DESCRIPTION: Under the direction and supervision of a licensed physician in the Emergency Department (ED), and in accordance with the College of Physicians and Surgeons of Ontario's policy on delegation, the Physician Assistant (PA) will work to their full scope of practice under the direct supervision of the ED physician assigned to a pod and will perform the following: " Obtain and document health history as appropriate " Conduct comprehensive and focused physical assessments " Perform ECGs " Collect blood samples " Visual acuity " Implement ACLS and BCLS " IV cannulation " Basic and advanced wound management including suturing " Immobilize fractures or suspected fractures with splints and/or casts " Assist the ED MD in the reduction of fractures and dislocations " Assist in the completion of relevant WSIB, CAS, CCAC, and other work/insurance forms and notes " Monitor patient progress and response to treatment " Accurately convey relevant information and explanations to their supervising physician " Coordinate the care of the patient and ensure that the ED MD performs initial assessment and reassessment in a timely manner within MOHLTC targets " Participate effectively in a collaborative practice model while recognizing their role and limits within the healthcare team " Maintain clear, accurate and appropriate records of the patient encounter and management plan " Practice in accordance to Osler policies and procedures The PA will not act as a principle medical decision maker. QUALIFICATIONS: " Completion of recognized Physician Assistant program " Excellent patient assessment skills " Excellent communication and organizational skills " Ability to prioritize care and make autonomous decisions " Flexibility to meet unit needs (ie. patient care and technology) " A commitment to continual learning and a willingness to grow " B.C.L.S., A.C.L.S. preferred " Recent Emergency Experience would be an asset " Excellent computer skills " Excellent attendance, punctuality and work record " May be required to travel and work between all hospital campuses https://recruit.williamoslerhs.ca/eRecruit/VacancyDetail.aspx?VacancyUID=000000006822 I'm beginning to think that a PA career in Canada will be incredibly restrictive and frustrating. This is unfortunate.
sk732 Posted July 23, 2011 I wouldn't judge restrictions on that posting - the HFO trial sites have fairly robust and progressive rules of engagement, as they do in Manitoba. That site is fairly new to the PA world, so they'll have to take their time getting getting to know whoever gets in there and what they can do...I'm thinking they're looking for a new grad, since I sent them my resume and they didn't even respond (I've got 3 years experience). I had immediate responses from the other 2 sites I applied to and I'm accepting a job in rural Manitoba. If you want to look for work in Ontario, go to the HFO website for PA's and write to then direct asking to be put on their info list. SK
sk732 Posted July 23, 2011 I wouldn't judge restrictions on that posting - the HFO trial sites have fairly robust and progressive rules of engagement, as they do in Manitoba. That site is fairly new to the PA world, so they'll have to take their time getting getting to know whoever gets in there and what they can do...I'm thinking they're looking for a new grad, since I sent them my resume and they didn't even respond (I've got 3 years experience). I had immediate responses from the other 2 sites I applied to and I'm accepting a job in rural Manitoba. If you want to look for work in Ontario, go to the HFO website for PA's and write to then direct asking to be put on their info list. SK
andersenpa Posted July 23, 2011 DO your own IVs, blood draws and ECGs.... The doc does the initial assessment.... Not a primary decision maker..... Sounds like a glorified tech, not a medical practitioner.... Now THAT is a physician "assistant"......
andersenpa Posted July 23, 2011 DO your own IVs, blood draws and ECGs.... The doc does the initial assessment.... Not a primary decision maker..... Sounds like a glorified tech, not a medical practitioner.... Now THAT is a physician "assistant"......
