Finally my turn to post here :-)

[Just Steve]

I have been following this sub forum for as long as I have been on this site, trying to glean as much information as I can. I thought I had a pretty good handle on things but as interviews start to crop up, I find myself losing confidence in my approach.

 

Graduation is this August

 

I feel pretty good about the basics. Dress professional, be polite, confident but not arrogant, if the interview includes a meal do not consume alcohol and order something non messy to eat. I got all that...I just pretend I am still in the military and going to see the Command Master Chief.

 

Where I am starting to squirm is how to juggle a couple of different leads. I had a phone interview with an ortho practice and got invited to a face to face/meet the crew/tour the facilities/we'll do lunch interview this coming Friday. I am lightly familiar with this practice having professional relations with it during my family practice and ER rotations. All the providers I worked with spoke highly of this practice and provider, same goes for the patients. To be honest, it's two blocks from where my kids live, I am interested in ortho and if the compensation package can be negotiated to something that resembles a decent proposal, I'd take the job if they offered it.

 

That being said, I am having a phone interview tomorrow for a family practice job. They have 2 positions open, out in the lovely rural countryside. (read: high NHSC score)The position is for family practice with coverage of the urgent care and solo ER, 24 hour shifts, once up to speed. There will also be some hospitalist duties on the weekends, as that role is filled by the FP providers on weekends, on a rotating basis. I honestly loved my family practice time. I had a blast. The urgent care/ER work doesn't intimidate me in the least with my background. Average inpatient census is 5-7 patients in a rural critical access hospital...they don't keep super sick folks so the hospitalist role isn't wigging me out either. If the ortho job didn't pan out, I'd be very interested in this job. It offers up some unique cross provision of services that can keep the routine from becoming well...routine.

 

There is an ER that I had hoped for employment opportunities in and had promising discussions with the folks in charge of filling those opportunities. However, those opportunities don't open until this fall, far beyond my desired "get a job" date.

 

I lean primarily towards ortho because it is so close to my kids, I could actually see them everyday despite their mom and I no longer co-habitating. That is a huge draw...and I like ortho. The FP job is an 1:15 away (hour and fifteen), about 70 miles.

 

I know not to tip my hand to reveal preferences or even that I am juggling a couple of other potential leads...I just don't know how to stall while I see how things pan out. I could get awful lucky and have the ortho job hammered about before the FP job starts to get into the nitty gritty, but I don't have a lot of faith that the timeline will work out in reality as it does in my head. How do I approach/manage this?

 

I have been talking directly with the ortho doc who is looking to hire his own PA. The practice is a three surgeon practice with one other full time PA and one part time PA. They have three sites for seeing patients, own their own surgery center for outpatient stuff operate at two hospitals for their total joints/inpatient required stay surgeries. I have a feeling this deal could be done with some scribbling on a cocktail napkin and a handshake over burgers. There does not appear to be HR or any sort of office manager involved in this. Part of me is grateful to cut through all that red tape...the other part of me wishes we could get things on a formal offer presentation/contract format. I know to get things in writing...I just don't know how to convince the doc, should he need convincing, that a contract is a most excellent idea. I want to be a good "cultural fit" with the practice meaning "don't rock the boat". Has anyone written their own contract and submitted it to the practice for negotiations/approval? is this common?

 

So...how do I juggle a few different leads while appearing genuinely interested in the job? (which is true)

 

If the job offer comes in a form of a verbal agreement and handshake, I plan to say something like "how about you send me your proposal on paper, I'll look it over and we'll hammer out the details together so we can draw up a formal contract". I just don't know anything about drawing up a contract and I don't know what to do if the job sounds pretty sweet and i want it, but the doc doesn't want to put pen to paper. I am surprised at how eager I am for the job because I can at least partially make good on my promise to my kids about having a better life after I finish school. It means the world to me and I have to keep it in check so i don't agree to a crap offer.

 

The more I think about it, the more nervous I get. I can't wait until all this is over and I am seeing patients and cashing paychecks. Holy crap it's been a long haul.

[ickspiders]

Hey there. I'm only getting ready to start PA school this fall. So I have way less experience than you do in this area! But I just joined the AAPA recently, and I remembered seeing something on their site about contract negotiation, sample contracts, etc. They even have a person you can contact for individual help. Here's a copy/paste from the site:

 

For individualized contract negotiation assistance and career advocacy, contact Jennifer Anne Hohman, AAPA’s director of professional advocacy: jhohman@aapa.org.

 

And here's a link that has details on the services they offer:

http://www.aapa.org/your_pa_career/interviewing_and_contracts.aspx

 

I (obviously) haven't yet taken advantage of these services. Maybe there are people out there who have who can speak to how effective it is. Anyway, I thought I would at least mention this, in case it will help you. I hope you get the job you want with a good salary and benefits! Congratulations on being done with school. :-)

[bgdog]

 

I know not to tip my hand to reveal preferences or even that I am juggling a couple of other potential leads...I just don't know how to stall while I see how things pan out.

