Cardiology PA in the Navy

[Redeemed1999]

Hello. I will be beginning my junior year this coming fall. My goal is to be a Cardiology PA, and I am heavily considering applying for the HSCP scholarship through the Navy. Are there any Cardiology PA's in the Navy? Is it possible to specialize in cardiology while serving? Are there any specialties for Navy PA's that would be similar to cardiology (cardiothoracic surgery, etc.)? Any information would be appreciated!

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

You can be in family, operational, emergency, general surgery, ortho surgery. Those are the choices in the navy.

[Redeemed1999]

What exactly is the operational specialty? 

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

1 hour ago, Redeemed1999 said:

What exactly is the operational specialty? 

It could be nothing formal, just being assigned to a marine battalion or on a ship. Stay in long enough and you can be with seals or MARSOC, or you could do aero medicine residency. They were talking about opening up dive medicine residency as well when I was in, so that could be an option

[HMtoPA]

No cardiology PAs in the Navy. Hell, there are hardly any cardiologists in the Navy. Just not a huge need.

[Redeemed1999]

Thank you! I'm also curious how often Navy PA's deploy? I know the numbers are obviously different for everyone, but could you give a general idea on how often Navy PA's deploy? 

 

[Redeemed1999]

Also if I stay in for the 20 years, does that average number of deployments stay the same throughout the course of those 20 years? 

 

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

1 hour ago, Redeemed1999 said:

Thank you! I'm also curious how often Navy PA's deploy? I know the numbers are obviously different for everyone, but could you give a general idea on how often Navy PA's deploy? 

 

Depends on what you do. The frequency will wax and wane through your career. The more administrative you become, the less it will happen. I would plan on deploying every 2-3 years for 10 years, then every 3-4, for 6-12 months at a time. Then there is spin up training for deployments, which may take you away for a few months before deploying. Then there are taskers that take you away for a month or 2, like deploying for disasters like hurricane relief, coronavirus, or whatever else little excursion is required.

[Redeemed1999]

Thank you! What exactly is spin up training? Is that before every deployment? Would I deploy as soon as this training ends?

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

Just now, Redeemed1999 said:

Thank you! What exactly is spin up training? Is that before every deployment? Would I deploy as soon as this training ends?

It’s variable. You may have to go to 29 palms with the Marines while they play “games”, go out on ship for a cruise, go to whatever other course they want you to have before deploying. Most of it is BS that as the medical officer they won’t really need you, but you are attached and go where they go.

[Redeemed1999]

This would be something that my family would not go to, correct? It's a part of deployment?

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

4 hours ago, Redeemed1999 said:

This would be something that my family would not go to, correct? It's a part of deployment?

Correct. They never pay for your family to go anywhere unless it’s a permanent change of station.

[HMtoPA]

Deployment frequency is really variable. Generally, as a PA you will rotate from "sea duty" to "shore duty" at a 2:3 ratio. On a 2-year sea tour, you can expect to deploy once with your unit. On a 3-year shore tour, you may not deploy at all, but you may be pulled at any time to go with a deploying unit.

In my case, my first tour out of PA school was 2 years with a Marine infantry battalion, and I spent a full half of that tour either deployed or otherwise geographically separated from my family. I then went a 3-year tour at a family medicine clinic (and while there "extended" for a total of 4 years), and didn't deploy at all. I mean, I did a few short trips here and there for training or to support other facilities, but nothing longer than 2 weeks. But again, I certainly could've been pulled and sent somewhere at anytime during those 4 years. For my next tour, I was "due" for sea duty again, but was selected for fellowship training, which I just started - so I know that I definitely won't deploy for the next 18-months. My follow-on tour out of here will likely be my last before retirement - there is a chance that I go back to the Marines for 2-3 years, in which case I can expect to deploy at least once, if not twice. Or I could go to a hospital ED (maybe overseas) for 3 years, and possibly deploy (but most likely not, I would guess, barring some dramatic change in the geopolitical situation). So, it's entirely possible that I do 10 years with a single deployment. I did 10 years before that as a corpsman, and only deployed twice, but did go overseas and did also spend about 2.5 years of that in PA school. So in some ways deployment frequency is out of your hands, and in some ways a result of the choices you make (2.5 years of PA school + 1.5 years of fellowship = 4 years out of 20 of being absolutely non-deployable, add another year for initial entry training pipeline, also, twice during my career I've extended shore tours).

Edited July 19, 2020 by HMtoPA

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

7 minutes ago, HMtoPA said:

Deployment frequency is really variable. Generally, as a PA you will rotate from "sea duty" to "shore duty" at a 2:3 ratio. On a 2-year sea tour, you can expect to deploy once with your unit. On a 3-year shore tour, you may not deploy at all, but you may be pulled at any time to go with a deploying unit.