sk732 Posted July 23, 2011 I do all that stuff myself - even run and dispense my own meds. I do make most primary decisions with few exceptions and do all initial assessments when I don't have a juniro medic with me. I guess I should mention - I work alone 95% of the time. BTW, being able to do that stuff really has endeared me on a number of occasions to the ER staffs at the hospitals I've worked at, because when we're getting slammed, every little bit helps. I'll say it again, slightly differently - don't base what you're allowed to do by reading that ONE job posting...most postings for PA jobs aren't found on open source internet, you have to go to HFO or the regional health authority sites. This is still a very young profession outside the Canadian Forces here, but you'll find that the vast majority of the folks practicing have a greater degree of autonomy than this poor soul will likely have at the outset. Having said that, go to Winnipeg, it's written in black and white the amount of supervision you're to have at the start of work, and benchmarks are established of where you should be as far as what and how you do things, what you can prescribe, etc after "x" months in whatever specialty you're working in. It's like a mini residency - if you fall back or aren't where they think you should be by a certain point, you could be released from the job at worst or have your privileges curtailed at best. SK
sk732 Posted July 23, 2011 I do all that stuff myself - even run and dispense my own meds. I do make most primary decisions with few exceptions and do all initial assessments when I don't have a juniro medic with me. I guess I should mention - I work alone 95% of the time. BTW, being able to do that stuff really has endeared me on a number of occasions to the ER staffs at the hospitals I've worked at, because when we're getting slammed, every little bit helps. I'll say it again, slightly differently - don't base what you're allowed to do by reading that ONE job posting...most postings for PA jobs aren't found on open source internet, you have to go to HFO or the regional health authority sites. This is still a very young profession outside the Canadian Forces here, but you'll find that the vast majority of the folks practicing have a greater degree of autonomy than this poor soul will likely have at the outset. Having said that, go to Winnipeg, it's written in black and white the amount of supervision you're to have at the start of work, and benchmarks are established of where you should be as far as what and how you do things, what you can prescribe, etc after "x" months in whatever specialty you're working in. It's like a mini residency - if you fall back or aren't where they think you should be by a certain point, you could be released from the job at worst or have your privileges curtailed at best. SK
salma Posted July 23, 2011 Author Thanks for the info sk732. I'm actually not even a PA student yet, but I wanted to know what I'd be getting myself in to. What you've described certainly sounds like a better job description. I really hope the PA profession catches on in Ontario within the next few years. P.S. Would you happen to know the average salary a PA can expect to earn in Ontario?
salma Posted July 23, 2011 Author Thanks for the info sk732. I'm actually not even a PA student yet, but I wanted to know what I'd be getting myself in to. What you've described certainly sounds like a better job description. I really hope the PA profession catches on in Ontario within the next few years. P.S. Would you happen to know the average salary a PA can expect to earn in Ontario?
sk732 Posted July 24, 2011 Depends on where the funding is coming from - I've seen base ranges from 70K up to 100+; Manitoba guidelines start in in 80K - 109, depending on specialty. Right now the funds are coming in via a combination of government and locally so that the class from Mac that just graduated actually had jobs to go to. The original HFO demo project was fully funded by the Ministry. SK
sk732 Posted July 24, 2011 Depends on where the funding is coming from - I've seen base ranges from 70K up to 100+; Manitoba guidelines start in in 80K - 109, depending on specialty. Right now the funds are coming in via a combination of government and locally so that the class from Mac that just graduated actually had jobs to go to. The original HFO demo project was fully funded by the Ministry. SK
UllrPrincess Posted July 25, 2011 I'm actually going to be applying to schools in the states for this reason. Canada is definitely behind in what they are allowing the PAs to do (I do think Manitoba is quite a bit better than Ontario from what I've read but I could be wrong). I just read an article on the CAPA website about some of the stuff PAs aren't able to do in Canada and it's pretty discouraging. I feel like I would be able to get a better education in states and be able to learn more skills. I also feel like it I would learn more in states from working with doctors and other PAs who understand what they do and how they are utilized.
