Attrition

[NorthernDreamer]

I'm a first-semester student in a fairly new PA program.  I had a 4.0 GPA for all my postbac coursework (40+ credits), but I'm struggling just to keep my head above water.  I'm not failing any of my classes, but I'm afraid I might wind up with below the minimum 3.0 GPA this semester and be on probation.  My program allows you to be on probation only once during the entire program....if you fall below a 3.0 a second time, you're out.  At least, that's the policy as stated in the student handbook.

 

So I'm wondering:  if I do wind up on probation, do I cut my losses and leave the program at the end of the semester?   If it seems I'm at risk of dropping below a 3.0 a second time and getting booted, this would seem like the best option rather than to waste more time and tens of thousands of dollars.  On the other hand, I do know that: 1) other students are struggling with grades, and 2) from all I've read, PA programs will do everything possible to not lose students.  Our cohort has already lost two (ostensibly, one for career choice reasons and the other for health reasons) in the first 7 weeks.

 

Can anyone (especially those of you who are done or nearly done) shed any light on this?  Thanks!

[UGoLong]

There was a lot of soul-searching in PA school. For me it was especially in the first semester. Students have to figure out what study techniques work best for them in each class. Exams get blown at times. It’s all part of the learning experience. As you noted, you are not alone.

 

What I remember was wondering if I would pass, and that was a strange concept for someone who did well in an academic career that by then had already stretched several decades. I eventually settled on a philosophy of wanting to pass if only to see what would happen next.  I kept trying new techniques and eventually got through a rough patch or two.

 

I don’t recommend focusing on what will happen if you get below a 3.0 for two semesters in a row. That’s catastrophizing and getting you to focus not on what to do next, but on cutting your losses by saving money.

 

You have gone through quite a bit just to get where you are. You are following a dream. Don’t be focusing on your strategy two semesters out. Instead focus now on trying some different approaches to studying. Don’t dwell so much on past miscues and possible future disasters.

 

 

This morning, you are still a PA student. Be the best one you can be. Don’t quit on yourself.

[Johnson2018pac]

Well I'm a third semester student and I know we have a similar policy about staying at least 3.0 but that doesn't begin until you have had either 2 or 3 semesters...that way you have a little more cushion if you happen to get a C or 2 along the way. If we had the same policy that started day one, I'm sure we would have lost a ton of student due to the gross anatomy and physiology. Check to make sure this policy doesn't go into effect after the 2nd or 3rd semester...

 

Also, don't ever let it go through your head as to what you will do if all that happens...you made the cut and got in, now buckle down and do the work. You would not have gotten in if you weren't capable of it. If you leave or get removed from your program I highly doubt you will get into another one...even if you have to study 12 hours a day 7 days a week, do it...

[NorthernDreamer]

Thanks to UGoLong and Radioman for your thoughtful replies, and thanks for your encouragement.  Although your points about "buckling down" and trying new approaches to studying (I'm doing that) are well taken, I actually do it more helpful to think about what will happen if I don't make it.  The real catastrophe will be if I fail out and don't have any plan going forward.  Knowing the world won't end if I don't make it through PA school actually helps attenuate the daily anxiety.  In the meanwhile, the best I can do is the best I can do and take it day by day.

 

And yes, our program does have a 3.0 policy from the first semester.  I don't know how strictly it's enforced, but there doesn't seem to have been a lot of attrition from the upper classes (a good thing!)  What I'm trying to get a sense for is just how much leeway there might be if I don't get a 3.0.  If I only get one chance to fix things and I use it the first semester, the risk may just be too great going forward.  By no means am I giving up on my dreams...but I am old enough to know and accept that often, life doesn't turn out the way you think it will or should.  Then, you have to make the best decision about what to do next.   The better prepared you are the better off you'll be in the end.

[UGoLong]

Northern,

 

I kind of get your point but I also don't!

 

There was a day before which you weren't in PA school and you did fine. If you are, in the future, faced with having to leave PA school, you'll be fine again. You'll just take a different path; your life won't end and you would hopefully find another dream worthy of you. I know of too many people who build their plan "B" like it's Superman's rocket to escape from the exploding Planet Krypton and "leak" psychic energy that they could have used to execute their Plan "A". 

 

More broadly, there is virtually no end to all of life's contingencies you "could" be planning for. Loss of a spouse, a fatal disease, whatever. It's one thing to buy life insurance or save money for retirement, etc. Those are contingencies that benefit from a plan and prior action. It's another to focus on all the things in life that could throw at you that could block you from your current dream.

 

I recommend that you develop trust in your own capacity and endurance to do whatever has to be done when -- and if -- it should happen to come along. And then focus on what's in front of you that needs doing.

 

I don't think you can should be leaking energy when you are following your dream.

[Disciple3]

Hooyah never quit.  Not just a motto, it should be a way of life. 

[NorthernDreamer]

Again, we're all different.  What helps me may not help you, and vice-versa.  I don't think I'm "leaking energy" if, by accepting that I may fail at my dream of becoming a PA, I find the energy to keep going.  Maybe for you that wouldn't work, but you're not me and I'm not you.  I guess in my original post I was looking for perspective, not advice, and should have made that clear.  Thank you nonetheless for your thoughtful and heartfelt comments.

