Doctor Title

[JetSet82]

Maybe as you get further along in your education you will be more open minded. Also sarcasm is never professional...you need to learn that.

 

I used to respect chiropractics as a health profession. I used to, like the rest of their uneducated followers, believe that chiropractic training was a subsidiary of the medical world. But it is precisely my education, training, and experiences that have led to my sincere concern of these practitioners being released into our communities; it is truly scary.

 

And fortunately, I guess I will never be "open-minded" enough to call a chiropractor a doctor. (But that's a product of my professionalism. I'm simply not in the business of fooling others.)

[archerry]

Is this study supposed to be considered academic literature?

 

I would ask you to please do more research. Or at least find something legitimate and non-biased (i.e., something scientific, evidence-based medicine, etc.), something that is not SUPPORTED BY A GRANT FROM THE CHIROPRACTIC FOUNDATION FOR SPINAL RESEARCH.

 

Yes, this is considered academic literature. Spine is one of the most respected peer-reviewed journals in the industry; UCSD is arguably one of the top musculoskeletal radiology institutions in the world, and a single monetary grant from a research foundation is hardly considered bias inducing by review boards. Are you suggesting that the authors or some other sinister entity manipulated their data or the review board was paid off or was otherwise forced to publish this article in a top-tier indexed journal? I think your ad hominem critique lacks rigor.

 

If you want to deconstruct the article, let me help you with a few points (there are others):

 

A) If you look at the data, one could make the argument that although in comparison chiros did very well, non-radiology clinicians in both professions performed poorly overall. Thus, no non-radiologists should interpret x-ray films, including but not limited to non-radiologist chiros.

B) There may have been a self-selection bias among the study's volunteers. For example, maybe only the best-of-the-best chiros had the nerve to step forward. While this may or may not be substantiated, you could at least bring the point forward as a potential concern.

C) Other studies replicating these findings are lacking. Of course, there aren't other studies refuting these findings either, as it seems it is not broadly studied. Still, one lone study on a topic is pretty thin.

 

See, it's pretty easy. I sincerely hope that in other matters your "professionalism" does not get in the way of your PA training or treatment of patients, particularly if it is at odds with your set of predispositions.

[Firemedic13]

Don't know if this has already been covered, but: Here in NM I sometimes see a PA who is also an acupuncturist (DOM). He performs acupuncture at his SPs office. Since the licensure for MD/DO in this state covers ALL practices, the PA is covered. In pretty much every state I have read the rules on, MD/DO is allowed to do ANY medical procedure... even if they aren't trained to do it. They don't, obviously, because of liability. But because they are allowed to... they could choose to delegate any procedure to a PA if they felt the PA was trained in it. Their liability would even be reduced because if a negative outcome happened they could just try to let the lawyers go after the PA because they have their own DC license.

 

Ultimately it would be up to the SP... but it could be done, I would think.

[docpowers]

A Chiropractor who has an endorsement to perform acupuncture, as I do, can perform these services without an SP. They cannot perform the services of a PA and chiro., or acupuncturist on the same patient at the same time unless as you have stated the SP is trained in these services also. And of course these services would have to included in the forms sent in for that supervising physician.

[marilynpac]

@ Jetset...I see more arrogance than professionalism, but that's my POV....

[Firemedic13]

A Chiropractor who has an endorsement to perform acupuncture, as I do, can perform these services without an SP. They cannot perform the services of a PA and chiro., or acupuncturist on the same patient at the same time unless as you have stated the SP is trained in these services also. And of course these services would have to included in the forms sent in for that supervising physician.

 

 

So the OP could do PA in the morning, and chiro in the afternoon, provided he billed separately and the SP was OK with that happening in his/her office?

[marilynpac]

That's right or do it in another room. PA in one, chiro in another. If an RX is written then only in PA room. Many MDs/DOs have received acupuncture training, I wonder if they have to do this or because they are MD it doesn't apply....

[docpowers]

The billing arrangement doesn't matter. Just however you want to work that out with your employer. And marilynpac Mds as you well know can do what they want to.

[marilynpac]

Yes, I see that in the newspaper every now and then, unfortunately they can also be arrested for it......

[JetSet82]

@ Jetset...I see more arrogance than professionalism, but that's my POV....

 

I'm sorry to hear that that's the vibe you're getting; I can assure you it's not! No personal insults intended, just stating an opinion (based on experience) in the same manner that everyone else here is... : )

[cecilia]

Docpowers,

You should definitely go to PA school. It would be a great asset for your pts, especially in a rural setting.

Please forgive my counterparts, you must realize that many PAs and pre-PAs are very young and they are convinced they know everything, because they have "been in the medical world" and been indoctrinated. Most have not open their own eyes yet. But they will understand ....eventually. I, too was once too skeptical for my own good.

I also don't think vertebral compression fxs can be caused by a p to a force. People walk around with compression fxs, sometimes not even knowing it. These people probably already had a compression fx when they walked in the chiro's office

Good luck to you!

Certain things like knowledge get better with age, more experiences and time. :)

[docpowers]

Thanks Cecilia, I have just interviewed at a PA school. Waiting to hear. I feel I have a lot to offer my patients with all of the medical and natural medicine experience I have. But I know that the medical experience I will gain will also benefit my patients tremendously. I will not leave chiropractic as I have seen awesome results that medicine could not do anything for. I could give examples but most, not all, on this forum would not believe though they saw it with their own eyes.