JKBrow13 Posted May 14, 2023 Share Posted May 14, 2023 I just received an offer from a privately owned outpatient IM clinic in Denver, and if I accept it I will be moving from Kentucky. I am unfamiliar with what the market average is like so I wanted to run the offer by you guys! Salary - 105,000 with potential for 110,000 after 6 months. Eventual transition to productivity based after 1 year. Potential for quarterly bonuses up to 1,200 based on patient volume during first year. Schedule - 9-5:30, on call every third weekend with no extra pay (all providers do this; just call no in-patient work) 16 days PTO Credentialing covered, as well as malpractice Non-compete clause within a 20 mile radius with IM or FM They expect me to build my own patient panel, and the daily expected schedule is 10 patients a day with one hour appt slots (40% of demographic is medicare/medicaid) Full benefits otherwise, minus a 401k I feel like it's a fair offer for a new grad, and they seem very interested in helping me learn and grow as a provider. Any thoughts?i Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SedRate Posted May 14, 2023 Share Posted May 14, 2023 A couple of first thoughts: -Nice to hear they're interested in teaching. Have they had PAs before, more specifically new grads? Did they lay out what teaching means to them? Your first job should be a very supportive one. Be wary of the claim/impression to be interested in teaching without an actual plan/idea how to achieve that. (Learned this one from personal experience.) -Check out AAPA salary report to compare your offer to other new grads in the same field and geographical area. Denver is high COL so 105 may not go very far in Denver, especially if no 401k... -The switch to production based -- how likely is that given medicaid pts? Any current PAs you can talk to more about this? -If malpractice is claims made, will they cover tail if you leave? (You will need tail coverage if you leave. They should cover this.) -No 401k is a huge bummer. The time-value of money means you'll be missing out on tens of thousands of dollars (or more) by not contributing now. -What are the requirements to get the $5k after 6 months? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKBrow13 Posted May 14, 2023 Author Share Posted May 14, 2023 2 hours ago, SedRate said: A couple of first thoughts: -Nice to hear they're interested in teaching. Have they had PAs before, more specifically new grads? Did they lay out what teaching means to them? Your first job should be a very supportive one. Be wary of the claim/impression to be interested in teaching without an actual plan/idea how to achieve that. (Learned this one from personal experience.) -Check out AAPA salary report to compare your offer to other new grads in the same field and geographical area. Denver is high COL so 105 may not go very far in Denver, especially if no 401k... -The switch to production based -- how likely is that given medicaid pts? Any current PAs you can talk to more about this? -If malpractice is claims made, will they cover tail if you leave? (You will need tail coverage if you leave. They should cover this.) -No 401k is a huge bummer. The time-value of money means you'll be missing out on tens of thousands of dollars (or more) by not contributing now. -What are the requirements to get the $5k after 6 months? I would be the first PA with the practice! The primary providers were originally involved with teaching with the local med school and residencys so they have experience through that. In terms of any written down planned teaching peocess, I was going to have them further elaborate on it when I meet them for negotiations. Per AAPA for a new grad, it's above average, but as you said the COL is higher. Compared to where I live currently the salary would be equivalent to 10k less. In terms of the switch too RVU based, they definitely made it sound they prefer paying based on productivity vs just salary. My current understanding is that it would be 40% of the total RVU, once again it's something I plan to ask them to elaborate on. The no 401k does suck, instead of that I would have a HSA which I can build up. But obviously that won't be as good as the 401k. They do provide tail coverage The language of the contract is fairly vague regarding what would be considered for the raise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SedRate Posted May 15, 2023 Share Posted May 15, 2023 Above average for new grad in CO in outpatient IM? It doesn't sound like a terrible offer but also not the greatest, especially with no 401k, high COL, not having PAs before, benefits, malpractice, PTO. Be sure to ask all the questions you can think of and don't ignore red flags or things that make you go The eventual conversion to a production model is something to discuss more at length, especially if you're only seeing 10 pts a day. With the changes in billing/coding to include time, this may not be too big of a factor. Will this be a choice you can make or something that will be enforced? Hopefully others will weigh in with additional