Shadowing Doctors/PAs?

[VitruvianMan]

Hello everybody,

 

I wasn't too sure where to put this in the forums but I've got some questions that I've been getting mixed messages about and I want to be clear about what I've been hearing.

 

I'm considering in going into PA school, but I am aware that you need clinical experience and shadowing to become a valid applicant to the school(s). However, I recently started looking into shadowing PAs, but currently I am shadowing some doctors. I was told that to go to PA schools, it is acceptable to shadow doctors and physician assistants (actually, some said that you can only shadow doctors and that's good enough). Is this true?

[VitruvianMan]

I apologize, perhaps I should have posted this in the shadowing opportunities forum? (I'm new at this site)

[Andreasmo]

Short answer, you should shadow a PA at least a few times. A lot of programs require or prefer a letter of req from a PA. It will also be helpful answering questions like why PA over MD, roles of both providers, etc.

[UGoLong]

To a school, it is hard to be serious about wanting to be a PA if you have never walked a mile in their shoes.

[winterallsummer]

Many applicants get in without shadowing anyone. That being said, shadowing an MD is preferable to not shadowing at all, but shadowing a PA is preferable to shadowing an MD.

[VitruvianMan]

Many applicants get in without shadowing anyone. That being said, shadowing an MD is preferable to not shadowing at all, but shadowing a PA is preferable to shadowing an MD.

 

Is this the reason alot of applicants have to do like 1000 hours of clinical experience? Not trying to sound sarcastic, but if what you say is true about some people not shadowing and getting in, it would make some sense to work on a herculian amount of clinical hours I suppose.

[loliz]

Working in healthcare holds a lot more value than shadowing. HCE requirements are to find applicants that have a foundation of knowledge in medicine and know how to find their way around a hospital or clinic and won't panic at the thought of talking to or touching a patient. On the other hand, the value of shadowing is to see exactly where a PA fits into the healthcare team. It gives you a unique perspective and a link to someone in the field. That being said, I would not do more than a few dozen hours shadowing. There is only so much you can learn by standing in the corner quietly.

Shadowing is helpful, but not necessary for your success (some schools require it). HCE is very helpful, and should be necessary (it will help you in school more than you know!!!) and most schools require it in some capacity.

[VitruvianMan]

Good enough. Now I know I am deviating from the original question (again please bear with me), but what is technically considered HCE? I have tried to work as an EMT, CNA, a hospital volunteer, but none have been successful either because of the amount of money and time required to be certified/licensed in or because the program(s) were full. Currently, I'm working as a volunteer in a post acute center/rehabilitation center, and I was informed that it only matters if you have patient interaction. Is this true?

[Andreasmo]

Yes, it needs to be patient interaction. Look in the pre pa section for other options of HCE (ie tech positions) and/ or keep trying to get into the classes. I'd be wary of hospital volunteer positions because most do not offer valuable hands on experience

[winterallsummer]

Is this the reason alot of applicants have to do like 1000 hours of clinical experience? Not trying to sound sarcastic, but if what you say is true about some people not shadowing and getting in, it would make some sense to work on a herculian amount of clinical hours I suppose.

 

I'm attending a pretty competitive program. Maybe 1/4 of us have shadowed. I am actually one of the few with over a year of experience (a little over 3 yrs), many people in my program have just a couple summers of volunteering, many just worked in the pharmacy or lab or did clerical work. Only a handful of us (maybe 1/4) have solid HCE. I did mine as a CNA. We have a couple other CNAs, RN, respiratory therapist, and EMTs. Many of these people still have only a year or summers only experience.

 

No offense taken. I was a bit paranoid and tried to have it all on my app when I applied. I believed I needed it to get in. It certainly did help, but having been a PA student for over a year, I understand that most people do not have much experience at all. This board misrepresents it as most members here do have HCE, or so it seems. In real life, there are more people who worked in labs, pharmacies, as dietitians only volunteered, or only worked < 500 hrs and still got in.