 

Now:  back to gross anatomy!  I'm determined to master the lateral rotator group before bed!

[UGoLong]

I think you will find that perspective is often advice and, when you put your thoughts out there on a forum, you get what you get. You are indeed you; just take what you want and leave the rest. We are each the captain of our own ship.

 

Best wishes on gross anatomy and what follows.

[DejaBlu]

One of the most important things that I have found to be helpful throughout my academic journey is to get to know your professors.  They are there to help you succeed.  If you let them know you're struggling, they may be able to give you some extra resources (books, study guides, websites, etc) that may help. 

 

Also, see if your school has tutors and utilize them if they do.  If not, try and get together with some other students and organize study groups.  That may or may not be possible depending on schedules but I have found it to be helpful. 

 

Like so many people have said in earlier posts, you've gone through a lot to get where you are so try not to beat yourself up!!  Think positive!!!!!

[MT2PA]

One of the most important things that I have found to be helpful throughout my academic journey is to get to know your professors.  They are there to help you succeed.  If you let them know you're struggling, they may be able to give you some extra resources (books, study guides, websites, etc) that may help. 

 

Also, see if your school has tutors and utilize them if they do.  If not, try and get together with some other students and organize study groups.  That may or may not be possible depending on schedules but I have found it to be helpful. 

 

Like so many people have said in earlier posts, you've gone through a lot to get where you are so try not to beat yourself up!!  Think positive!!!!!

^^THIS!!  If you are struggling, seek help now before it's too late.  Also, if your school knows you are seeking help and WANT to succeed I imagine they will be more understanding *if* you would happen to be on probation.  They are much more likely to look favorably on a student who is trying vs one who doesn't get the grades due to lack of effort or callous attitude.

[NorthernDreamer]

Yes, of course I've done all of the above:  worked individually and in groups, tried different study techniques (writing things out, flashcards, internet resources), spoken with my advisor and professors about my concerns and my grades, gone to academic support services, gotten a medical workup for memory issues (at least one organic issue was identified, for which I see my doctor this afternoon), and I'm getting evaluated for ADHD.  I make sure I eat well, excercise daily, and get enough sleep (generally).

 

I'm not failing anything (yet) but I will probably come out with a few C's, which will put my first-semester GPA at less than the 3.0 I need to continue in good standing.  If I go on probation, I get one semester to get my GPA above a 3.0 and if it ever drops below a 3.0 again I'm done.  So even if I pulled it together in my second semester, I still have four more to go and there would be a high risk that I would drop below a 3.0 again.  So, if I don't get a 3.0 or better this semester, it seems to me there is no point in me continuing PA school because I will probably not be able to finish.  I would only plow myself further into debt and prolong the time it will take me to get into another career.  I need to start thinking NOW about what my plans will be in January if I don't continue with PA school because I will need to know I have a future in order to get through what will have been the most emotionally and financially devastating failure in my life.  Why is that so hard for so many of you to understand?

 

Again, what I'm looking for is perspective on how strictly the rules on GPA are likely to be enforced (especially during the first semester), not advice on what to do.  If there is anyone out there who has been in my situation, I would appreciate a thoughtful reply.  While I'm sure they're well-intended, generic encouragements like "buckle down and study" or "don't ever give up" are not helpful.

[cop to pa]

The strict enforcement on your GPA is through your school. Doubtful anyone here can assist there, especially since we don't know which school.

[Disciple3]

I understand the doubts, but I think once you get into the groove and pull it together here it will all work out.  I want to say programs are more lenient at the very start because they know how intense it is right off the bat, especially if you are communicating with them and trying your best.  I personally would not quit until they took me and threw me out, but that's just me.  Good luck with whatever you choose.

[dchampigny]

Hooyah never quit.  Not just a motto, it should be a way of life. 

 

 

This can't be stressed enough....

 

Being "dismissed" from a program is always something that looms over any student's head...especially early on in the program. Being tossed into the deep end and being expected to find a way to not only float, but swim, is certainly daunting.  It is hard and requires your utmost effort and dedication in every aspect of it. The thought of "cutting your losses" and walking away is something I whole heartedly disagree with from the OP. It comes to the point where every day just becomes an all out, head down, grind. There should not be any cutting losses or giving up. Give it 150% percent, all day, every day. But don't walk away when things get difficult.

 

Every PA I've talked to has acknowledged the "grind" portion of PA school. One of our advisors met with us during the first semester of our schooling and told us that at every point of his program, he knew exactly what his averages were in all of his classes and his overall GPA. It was just the way he stayed afloat. He studied from AM to PM and back to AM again. Another PA who is currently my preceptor for one of my rotations told me that every single day was a reminder of how difficult the schooling was, but "somehow, I came out whole on the other side".

 

The difficulty is real. But don't walk away from it. If you are going to go down, go down kicking, screaming, and punching. There are a lot of people on these forums that would kill to be where you are and despite the struggle, this is something that you can do. Thousands have gone before you and came out alive on the other side!