insight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKBrow13 Posted May 15, 2023 Author Share Posted May 15, 2023 15 hours ago, SedRate said: Above average for new grad in CO in outpatient IM? It doesn't sound like a terrible offer but also not the greatest, especially with no 401k, high COL, not having PAs before, benefits, malpractice, PTO. Be sure to ask all the questions you can think of and don't ignore red flags or things that make you go The eventual conversion to a production model is something to discuss more at length, especially if you're only seeing 10 pts a day. With the changes in billing/coding to include time, this may not be too big of a factor. Will this be a choice you can make or something that will be enforced? Hopefully others will weigh in with additional insight. Yup, per AAPA average for a new grad in outpatient IM is around 99k I plan to ask for more concrete answers regarding how the productivity bonuses next year would work, as well as what exactly they expect during the on-boarding process. If I don't see any red flags with their answers I plan to accept. I'm also planning on asking for a relocation bonus of some sort to see if I can get a little more from them. I do have another offer from an ER gig in Kentucky that pays significantly more, but that has its own set of issues and I don't think it would be ideal for a new grad. Thank you for you advice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SedRate Posted May 15, 2023 Share Posted May 15, 2023 1 hour ago, JKBrow13 said: Yup, per AAPA average for a new grad in outpatient IM is around 99k I plan to ask for more concrete answers regarding how the productivity bonuses next year would work, as well as what exactly they expect during the on-boarding process. If I don't see any red flags with their answers I plan to accept. I'm also planning on asking for a relocation bonus of some sort to see if I can get a little more from them. I do have another offer from an ER gig in Kentucky that pays significantly more, but that has its own set of issues and I don't think it would be ideal for a new grad. Thank you for you advice! Sure, np. Good idea on negitiating for relo assistance. Another thought is asking about CME budget. No additional pay for weekend call sucks. Some office call can be brutal, especially if it's for the entire practice. If you think this job will afford you a great new grad experience and/or you wanna work in IM and/or you wanna live in Denver, might be worth taking and then transferring somewhere with more money and less/paid call. The non-compete sounds scary but I'm not sure how enforceable it'd be and whether they'd pursue it if you stayed in the area and field. Does the contract require a certain amount of notice? I've had a friend with a 120-day notice in their contract and they regretted it til the bitter end... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKBrow13 Posted May 15, 2023 Author Share Posted May 15, 2023 3 hours ago, SedRate said: Sure, np. Good idea on negitiating for relo assistance. Another thought is asking about CME budget. No additional pay for weekend call sucks. Some office call can be brutal, especially if it's for the entire practice. If you think this job will afford you a great new grad experience and/or you wanna work in IM and/or you wanna live in Denver, might be worth taking and then transferring somewhere with more money and less/paid call. The non-compete sounds scary but I'm not sure how enforceable it'd be and whether they'd pursue it if you stayed in the area and field. Does the contract require a certain amount of notice? I've had a friend with a 120-day notice in their contract and they regretted it til the bitter end... I didn't even think about that! It says 60 day notice, which I think is fairly average for these kind of contracts. Yeah I was thinking of asking about CME as well, right now they basically just cover UptoDate as well as Credentialing and state organizations. Any advice on how much to ask for that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SedRate Posted May 17, 2023 Share Posted May 17, 2023 On 5/15/2023 at 3:07 PM, JKBrow13 said: I didn't even think about that! It says 60 day notice, which I think is fairly average for these kind of contracts. Yeah I was thinking of asking about CME as well, right now they basically just cover UptoDate as well as Credentialing and state organizations. Any advice on how much to ask for that? $1500 minimum. $2000-2500 ideal. And clarify that licensing doesn't come out of this. I had one employer try to take hospital credentialing and state licensing fees out of this, and I had to kindly remind them of our contract which stated educational and professional org dues only. I interviewed with another that offered 2500 but all dues and fees came out of that, including DEA, etc. There wasn't much left over for actual CME costs. Always read the fine print, protect yourself and your license, and get things in writing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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