What proportion of generated revenue should I be collecting?

[Russell]

When it's all said and done, how much of the cash I'm bringing in should I expect to get back in wages, productivity, etc.?

 

I'm seeing ~10 patients a day on average in family practice and my current wages/productivity represent about 1/3 of everything I bring in. The problem is that I still don't feel like I'm compensated very well.

 

I really need to be seeing 15-20 peeps a day, I know, but how much more can I ask for in the mean time? 40% of what I bring in? 50%?

[Contrarian]

You ARE kidding right...???:heheh:

[Love2BePAC]

I'm very interested in this also. I was just offered a position with 30% of collections. Based on what the owner of the practice said, the other PA brings in about 400K/year...so he makes about $130K/year...and he works 35 hours/week. Granted, he's been there a few years. I'm just now doing research on this, so I'm looking for answers. This post is timely. The base salary isn't great (70K), but the practice is amazing and I'm really only working about 35 hours/week. Lots to think about.

[Contrarian]

Kinda odd to see a Family Practice PA who only sees about 10 patient's a day complain about being under paid...

[Dermatology PA]

I'm interested in this as well. I am in dermatology and have been with the practice 8 years. I am cutting to part time but going from salary + incentive to incentive only (no base pay). I see 30 pts a day but will increase. They are offering 23%ofcollections which seems low. I usually collect around $500k a year working full time. Any suggestions on incentive percentages?

[FSUnoles]

i think the incentive percentage is a interest question. We are a income generating profession and are making the doctor money so i think its fair that we share the income being generated. I think a lot of PAs forget that we are making people money. I see a lot of PAs during my clinical year getting taken advantage of

[SurferUF]

I'm in family also. See ~ 10-15/day. Get 40% of payments received.

[mirandab_2002]

I would be interested to see more on this as well. I am researching same topic.

[rcdavis]

Good golly mss Molly.. 10-15 pt/day???

In a family practice?

 

Are you all being used as over-flow safety valves to get same day appointments in?

 

Let's throw some numbers

 

10 patients, say $80/ patient basic visit charge ( excluding labs).... 800 gross

 

10%total patient's with procedures (splint, cast, lac, I&D)... Say $75 additional ... 875 gross.

 

Assuming not cash based, fee for service in which case the 875 is in hand), but accepts insurance.. Which typically decreses collections about 30-40 percent.. Deduct say 35%... Yield about $568income/day to the boss.

 

Assuming 8 hour day( again, wow)... Let's give your boss 65 % to cover overhead exclusive of your salary... Leaves you with about $200/day, about $25/hour.

 

I don't see how your boss can afford you, nor you working for him..

 

A fair, off- the -cuff division of gross is salary is equal to 30 percent of collected revenue...

 

I do not see how there is any profit in a pa seeing 10 patients per day... Unless you are

collecting over $120 /patient...

 

Frankly, I would be embarrassed to ask for much more an 25/hr... Knowing how little I generated..

 

Unless... Unless, the practice is using you for overflow, and as a " loss leader"... Accepting a loss of income on your collections as the cost to the clinic to keep patients happy.

 

If that is true, your salary most likely excedes any collections.. And tiering it to a percentage may ge a net loser for you.

 

My experience is at, to generate a profit, you need to be seeing 25-35 patients/day, with several procedures.

 

Of course, not all practices are the same.

 

I am interested in a numbers analysis from you, and your thinking.

[primadonna22274]

I agree. I NEVER saw less than 22/day in FM except as a brand-new grad and within 3 mos was definitely in the 20-something range. Much more typically 28-30 which is a very comfortable pace.

Worst day in FM/urgent care was 90 patients in 14 hr (flu season)...I never want to so that again.

But 10-15?! How do you keep the lights on !?!

[SurferUF]

I wouldn't be employed if i weren't profitable. The seasoned docs see at most 22-25/ day and that is a rarity (more like 15-18 average). I have been working for almost 1 year as a PA. When I see 10-15 patients a day... It's not simple 5 minute visits for flu, URIs or UTIs. The patients are complicated with multiple chronic and acute concerns on top of health maintenance priorities. We have a lot of psych patients too and its hard to hustle them out the door in crisis mode.

 

 

I don't understand for the life of me how one can provide compassionate, responsible care to dozens upon dozens of complicated patients in one day.... doesn't seem like there is time for much of a thoughtful differential or individualized treatment plan... maybe it's a shot gun approach with a plethora of labs and tests? What's the secret?

[Love2BePAC]

I'm late to this thread, but I am in family practice (just started) and the doctors see about 20-25 pts/day and the PAs about 10-20 (20 being quite rare, 15 seems average) like the OP also. This practice is definitely profitable. ?? Not sure why the discrepancy.

[FloridaMD]

Agreed, I don’t know what they are telling these individuals in school but they all seem they deserve $100,000 fresh out of school in primary care. I have had 3 in the last 5 years seeing about 10 a day ask for 6 figures only to leave and see the grass is rotting on the other side. Most have been able to get $80,000 but are seeing 25-35 a day. I think there is a need for recalibration of expectations. 

[PANJK]

12 hours ago, FloridaMD said:

Agreed, I don’t know what they are telling these individuals in school but they all seem they deserve $100,000 fresh out of school in primary care. I have had 3 in the last 5 years seeing about 10 a day ask for 6 figures only to leave and see the grass is rotting on the other side. Most have been able to get $80,000 but are seeing 25-35 a day. I think there is a need for recalibration of expectations. 

I'm a new grad primary care PA with a base of $108,000 and a "goal" of 4 pts/hr in a wonderful group with great support

[ohiovolffemtp]

4 pts/hour is only doable if they are very simple visits: acute visits for straightforward conditions or simple med refills.

[PANJK]

1 hour ago, ohiovolffemtp said:

4 pts/hour is only doable if they are very simple visits: acute visits for straightforward conditions or simple med refills.

max is a better way to describe it, but my group says goal. some hours are filled with just one patient with more complex needs, sometimes its just a lucky run of quick refills or snot/cough visits. my point was more that we don't have to settle for $80k to get a good quality primary care position

Edited July 5, 2019 by PANJK

[anewconvert]

On 7/3/2019 at 11:08 PM, FloridaMD said:

Agreed, I don’t know what they are telling these individuals in school but they all seem they deserve $100,000 fresh out of school in primary care. I have had 3 in the last 5 years seeing about 10 a day ask for 6 figures only to leave and see the grass is rotting on the other side. Most have been able to get $80,000 but are seeing 25-35 a day. I think there is a need for recalibration of expectations. 

holy vampire thread. This thread has been dead for half a decade and you resurrect it for this?  Really?  And with your first post?  

[AbeTheBabe]

On 7/3/2019 at 8:08 PM, FloridaMD said:

Agreed, I don’t know what they are telling these individuals in school but they all seem they deserve $100,000 fresh out of school in primary care. I have had 3 in the last 5 years seeing about 10 a day ask for 6 figures only to leave and see the grass is rotting on the other side. Most have been able to get $80,000 but are seeing 25-35 a day. I think there is a need for recalibration of expectations. 

Lol, of course it's a Florida MD. There are a lot of PA schools in Florida. Lots of new grads willing to take low wages and they take advantage. I'm not sure why a PA shouldn't earn 100K, it's not like they are not making the practice money. My first job out of PA school was 95K base salary plus a bonus of 10-12% of collections. I'm still there over 3 years later and my base salary is almost 110K. Most PAs are making 150K or more with bonuses included.

[MediMike]

Very true. Regardless of market saturation it still blows my mind that providers bringing in hundreds of thousands of dollars to the practice will be making $75-$80k/yr.