Whitecell01 Posted February 6, 2013 Hey everyone.. just hoping to get some answers and hopefully some comfort. I have finally decided to become a PA. I'll just get right to my issue at hand.. Maybe it's not even an issue.. I hope not. Anyway, a few yrs ago I went through a hard time in life dealing with a lot of stress/anxiety. Due to this, I started self medicating with alcohol to cope with the anxiety(nothing else). Well, this landed me in the hospital a few times and eventually to rehab centers. I willingly admitted myself, knowing this wasn't me and I wanted to get better. Never ever have I been arrested or have any type of a criminal record. Not even a speeding ticket. Never in trouble. (Knock on wood). Since then (about 2 yrs or so) I am doing very well in life. Basically, it was a very rough time I am not proud of, but it is over and done with and in the past. I have decided recently that my calling is in healthcare, and I want to become a PA. I have experience as an EMT and also lots of my family is in HC and I reallt want this for my life. So I have a few questions. One, I am planning on shadowing at a nearby hospital where they most likely have a medical file on me that states this past alcohol problem. When I fill out the paper work to shadow, aside from the crim checks and all, will they look to see if I have a medical file there and see this? And if so, will they hold this past information against me? Also, how or will this medical past effect my future schooling, jobs as a PA, etc. Im not even sure if ppl can or even do look up this type of stuff.. And I would think they cant hold it against me as long as they see im fine and healthy now and its in my past. Thank you all for your time... I hope you can ease my mind and I can continue on w my journey. By the way, PA school is at the very least 4 yrs away.. I'll hopefully be starting undergrad biology this yr.Thanks!
Just Steve Posted February 7, 2013 I do believe HIPAA will disallow any research into your medical past for the purpose employment/shadowing screening.
dsta Posted February 7, 2013 I've looked at licensing applications for various states and they usually ask whether or not you've had a drug or alcohol addiction in the past. In Texas where I live it only asks about the past five years. I doubt it would be something that would affect your ability to be licensed but I'm not the medical board.
cinntsp Posted February 7, 2013 Schools would not be privy to this information if you have no criminal record associated with it.
Administrator rev ronin Posted February 7, 2013 Administrator I do believe HIPAA will disallow any research into your medical past for the purpose employment/shadowing screening. Hahahahaha.... You forgot the </sarcasm> tag. HIPAA mandates access to the employer--well, to be specific, that would be the entity paying for the treatment--who would be the people whom you least want to know about such treatment. Besides, in employment checks, you will consent to having all of your medical records examined without any hold-backs whatsoever. Mind you, forcing people to do that will be prohibited by law, but you will have the "option" to consent, and anyone not exercising the "option" to consent will simply not be considered. Seriously, go read a pre-employment background check consent form sometime. To summarize, it essentially says "I authorize you to get any information from anyone about me, without reservations, and hold them harmless for complying".
Whitecell01 Posted February 7, 2013 Author Thanks for the responses. Well rev, if they would happen across anything, by the time id be at PA school this will be at the least 6-7 yrs behind me, and at the time id be applying for a job maybe 8 yrs. I would hope long as they see all is well and I excelled in school and this was a time I went through in my distant past, id be aright
Friction Posted February 7, 2013 I almost posting this same thing earlier... I know what you're going through in recovery. I would think a public advocate for substance abuse recovery would be a good thing??? One thing I've noticed in AA is that this disease is not inclusive to a certain type of people. I've met lawyers, Fortune 500 managers, military officers, and everything in between in the rooms. If someone doesn't want to see what kind of person I am sober, that's on them. Not to boost my ego, but I'm an amazing worker and extremely well bedside... If others want to be prejudice because of somethings that happened in my life then maybe it isn't right to begin with. I'm not a religious person, but "Thy Will be done." Sometimes these lives have a way of working out if we just do the next right thing. I've become so passionate about this because I know how bad it sucks to hit rock bottom, and then fall a little further. I would never wish for someone to have to go through that. I love EM, but if I could work at a treatment center or recovery program in addition I would, in a heartbeat. Seeing someone get their life back is a priceless thing to see and witness.
Friction Posted February 7, 2013 Hahahahaha.... You forgot the </sarcasm> tag. HIPAA mandates access to the employer--well, to be specific, that would be the entity paying for the treatment--who would be the people whom you least want to know about such treatment. Besides, in employment checks, you will consent to having all of your medical records examined without any hold-backs whatsoever. Mind you, forcing people to do that will be prohibited by law, but you will have the "option" to consent, and anyone not exercising the "option" to consent will simply not be considered. Seriously, go read a pre-employment background check consent form sometime. To summarize, it essentially says "I authorize you to get any information from anyone about me, without reservations, and hold them harmless for complying". So... the same healthcare people who put such a stress on HIPAA can essentially ignore it? Love the irony.