 

Au Contraire, Grasshopper, this is a great negotiating tactic, your goal is to portray "high value" (weather you have it or not). High value people have lots of choices, because everybody wants winners. It's similar to an attractive girl, she will have a line of guys wanting her to pick them.

 

Same thing applies here and can work to your advantage as long as you're judicious with it.

 

How do I approach/manage this?

 

You explain to Dr Ortho (gently), "if at all possible, can he give you some kind of answer because you have two other jobs that are pressuring you to sign however, ortho is where you want to be and practice and this is your top choice and boy I wouldn't be so forward to ask you BUT I need to get an answer because of the other jobs."

 

This signals that you won't last long on the open market because of your high value.

 

Being that it is a private office, you can get an answer lickity split without all the mucky muck. If he's says no, then you're off to pursue greener pastures, your choices become easier because one offer is off the table.

 

the other part of me wishes we could get things on a formal offer presentation/contract format. I know to get things in writing...I just don't know how to convince the doc, should he need convincing, that a contract is a most excellent idea. I want to be a good "cultural fit" with the practice meaning "don't rock the boat".

 

Negotiating is similar to practicing medicine. You are obligated to your family and the people you provide for to get the best deal and do good business.

 

Just like you are obligated to your pt's to make sure you do the best job you can to treat their illness.

 

YOU HAVE TO DO GOOD BUSINESS.

 

Good business means contracts, counter offers, knowing what the going rate is in that particular market etc.

 

Joe Gilboy say's when you're treating pt's you have to be a "cold hard reptilian scientist" when doing your S. O. A. meaning you have to gather the data and be objective without any interference. The "P" is when you get to be the nice guy and write for pain meds, get him a turkey samich, get him a bus pass whatever it takes to make him happy.

 

Same here, your family depends on you being a "cold hard reptilian negotiator" afterwards you can still be "nice guy Steve"

 

My vote is for the ortho because of the quality of life with your kids ( driving 1+hours each way is insane) plus ortho is fun. I've been in Ortho for many years and I love it. Hard work though.

 

Hope this helps and good luck.

[whoRyou]

CONGRATULATIONS Steve!

[whoRyou]

Au Contraire, Grasshopper, this is a great negotiating tactic, your goal is to portray "high value" (weather you have it or not). High value people have lots of choices, because everybody wants winners. It's similar to an attractive girl, she will have a line of guys wanting her to pick them.

 

Same thing applies here and can work to your advantage as long as you're judicious with it.

 

 

 

You explain to Dr Ortho (gently), "if at all possible, can he give you some kind of answer because you have two other jobs that are pressuring you to sign however, ortho is where you want to be and practice and this is your top choice and boy I wouldn't be so forward to ask you BUT I need to get an answer because of the other jobs."

 

This signals that you won't last long on the open market because of your high value.

 

Being that it is a private office, you can get an answer lickity split without all the mucky muck. If he's says no, then you're off to pursue greener pastures, your choices become easier because one offer is off the table.

 

 

 

Negotiating is similar to practicing medicine. You are obligated to your family and the people you provide for to get the best deal and do good business.

 

Just like you are obligated to your pt's to make sure you do the best job you can to treat their illness.

 

YOU HAVE TO DO GOOD BUSINESS.

 

Good business means contracts, counter offers, knowing what the going rate is in that particular market etc.

 

Joe Gilboy say's when you're treating pt's you have to be a "cold hard reptilian scientist" when doing your S. O. A. meaning you have to gather the data and be objective without any interference. The "P" is when you get to be the nice guy and write for pain meds, get him a turkey samich, get him a bus pass whatever it takes to make him happy.

 

Same here, your family depends on you being a "cold hard reptilian negotiator" afterwards you can still be "nice guy Steve"

 

My vote is for the ortho because of the quality of life with your kids ( driving 1+hours each way is insane) plus ortho is fun. I've been in Ortho for many years and I love it. Hard work though.

 

Hope this helps and good luck.

I would agree with this ... Negotiating is power! It is always a good thing. If companies really like you they will both do whatever they can do to hang on to you. (Let them squirm LOL.) I am sure you know this already, but NEVER EVER talk about money first, let the companies bring it up. Do your homework first and look at places like http://www1.salary.com/Salary-Ranges.html. Using this link look at the salary range according to your profession which we all know :heheh: and at the location you are interested in. So, if the companies are saying, "We can offer you 'X' number of dollars." By doing your homework you already a step ahead knowing if that is too low or high according to salary.com. So, look at your location/area and being a PA. Good Luck Steve and let me know what transpires.