tbrandenstein Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 My wife has just began her career as a physician, and we don't plan on moving any time soon (I realize that lack of flexibility will make it that much harder to get in to PA school). So, I am in the unfortunate predicament of trying to get into a program that is (relatively) near. There are 2 in the state in which I reside, that are drivable (Butler and IUPUI, both in Indy) and one in Ohio (Kettering, Dayton). I have a degree in psych (so I need quite a few bio/chem classes with labs) and am in the process of trying to get the pre-reqs done to satisfy these schools. About 2/3 of them overlap between the 3 schools, but there are a few odd-balls that would only apply to one school (such as physics for Butler, nutrition for IUPUI, and biochem and microbio for Kettering). Of the 3 schools, only Kettering has specific credit hour requirements for each pre-req (in particular 8 credit hours for A&P 1/2). My local CC has it as 6, although they do offer and advanced class for another 3. I am sure that they use these requirements to weed out applicants that only have a 6cr for A&P 1/2 (or 3cr. microbio or biochem class, when according to their site, they call for 4cr hours). Has anyone run into this? For people that already have degrees in these areas (bio or chem) has taking a class that is short 1cr. kept them from applying to certain schools? Does anyone have any insight into this phenomenon? It seems that I'm shooting myself in the foot to cut out 1 of 3 schools that I am trying to get into, on account of them wanting a specfic number of credit hours per class. Thanks! tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MedicinePower Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 Your goal shouldn't be to meet the minimal requirements but to exceed those requirements. With the extreme amount of competition that exists for PA school you need to demonstrate you have gone over and above what the schools require. I agree that a course in nutrition is a definite oddball (while micro is essential knowledge) but taking them all would certainly distinguish yourself as someone who is academically sound. In addition you'll need Health Care Hours (HCE), usually best gotten in the form of EMT or similar work. Lastly, try to spend 50-100 hours shadowing PAs in various fields. All of these things make you a competitive candidate for PA school. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbrandenstein Posted January 1, 2014 Author Share Posted January 1, 2014 I completely agree with what you are saying as far as HCE and EMT, but how would I go above and beyond in regards to what the pre-reqs are? Should I get another degree? I'm kidding but hopefully you see my point. I am familiar with competitive programs. I wandered into a neuroscience PhD program when initially applying to clinical psychology graduate programs in 2008. After 2 years in that program I realized it was a poor fit. After much soul searching, I have decided to go back to graduate school, but for PA. Having said that, I'm in my 30s, and it will take me about a year to take chem 2, orgo, and about 5 other classes, as well as phlebotomy courses to get my foot into a hospital. I know that phleb is low on the list of HCE, but it's a start. I am not trying "an easy way" to get into PA school. There are no large universities around, and I currently work full time. To me it just seemed strange that Kettering wants 4cr per class, when my local CC offers them at 3cr. The other schools I've looked at didn't have any requirements as to the number of credits per class, just a lab. I was wondering if this type of situation has kept anyone from a particular school, which I suppose is an effective way to widdle down the number of students that qualify. You never really answered this. Thank you for your reply!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbrandenstein Posted January 1, 2014 Author Share Posted January 1, 2014 After considering your answer, I realized that I'm just venting :) I'm trying to get these classes done as timely as possible (4 classes per semester), and it's much easier to do so taking classes hybrid/online through the local CC, than trying to take them at the university satellite... since I'm working full time. What I need to do is just email Kettering and ask them about these requirements. Basically I would just need to take the "advanced" A&P class, which would give my 9cr total (through CC). I just feel like it kind of pidgeon holes me into classes at the university satellite, which I can't do at the moment b/c of work. I'm going to have to start going in-person to class that require lab over the summer, so if I wanted to apply to Kettering, and follow their guidelines, it might just take a little longer. Patience is not one of my virtues :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MedicinePower Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 You should contact the local schools to see how they would react to the CC's courses. It could be they won't accept them and you'll have to do UNE's online courses, which are very high quality. Ask the PA schools you are interested in about both the CC credits and UNE's. http://www.une.edu/com/online/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UGoLong Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 1. My first piece of advice is to take a breath. It might take you time to get where you want to be, but you can get there. You aren't that old and you have time. 2. Why is your search so limited? You considered Dayton and Indy, but not Ft. Wayne or Toledo or Findlay. You may also be able to go even farther afield, live at school, and come home on weekends. I did that for my didactic and then moved back home for clinicals. It would only be for a year. 3. Some schools list their requirements by quarter hour and some by semester. Make sure you know which they are quoting. As I recall from friends who went to Kettering, they seem to encourage people to take prereqs there, which is not easy for some people to arrange, 4. The best way to consider a school and get answers is to arrange a visit and talk with the academic coordinator. It is also a chance to make an impression. 5. You need to preserve your family's finances for now too. If it is best for you to take classes in CC, then do that. Most schools accept that and that is particularly true if you have already established an academic record in traditional colleges. 6. You do need a strategy for getting healthcare experience. It does not have to be in hospital but it certainly can be. In the midwest, being an EMT often works, including time as a volunteer and part-time paid (I did both). Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbrandenstein Posted January 1, 2014 Author Share Posted January 1, 2014 Thank you both for the help, sorry if I came off like an a$$. I know it will take time (and patience), and some days I handle that better than others! I really hadn't considered that the first year of the two would be the only one I'd need to be away for (didactic). I guess I don't really have a good understanding of how the clinical part works (year two). I'm also looking at UNE, which seems like a great resource... albeit it expensive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MedicinePower Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 Thank you both for the help, sorry if I came off like an a$$. I know it will take time (and patience), and some days I handle that better than others! I really hadn't considered that the first year of the two would be the only one I'd need to be away for (didactic). I guess I don't really have a good understanding of how the clinical part works (year two). I'm also looking at UNE, which seems like a great resource... albeit it expensive! Regarding the UNE courses, you may be able to get your CC to help pay for them by registering in your CCs biology degree program (if they have one) and asking for financial aid to take courses unavailable at the CC. Have a chat with their financial aid and academic advising folks to see what is available. I am doing this now through the college I have done all of my pre-reqs at and it seems to be allowing me to use financial aid for the UNE courses as they are not available at my college. Your mileage may vary, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UGoLong Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 You didn't come off like an a$$. It is frustrating not being able to just reach over and get to your goal. But that is pretty much how it usually is. You will feel better when you are making progress, even if it will be a longer road than you first thought. Different schools handle clinicals differently. Where I went, you could do your clinicals over a wide geographic area. Or you could try to find your own. With more schools cropping up, finding clinical sites has gotten harder, but probably still doable for you. Another set of questions for your informal school visit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kem2127 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Just a thought but check with the schools that you are going to be applying to. Sometimes labs are counted as 0 credits instead of 1 credit because they are considered a mandatory requirement of the lecture component which could be why the courses for A&P 1&2 can be 6 instead of 8 credits. If that is the case check with the schools you will be applying to as it may be the equivalent of 6 lecture credits and 2 labs for 8 credits. How a lab can be worth 0 credits as you pay for it and also get a grade for it on your transcript I never understood, but my undergraduate program did it that way. Their reasoning was that labs didn't count towards your minimum 120 credits or whatever it is for the graduation requirement for a BS degree like lecture classes did, and I didn't have a problem with it transferring over as an 8 credit pre req. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliss929 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 In my application experience, Community College courses are more widely accepted than online courses (i.e. UNE). Several PA schools specifically state that they do not accept online labs. I completed ALL of my prerequisites at community colleges and was invited to interview at four top-10 ranked schools. I wouldn't shy away from CC classes, they'll save you a bunch of money on prerequisites (where I'm from, CC courses cost $90/credit) and you will likely be in a smaller class, which provides for a more individualized teaching experience (no TAs, no lecture hall full of hundreds of students). I highly recommend compiling a spreadsheet to organize the prerequisites of each school that you're interested in applying to. That way, you'll be able to see which schools have similar prerequisites, and it may also help you narrow down your search. I know that I crossed Butler off of my list because of the Physics requirement, which would have pushed me into next year's application cycle. Unless a school's website specifically states that they don't allow CC credits, then 99% of the time, it's not a problem. The only schools that I came across that did not allow CC credits (at all, or for certain courses) were Northeastern, Iowa, and Yale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MedicinePower Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 aliss, it's interesting you mention that. I did all of my pre-reqs at a CC but Western Michigan Univ's PA program is refusing to accept my A&P 1 and 2 (with lab) because "it was only at a 200 level". I had the professor of the course (a physician who teaches this course for prospective PA and NP students) write to WMU to explain that the course number was only due to the CC status but met and exceeded the requirements for WMU's PA program. In addition this professor teaches the same exact class at a 4 year school but WMU wasn't interested in hearing from him and went with their party line of "it's only a 200 level course, we require a 300 level course". Interestingly WMU says they fully accept UNE's Medical Physiology course. Strange and illogical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliss929 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 aliss, it's interesting you mention that. I did all of my pre-reqs at a CC but Western Michigan Univ's PA program is refusing to accept my A&P 1 and 2 (with lab) because "it was only at a 200 level". I had the professor of the course (a physician who teaches this course for prospective PA and NP students) write to WMU to explain that the course number was only due to the CC status but met and exceeded the requirements for WMU's PA program. In addition this professor teaches the same exact class at a 4 year school but WMU wasn't interested in hearing from him and went with their party line of "it's only a 200 level course, we require a 300 level course". Interestingly WMU says they fully accept UNE's Medical Physiology course. Strange and illogical. If the school specifically states that they require a 300 level course, then yes, CC credits are out of the question. I believe this is also the case at University of Iowa. Moral of the story is to read each PA program's website very carefully. Requirements like these are an easy way for a PA school to narrow down their long list of applicants. My CC credits were welcomed with open arms at Duke, George Washington, Emory, Baylor, Cornell, and Wichita State. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MedicinePower Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 If the school specifically states that they require a 300 level course, then yes, CC credits are out of the question. I believe this is also the case at University of Iowa. Moral of the story is to read each PA program's website very carefully. Requirements like these are an easy way for a PA school to narrow down their long list of applicants. My CC credits were welcomed with open arms at Duke, George Washington, Emory, Baylor, Cornell, and Wichita State. I would tend to agree, except that the number associated with a course has such variability. When the same exact course by the same professor with the same exams and same labs is 300 at a 4-year college but 200 at a CC there needs to be some critical thinking skills applied. What if the 4-year school simply called it A&P 101 and 102, but it was taught as a junior-level course? The course number might imply a freshman-level course, which is why critical thinking is absolutely necessary. Not everyone can afford to go to a private 4-year college and rely heavily on the CC for accessibility, so there is even an issue of classism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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