Just Steve Posted February 7, 2013 I have a former classmate who struggled with alcohol and received a DUI while in PA school. Once he finished the legal aspects of it, he was referred to http://www.wphp.org This is a network that works with impaired providers. This organization took that student under their collective wing, gave him a scholarship to fund inpatient rehab, and now he is back in school. As long as he attends their meetings, it is said that the state med board will sign off on his license. http://www.orpag.org is the link to Oregon's site. As I understand it from a lecture we got in our didactic year, every state has an organization such as these I have listed. Personally, if you were my buddy and we were having a face to face conversation, I'd suggest you drop a note to these folks and tell your story, follow what they recommend. They are in the business of keeping health care professionals in business.
Friction Posted February 7, 2013 I have a former classmate who struggled with alcohol and received a DUI while in PA school. Once he finished the legal aspects of it, he was referred to http://www.wphp.org This is a network that works with impaired providers. This organization took that student under their collective wing, gave him a scholarship to fund inpatient rehab, and now he is back in school. As long as he attends their meetings, it is said that the state med board will sign off on his license. http://www.orpag.org is the link to Oregon's site. As I understand it from a lecture we got in our didactic year, every state has an organization such as these I have listed. Personally, if you were my buddy and we were having a face to face conversation, I'd suggest you drop a note to these folks and tell your story, follow what they recommend. They are in the business of keeping health care professionals in business. I think this is amazingly awesome. I had a Pharmacist that came and spoke to our outpatient treatment group, guy blew me away. I don't know if its being naive or a general lack of support, but I think there are a lot of management staff who turn the other way because its easier. Some, not all. I know a handful of my co-workers who deal with this as well. I think its a lot more common than healthcare personal realize. Working 10-12 hour shifts is exhausting and its easy to want to relieve that stress on one's 3-4 off days. I just wish healthcare systems were as intent of caring for their co-workers as the were on their patients.
Administrator rev ronin Posted February 7, 2013 Administrator I think there are a lot of management staff who turn the other way because its easier. If you want to blame someone, blame the lawyers: FOREVER if you relapse, screw up, and hurt a patient, your employer is FOREVER on the hook for the consequences, because they knew--or should have known--that people with past substance abuse problems were more likely to have similar problems in the future, and they put you in a stressful situation. That means $$ to the lawyers and the "victims"... and away from the organization(s) that might employ you in the future. Now, VA and other government organizations may be immune by statute, but I wouldn't bet your career on any private practice or corporate group ever hiring you, ever.
dsta Posted February 7, 2013 The Americans with Disabilities Act supposedly prohibits employers from being able to request medical records. So do they get around this by giving the applicant the "option" to consent to disclosing their medical records? I would have thought that "prohibit" means they can't ask at all.
Friction Posted February 8, 2013 So essentially you can't pursue a a job in healthcare because you're human and made a mistake? I've meet many healthcare workers who struggle with worse addictions than alcohol. Although, a previous heroin addict told me he felt sorry for me because my addiction is easy to get, whereas his was hard to find regularly.
Whitecell01 Posted February 8, 2013 Author Rev, are you basically saying I shouldnt even put all my time, effort, and $ into school for the next 6-7 yrs of my life to pursue my dream because in the end an employer will see my medical records and boom all those yrs and work was for nothing??? So I should give up on this and try to find something else all because I had health issues in the past... Ill be honest I am feeling very discouraged.
Administrator rev ronin Posted February 8, 2013 Administrator So... the same healthcare people who put such a stress on HIPAA can essentially ignore it? Love the irony. HIPAA is written for the insurance companies, to make sure patients have no right to restrict their access to info. HIPAA is written for the IT consultants, so they can charge huge fees for little to no added value. HIPAA is written for the public that doesn't pay very much attention, to placate them that "something is being done" when, in fact, nothing they really care about is being affected. HIPAA is written for large data consumers, to give the government NHS-like access to EMRs, so that we won't have to rely on huge retrospective studies only being from countries with socialized medicine. Mind you, I was in IT security before I went to PA school. Unlike most people pontificating about HIPAA... I actually read it.
rpackelly Posted February 10, 2013 As a prior PA program director who has seen this many times with many students and many grads, get in touch with the Caduceus Caucus of the AAPA and also your local state PA organization. There are thousands of PAs in recovery. There are many people to help you with this. It’s a hard road but the hardest part of the road is the recovery process, not the licensing process. Several states are very restrictive about this. In California, they will issue you a probationary license and enforce substance testing. Pick another state! Most will let you belong to their health professionals recovery program without a public record. In every state, if you are honest and work with the Board, and do not relapse, you will get licensed. You have much to offer. You have personal experience with an extremely common disease. It would be best if you did your HCE in a place without direct medical records to avoid obstacles at the very beginning (those are the hardest). But, with the proper assistance, everything can be worked through. The important part is that you continue to work with the appropriate professional groups and get MD/PA advocates for you in those groups. Depending on how long your admission takes, many state licensing boards will ask if you were treated within the past five years. You may be beyond that. But believe me, this is not an unsurmountable obstacle.