In my case, my first tour out of PA school was 2 years with a Marine infantry battalion, and I spent a full half of that tour either deployed or otherwise geographically separated from my family. I then went a 3-year tour at a family medicine clinic (and while there "extended" for a total of 4 years), and didn't deploy at all. I mean, I did a few short trips here and there for training or to support other facilities, but nothing longer than 2 weeks. But again, I certainly could've been pulled and sent somewhere at anytime during those 4 years. For my next tour, I was "due" for sea duty again, but was selected for fellowship training, which I just started - so I know that I definitely won't deploy for the next 18-months. My follow-on tour out of here will likely be my last before retirement - there is a chance that I go back to the Marines for 2-3 years, in which case I can expect to deploy at least once, if not twice. Or I could go to a hospital ED (maybe overseas) for 3 years, and possibly deploy (but most likely not, I would guess, barring some dramatic change in the geopolitical situation). So, it's entirely possible that I do 10 years with a single deployment. I did 10 years before that as a corpsman, and only deployed twice, but did go overseas and did also spend about 2.5 years of that in PA school. So in some ways deployment frequency is out of your hands, and in some ways a result of the choices you make (2.5 years of PA school + 1.5 years of fellowship = 4 years out of 20 of being absolutely non-deployable, add another year for initial entry training pipeline, also, twice during my career I've extended shore tours).

Lol, I and my group had a different experience. All but one PA with me at camp Lejeune naval hospital deployed with a marine platform during our shore duty. I deployed twice, though the second was a short stint on the USNS comfort for 2 months. My first deployment was 10 months due to extension. So I spent about 14 months away in that 3 year shore tour. I got out, but all my colleagues had longer contracts and forced to stay. They all were sent to Marine Battalions and then similar to you spent about another year away of that 2 year tour. 
 

don’t get me wrong. I had a great time. Awesome experiences. Tons of money. Really good shape. Great training. Had a friend who had similar deployments, but he couldn’t handle the time away from his comfy place in the US.

[HMtoPA]

45 minutes ago, LT_Oneal_PAC said:

Lol, I and my group had a different experience. All but one PA with me at camp Lejeune naval hospital deployed with a marine platform during our shore duty. I deployed twice, though the second was a short stint on the USNS comfort for 2 months. My first deployment was 10 months due to extension. So I spent about 14 months away in that 3 year shore tour. I got out, but all my colleagues had longer contracts and forced to stay. They all were sent to Marine Battalions and then similar to you spent about another year away of that 2 year tour. 
 

don’t get me wrong. I had a great time. Awesome experiences. Tons of money. Really good shape. Great training. Had a friend who had similar deployments, but he couldn’t handle the time away from his comfy place in the US.

Yeah, I'll be the first to admit that my situation is probably not typical. I certainly haven't been trying to dodge deployment, but I'm also trying to get as much as I can out of the Navy (i.e., specialty training) while I still can. If I hadn't extended (or my extension was denied) and/or I didn't apply to fellowship (or was not accepted) I would likely be deployed right now with a Marine unit or on a carrier. On the other hand, choosing a small FM clinic as my second tour may have also helped me, as I was 1 of 1 PA on site. I'm not sure, but I suspect larger places (like Camp Lejeune) with multiple PAs on board are probably more likely to have one deployed at any given time. Also, my clinic was rolling out the new EMR (MHS Genesis), so they may have been reluctant to pull any of us. The only people I saw deployed from my clinic were corpsmen, nurses, and the anesthesia providers (well, towards the end we were going to deploy an FM doc and pharmacist for Pacific Partnership, but those both were cancelled, and we did deploy one FM doc to the Mercy for the COVID response to LA). I also remember when I was on sea duty, at least three PAs in my cohort who went directly to shore duty were deployed around the same time I was. So ultimately, you just never know - I think for some people that get out, that uncertainty or lack of control is definitely a factor.

[Redeemed1999]

I apologize, but I am new to the military jargon. What is the difference between a tour and deployment? Does family come with you on tours? 

[HMtoPA]

"Tour" is not a precisely-defined formal term (at least not to my knowledge) but is typically used to refer to any given assignment over a period of time. So I might refer to my "overseas tour" when talking about the 3 1/2 year period when I was assigned to the Naval Hospital in Spain. Or my "sea tours" where I was assigned to 1st and 2nd Marine Divisions, respectively. Or my last "shore tour" where I was assigned to a clinic in Washington State. Each of those was a "PCS" (permanent change of station) meaning that I got orders to report to each location for a predetermined amount of time. They were also all "accompanied tours," meaning my family was authorized and funded to go with me - there are exceptions, but accompanied tours are generally the rule.