 

Now, some schools specifically want people with experience, so students attending there are exceptions to this. Personally, I wish more schools were like this. Partly I admit because I had to do it so I feel others should (hey I'm only human), but moreso because I believe being able to relate to a patient and knowing your way around a hospital is important to being a PA.

[winterallsummer]

Good enough. Now I know I am deviating from the original question (again please bear with me), but what is technically considered HCE? I have tried to work as an EMT, CNA, a hospital volunteer, but none have been successful either because of the amount of money and time required to be certified/licensed in or because the program(s) were full. Currently, I'm working as a volunteer in a post acute center/rehabilitation center, and I was informed that it only matters if you have patient interaction. Is this true?

 

True HCE is something where you interact with pts. The shortest degree to do this is CNA (2-4 weeks, average cost around $500 if you shop around). There are always schools accepting students, look harder and you will find it I guarantee I had to commute ~40 minutes for mine, some were closer but overpriced. EMT and MA are longer and more expensive routes, some people prefer them, I recommend CNA.

 

As a CNA, you should apply to as many hospitals as possible. Focus on underserved hospitals. Accept a PRN job. Apply at psych hospitals and state hospitals. Persevere and you will find a position, do not give up (start applying before you get your cert to save time). After you do a few months at a "grunt hospital" you can move somewhere with better pay and benefits.

 

Volunteering is still very good, and 2nd best to "true" HCE. As mentioned we have students at my school who got in with what I wouldn't even consider HCE, stuff like dietician or working in a pharmacy. So I would say your position still counts, definitely. Why not interact with patients and then you can put it on your application? You may not work with them non-stop but if you make at least some time to help with patients I don't see the problem.

[VitruvianMan]

I'm attending a pretty competitive program. Maybe 1/4 of us have shadowed. I am actually one of the few with over a year of experience (a little over 3 yrs), many people in my program have just a couple summers of volunteering, many just worked in the pharmacy or lab or did clerical work. Only a handful of us (maybe 1/4) have solid HCE. I did mine as a CNA. We have a couple other CNAs, RN, respiratory therapist, and EMTs. Many of these people still have only a year or summers only experience.

 

No offense taken. I was a bit paranoid and tried to have it all on my app when I applied. I believed I needed it to get in. It certainly did help, but having been a PA student for over a year, I understand that most people do not have much experience at all. This board misrepresents it as most members here do have HCE, or so it seems. In real life, there are more people who worked in labs, pharmacies, as dietitians only volunteered, or only worked < 500 hrs and still got in.

 

Now, some schools specifically want people with experience, so students attending there are exceptions to this. Personally, I wish more schools were like this. Partly I admit because I had to do it so I feel others should (hey I'm only human), but moreso because I believe being able to relate to a patient and knowing your way around a hospital is important to being a PA.

 

Does your school require at least 1000 hours of clinical experience? I'm just curious because I was wondering what would happen if I did end up doing less than the required 1000, and if I should even apply at all if I do end up short. In the meantime, I'll see what I can do about committing to HCE.

[winterallsummer]

Vitru, I think my school has a 200 hour requirement. Out of all the schools I applied to, most had 200, 500, and some had no requirement. There are a few out there with lengthier requirements but the majority are in the 200-500 hour range, and as you can see many will accept volunteering or jobs in health care that I wouldn't really consider patient contact jobs. I would try to get at least 500 but don't put off applying if you have only 200-300.

[Just Steve]

To the OP...the less hours you have working in medicine, the harder school will be. We know nothing of your academic abilities or medical education so it may be a moot point but if medicine is new to you, you'll be learning a new language and expected to be fluent in it.

 

Personally, I think an angel loses it's wings every time a student gets into PA school without having spent a year or two working in medicine prior to school. The PA education system is changing it's focus from experience to academia and it seems that the majority of students and soon to be students are quite happy with this paradigm shift. Interesting enough we are seeing the flexibility of being PA is being diminished, CAQ exams gaining a strong foot hold in order to land some jobs, and residences are sprouting up faster and faster. Just be aware of these newly added demands on the process of landing a job so that you do not expect to roll out of school with no experience and hope to land a dream job. These times, they are a'changing.