Friction Posted February 10, 2013 As a prior PA program director who has seen this many times with many students and many grads, get in touch with the Caduceus Caucus of the AAPA and also your local state PA organization. There are thousands of PAs in recovery. There are many people to help you with this. It’s a hard road but the hardest part of the road is the recovery process, not the licensing process. Several states are very restrictive about this. In California, they will issue you a probationary license and enforce substance testing. Pick another state! Most will let you belong to their health professionals recovery program without a public record. In every state, if you are honest and work with the Board, and do not relapse, you will get licensed. You have much to offer. You have personal experience with an extremely common disease. It would be best if you did your HCE in a place without direct medical records to avoid obstacles at the very beginning (those are the hardest). But, with the proper assistance, everything can be worked through. The important part is that you continue to work with the appropriate professional groups and get MD/PA advocates for you in those groups. Depending on how long your admission takes, many state licensing boards will ask if you were treated within the past five years. You may be beyond that. But believe me, this is not an unsurmountable obstacle. Thank you very much for this rpackelly, it gives me great hope. I believe if healthcare organizations (MD/DO, PA, RN) shut out everyone who had a substance abuse problem, in one form or another, they would be shutting out tens of thousands of competent practitioners. Glad to see they have things in place to help people who suffer from these problems.
Friction Posted February 10, 2013 Dr Kelly, with regards to the other thread about residencies, how would this affect applying to these programs? Below is an exert from Arrowhead's EMPA Residency program and what they require in terms of DEA certs. Would a probationary license still make me eligible for most programs? Eligible for and/or possess current DEA licensure(Applicants will be considered if eligible for DEA license, must be fully licensed by start of program) Signed statement indicating you are eligible for DEA licensure(If you do not have a DEA license, please speak to an EMPA program representative prior to applying for one.)
breadandroses Posted February 20, 2013 Related question: I went to rehab in 2009, was sober for 2 years, relapsed, and went back in 2011, taking a medical withdrawal from classes. My university was cool with it and even refunded my tuition. Amazingly I was passing all my classes at the time so my transcript says WP (withdrawal passing). My sobriety is solid now, I'm about to finish my BA, and I'm considering my next move. I'm just worried about how that semester of withdrawals will affect me -- can I just call it a medical withdrawal and leave it at that? Were it not for that and this random semester where I transferred to community college and failed everything but never sent the grades to my university...I'd be golden. hahaha
Administrator rev ronin Posted February 21, 2013 Administrator I'm just worried about how that semester of withdrawals will affect me -- can I just call it a medical withdrawal and leave it at that? Probably not. Almost every good personal statement will detail how you overcame adversity and gained insight in the process. Failing to address an ENTIRE SEMESTER of WP withdrawals in your personal statement would be a red flag if I were reviewing your application.
Friction Posted February 21, 2013 Probably not. Almost every good personal statement will detail how you overcame adversity and gained insight in the process. Failing to address an ENTIRE SEMESTER of WP withdrawals in your personal statement would be a red flag if I were reviewing your application. Rev (and others), Trying to put as much of a positive spin as is possible regarding this topic, do you think addressing alcohol abuse and recovery is something that would be appropriate to put in a PS? Substance abuse is something I fully intend on looking into once I graduate and I think having a first hand experience is something that is invaluable. It's hard to sympathize with someone in that position. Empathy really lends you an inside track to how and what that person is feeling in these situations. I'm just not sure if this is something an ADCOM wants to hear? Joel
CLL6 Posted February 21, 2013 Alcoholism is covered under the Americans with Disabilities Act, as long as you are sober, you cannot be discriminated against for past problems with alcohol. I'm not sure how this will play into working in the healthcare field, but at least you know you would have some fighting room and the ADA would have your back.
Friction Posted February 21, 2013 Alcoholism is covered under the Americans with Disabilities Act, as long as you are sober, you cannot be discriminated against for past problems with alcohol. I'm not sure how this will play into working in the healthcare field, but at least you know you would have some fighting room and the ADA would have your back. Thanks, I'm glad I have some ground to stand on one I become a PA. Still wondering how, or if, I should include this in a PS for schools?
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