What differentiates a sea tour from a shore tour is that on sea duty, you are assigned to a particular unit that is mobile and deploys on a predictable rotational schedule - an example might be a Marine Corps infantry battalion, or an aircraft carrier. In both cases, these are entities that are in a constant state of preparing to deploy, deploying, or recovering from deployment. So you show up wherever you happen to land in that cycle and go along for the ride for a couple of years. That unit will have a "homeport" where it is based, and that is where you and your family will live, but when the ship/unit leaves for training or deployment, you will go and they will stay.

Shore duty, on the other hand, is when you are assigned to a fixed, non-mobile facility, such as a hospital or clinic. It can't go anywhere. For example, my clinic in Washington. I lived there with my family, worked there, and in many ways it resembled a "regular" job. The catch is, you are always technically deployable, and there are situations where you as an individual might be pulled from your shore duty job in order to augment a deploying unit somewhere else. So, for example, I've had friends that were pulled from their clinics to go deploy with Marine battalions - so, say you were living with your family in Jacksonville, FL working at the Naval Hospital there, then you got called up to deploy with a Marine unit out of Camp Lejeune, NC. You would leave your family in FL, join the unit in NC for a period of training, then deploy with that unit wherever they go for 6 or 9 months or whatever, and then return to your family and job in FL. Sometimes I've seen shore tours extended for whatever period of time that person was gone, to compensate for the loss of "shore time" but not always. Other examples I've seen of these types of deployments have been people sent to work at the NATO hospital in Afghanistan, people sent to staff one of the hospital ships when they go out, or people sent out on very specialized missions with small teams (e.g., recovery of remains in Southeast Asia).

As I said before, you're generally supposed to do a "sea-shore rotation" where you rotate back and forth from one type of duty to the other. Ideally this gives you some period of relative down time in between higher tempo jobs. Each particular job in the Navy has a defined sea-shore rotation, and in the case of PAs it is 2 years sea/3 years shore, so you can expect that if you're on a sea tour your next assignment will be shore-based, and vice-versa. In practice, there are many fewer sea tours available than shore tours, and then there are specialty training and other opportunities that you might take advantage of, so I don't think every PA in the Navy is strictly following this rotation. Additionally, an overseas shore tour (that is, assigned to a shore facility in a foreign country) is sometimes considered sort of a "soft" sea tour - it is technically shore duty, but is considered a little more arduous than a domestic assignment, so it's not uncommon to sea people go overseas instead of to sea, if that makes sense.

Sorry, probably way more than you wanted to know or can digest right now.

Edited July 20, 2020 by HMtoPA

[Redeemed1999]

Thank you! This is exactly the information I am looking for. Another question I have is, how often would I be on tour? After a tour ends or after I get back from deployment, would I stay on tour? Or would I have time off from tours and/or deployments? 

[HMtoPA]

Don't get too hung up on the "tour" thing, as I think you're kind of misunderstanding the nomenclature. It's more or less just slang. Think of it as working a corporate office job in one city for a couple of years, and then being transferred to another location across the country. You would remain continuously employed with the same company. There wouldn't be a "break" in between, other than the time it would take to move, and perhaps any vacation days you chose to take. In conversation you might refer to the period of time you worked in the West Coast office as distinct from your time at the East Coast office, but in reality it is all part of one continuous period of employment. Make sense?

[Redeemed1999]

Yes thank y'all so much! I really appreciate the information. This is exactly what I was hoping to find out. I believe that is all the questions I have at this time. I'm sure more questions will arise in the near future. 

Thank you, again. 

[Redeemed1999]

This just came to mind and I want to ask about it. I had a two heart conditions as a baby but they were fixed with surgery. I have yearly heart check ups that are always normal, and I have played sports my whole life with no restrictions or difficulty. Are my chances good of being accepted into the Navy despite this? 

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

34 minutes ago, Redeemed1999 said:

This just came to mind and I want to ask about it. I had a two heart conditions as a baby but they were fixed with surgery. I have yearly heart check ups that are always normal, and I have played sports my whole life with no restrictions or difficulty. Are my chances good of being accepted into the Navy despite this? 

There are very specific conditions that require waivers and some not waiverable. Sounds like yours might need a waiver, so you’ll just have to bring all that documentation in that you’ve been fine. But I’m not a MEPS expert.

[Redeemed1999]

Oh okay. My recruiter told me it won't affect my chances. 

[Redeemed1999]

When can Navy PA's specialize? I have seen that Navy PA's start in family care. Is it possible to specialize right after PA school? Do you need to take your own leave time to specialize? 

[OrthoSurgeryPA]

For ortho: 

https://navypa.com/navy-pa-info/professional-development/orthopedics-fellowship

You stand ZERO chance of going straight to fellowship when you first commission. Not a low chance, ZERO chance. Don't believe any person (recruiter) that tells you otherwise.

Agree with all sailors that posted above as well.