[UGoLong]

OP,

 

From reading your comments -- and those back to you over the past few days -- I don't think you are going to get the validation you seek for your plan. And you don't need it; it's your life to decide as you will.

 

But don't expect us to get your plan either. I sense that no matter what suggestions we may make, they would get met with "of course I tried that" or "why is it so hard for all of you to understand." Understand what? That you have decided that you aren't going to make it this semester and so it doesn't make sense to try a second semester? Only you can make that call.

 

If PA school is not the right place for you, you should set sail in a new direction. Unfortunately, few of the readers of the "PA Forum" have sailed away from the PA path. Not that you shouldn't, but I think you might be fishing in the wrong stream if you want either validation to do that (which you really don't need) or experience doing that from the readers here.

 

Honestly, best wishes, but please stop complaining at those of us who respond to your notes with answers you don't like. It's unbecoming and unnecessary.

[MT2PA]

 

Again, what I'm looking for is perspective on how strictly the rules on GPA are likely to be enforced (especially during the first semester), not advice on what to do. If there is anyone out there who has been in my situation, I would appreciate a thoughtful reply. While I'm sure they're well-intended, generic encouragements like "buckle down and study" or "don't ever give up" are not helpful.

Okay, best answer? It depends on the school. Seriously. They all have a GPA minimum so they can give you the boot if they want to and are well within their rights to enforce it. But every school is different about when that takes places (first semester vs later) and how strictly they adhere so you'd be better served by asking this question to former students of your program specifically.

 

That said, there's another post on this forum recently about someone who did get let go from a program due to grades while other people from that same program were able to appeal and stay in. So even within a single program there's variation.

 

Personally I think schools do enforce this but a good program will do what it can to help you before it becomes an issue. Not sure where your program stands on that spectrum. Honestly, if you're really concerned, ask your program directly. That's how you're going to find out how strictly they follow it and if there's an appeals process, etc. My program clearly stated this in our student handbook, maybe yours does too.

[NorthernDreamer]

Thanks, MT2PA. That is exactly the kind of perspective I've been looking for.  

 

I've been meeting regularly with my advisor, who has continuously reassured me that I am actually doing very well and not in any danger of being placed on academic probation despite the fact that most of my grades are on the B/C cusp (my program requires a 3.0 to continue in good standing).  I've actually been told that I'm above the 50th percentile overall.  This is not particularly reassuring because that would mean half the class is either right on the edge or below the bar.  So, either a whole lot of students will wind up on probation...or there will be a whole lot of curving.  I suspect it will be the latter.  

 

If I do wind up below a 3.0, I have made a definite decision to cut my losses and move on.  If I have to work this hard and not even meet the minimum standards, then this definitely isn't for me.  There are plenty of other careers in medicine.

 

Thanks again for your help!

[Rosslyn]

Thanks, MT2PA. That is exactly the kind of perspective I've been looking for.  

 

I've been meeting regularly with my advisor, who has continuously reassured me that I am actually doing very well and not in any danger of being placed on academic probation despite the fact that most of my grades are on the B/C cusp (my program requires a 3.0 to continue in good standing).  I've actually been told that I'm above the 50th percentile overall.  This is not particularly reassuring because that would mean half the class is either right on the edge or below the bar.  So, either a whole lot of students will wind up on probation...or there will be a whole lot of curving.  I suspect it will be the latter.  

 

If I do wind up below a 3.0, I have made a definite decision to cut my losses and move on.  If I have to work this hard and not even meet the minimum standards, then this definitely isn't for me.  There are plenty of other careers in medicine.

 

Thanks again for your help!

Despite reassurances that you're not close to probation and that you're doing better than at least half of your cohort, you're still convinced that you will not be able to maintain a 3.0. This is beyond coping, beyond dealing with stress. You don't seem to have confidence in your abilities, or you don't really want this. It feels like you're making excuses for dropping out because the reality is, you're nowhere near being put on probation. You might not like hearing this, but someone has to tell you: you really need to do some soul searching on why you're convinced you'll fail out of PA school despite all evidence saying otherwise.

[NorthernDreamer]

Thanks for your reply.  My whole point is that I don't understand how, if I was doing "average" with mostly B's and C's, half the class wouldn't wind up on probation.  As for where I stand now:  I have 4 credits that will probably be A/A- and another 4 credits that will likely be C.  I still have several exams to take; all those classes are on the B/C cusp and I feel very inadequately prepared for all of them.  In any case:  I feel like this whole experience has been one of putting out fires and I haven't retained much of anything.  I couldn't tell you without looking at my notes what kind of epithelium lines the small intestine, how to treat a basic sinus infection, or where brachioradialis goes.  Never in my life have I felt like I've had a lower return for the amount of effort I've put into something.  You are correct:  regardless of my grades and whether I wind up on probation or not, I really have to do some soul-searching to figure out whether PA school is the right place for me.  I'm thinking right now that it probably isn't, and that I'd be better off doing something I could learn at a slower pace and actually retain.