UllrPrincess Posted July 25, 2011 I'm actually going to be applying to schools in the states for this reason. Canada is definitely behind in what they are allowing the PAs to do (I do think Manitoba is quite a bit better than Ontario from what I've read but I could be wrong). I just read an article on the CAPA website about some of the stuff PAs aren't able to do in Canada and it's pretty discouraging. I feel like I would be able to get a better education in states and be able to learn more skills. I also feel like it I would learn more in states from working with doctors and other PAs who understand what they do and how they are utilized.
sk732 Posted August 1, 2011 Fact is that you can't hit the ground running in full gear until you've done some long route marches with increasing weight - in English, we aren't going to be able to be all and do all just yet. The profession outside of the military isn't all that old, so we still have to show the end users - physicians, surgeons, hospitals and clinics who and what we are and what we're capable of doing. The medical education system also has to become accustomed to us as well - it is in some areas where the the military guys and gals have trained, but it's still pretty limited. It's getting there though :). SK
sk732 Posted August 1, 2011 Fact is that you can't hit the ground running in full gear until you've done some long route marches with increasing weight - in English, we aren't going to be able to be all and do all just yet. The profession outside of the military isn't all that old, so we still have to show the end users - physicians, surgeons, hospitals and clinics who and what we are and what we're capable of doing. The medical education system also has to become accustomed to us as well - it is in some areas where the the military guys and gals have trained, but it's still pretty limited. It's getting there though :). SK
sk732 Posted May 19, 2012 Only one's you'll likely see there are military students at Van General doing their trauma rotations...PA's aren't recognized in BC yet. SK
pafguy77 Posted June 27, 2012 Curious to know why PAs aren't recognized in BC. How do other provinces compare with BC?
eunice83 Posted December 13, 2012 hey I just graduated from the States with my MS-PA in august 2012 and currently living in Toronto. I've been looking for a job for a month with no luck.. Any ideas or suggestions on how to secure an entry level position would be greatly appreciated. Thanks all.
asdf Posted February 9, 2013 Currently trying to find more info on the state of PAs in Canada with no luck. eunice83, have you considered approaching clinics, that may not be looking for a new doctor, but willing to consider PAs? Is this even possible in Canada or are they restricted to hospital positions funded by the government?
dhara123 Posted June 7, 2013 hey I just graduated from the States with my MS-PA in august 2012 and currently living in Toronto. I've been looking for a job for a month with no luck.. Any ideas or suggestions on how to secure an entry level position would be greatly appreciated. Thanks all. Hi eunice83. I too graduated from the states with a masters and am in Ottawa, ON. I've been looking for a job for over 3 months now with now luck. Have you found a position? and do you have any advice for me?? Thanks!!
sk732 Posted July 4, 2013 Curious to know why PAs aren't recognized in BC. How do other provinces compare with BC? Sorry been awhile getting back on here...BC had a pile of money spent on making NP's, so they want to use them for a bit it would seem. I'm currently out of the military, working in rural Manitoba, where things have been up and running for sometime now. Sounds alot like things went a couple steps back in BC due to a SNAFU with the Ministry of Health. Ontario is starting to get a little busier job wise, and Alberta is starting a rural pilot project. For the folks still looking for work, a few jobs in Manitoba have opened up with the Assisniboine Regional Health Authority - these are largely rural, various specialties. Also, check the CAPA website if you're a member, as some jobs are listed there that you won't find on the mainstream web. SK
Whitcc1 Posted December 15, 2014 Any new updates on PAs practicing in BC? I was born in Burnaby and have been living in the states ever since... Needless to say; returning to Canada and practicing has always interested me but not sure he trade offs are worth it. Any new progress for our neighbors to the north? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
sk732 Posted February 20, 2015 Sorry about the late response - have been off here for a bit...as yet, I haven't heard a thing yet, save that all was going back to the Ministry of Health to restart things, and that was about a year ago. The new CAPA regional rep for there is working hard to get things back on track there...I wouldn't mind going back, since I still have a house in Victoria - might as well live in it since I'm paying for it :-). More to follow I'm sure. SK
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