College kids being discouraged?

[knjones87088]

to the OP, good choice on getting experience as a medic before pa school. you will be glad you did. most of us "old timers" here have more of a problem with inexperience than age. I'm fine with a 25-30 yr old medic/rn/rt deciding to go to pa school. it's the 22 yr old who has never had a job or lived away from home that we have a problem with. life experience, as well as health care experience, is vitally important.

 

 

I think I have a malpractice case on my hands because when I was born I didn't have any life experience at all! Just kidding, EMED. :)

 

 

My two cents with regard to the amount and type of experience in the medical field prior to entering PA school and whether it renders you capable of being a good PA...

 

It is helpful to start something with an idea of how things go and I agree it pays dividends in medical training and makes a huge difference in the quality of patient care, which in the end is what we're all [hopefully] trying to maximize. But everyone has to start somewhere. It also takes a decent amount of courage to enter into a new profession where you'll have to work extra hard to learn your way and prove yourself to those much more experienced than you. To me, success in PA school depends more on an individual's perseverance and drive than on prior (yet valuable) experience. I'm aware I don't have the most experience on this forum and that humbles and motivates, rather than discourages, me.

 

I've found my life is a dynamic battle between being or dealing with the FNG (F****** New Girl) and both roles are equally irritating. Either everyone hates you because you don't know anything or you have this strange tumor always asking you the most stupid questions imaginable. To me, the key is learning to cope with both.

 

I guess I'm an in-betweener. I'm not fresh out of college yet I haven't been a medic for 20 years; though I know smart, driven people in both categories. So while I'm not rooting for "Team Old Timers" or "Team Foolish Youth" I'm just glad I realize that over the course of my education and career, I'll be playing for both at some point or other and will remember what it was like when I was on the other side of the field.

 

My dad helps me sort out my taxes and I show him how to download "oldies" to his iPod. Each age group has something valuable to offer the other. I believe the same goes for the PA profession.

 

In any case, I enjoy reading everyone's thoughts and think these posts (regardless of whether I agree or disagree with them) are very helpful.

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

I agree that personal motivation is the strongest, by a large margin, factor in success and ability.

[futurePAS]

I've read every post in this thread so far and it has been extremely sobering for someone preparing to apply for PA school. It sort of reaffirmed all of my apprehensiveness towards the career. I don't want to grow up to be in my 50's and regret that I didn't choose medical school. I'd hate to feel limited by my title, despite however competent I may be. I think its time I reevaluate MD vs PA again.

 

I think any young people interested in PA school should speak and listen to the folks who have lived the life. It seems that the general consensus is "if you got the grades, go to med school".

 

The bit about lateral mobility disappearing seems very true as well. I am noticing that many highly-regarded establishments are requiring their PAs to be residency trained or have years of experience. Or, they start them off at 70K and have them work their way up, which nobody who is making a much more comfortable living wants to do.

[Joelseff]

"if you got the TIME, go to med school".

 

FIXED...It's not the grades as some of us have/had the grades for Med school, bit It's the time. I was married with 2 kids when I went to PA school, after 15 years in medicine....I did not have the time....*most* sub 30 year olds don't have these other obligations and that is why I recommend it to younger ppl. Its not a matter of grades or even age, I guess if I were In my 40s making a career switch with no medical exp and no family (and $) I'd go to med school...

 

 

Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using Tapatalk

[Corpsman2PA]

most of us "old timers" here have more of a problem with inexperience than age. I'm fine with a 25-30 yr old medic/rn/rt deciding to go to pa school. it's the 22 yr old who has never had a job or lived away from home that we have a problem with. life experience, as well as health care experience, is vitally important.

QUOTE]

 

I think this should ring loud to many. Its not an age issue. If it were, then the first PAs would never have been. Last I checked, Ken Ferrell was only 21 when Doc Stead picked him to start at the Duke program, and his 2 other classmates were all younger than 27 at the start of the program. Yet he/they had prior experience as a Corpsman. Should somebody have jumped in and told him he should just go to med school because he was just 21? I, like EMEDPA, have issue with somebody who has never touched a patient deciding that PA is the route for them. Get your hands dirty first, you'll be glad you did.

[Guest]

most of us "old timers" here have more of a problem with inexperience than age. I'm fine with a 25-30 yr old medic/rn/rt deciding to go to pa school. it's the 22 yr old who has never had a job or lived away from home that we have a problem with. life experience, as well as health care experience, is vitally important.

QUOTE]

 

I think this should ring loud to many. Its not an age issue. If it were, then the first PAs would never have been. Last I checked, Ken Ferrell was only 21 when Doc Stead picked him to start at the Duke program, and his 2 other classmates were all younger than 27 at the start of the program. Yet he/they had prior experience as a Corpsman. Should somebody have jumped in and told him he should just go to med school because he was just 21? I, like EMEDPA, have issue with somebody who has never touched a patient deciding that PA is the route for them. Get your hands dirty first, you'll be glad you did.

 

THIS!

You don't want to discover that you hate seeing patients and they gross you out when you have an outstanding $100,000+ loan. Plus, PA school is so much easier when you can put what you learn in perspective. Learning what A-fib is, is one thing. Remembering that patient with A-fib is completely different.

[Pliskin]

Not to hijack your thread but I,ve a question for the old timers. Healthcare in America is changing; obviously. Aren't midlevels evolving to overcome some/most of the shortcomings that you all have mentioned? Do you all foresee more autonomy, scope of practice increase, maybe even a slight name change in the future of this profession? This change might not occur during your careers and it is obviously more absolute to avoid these issues by simply going to medical school but I am under the impression that the PA profession is set to change a lot over the coming decades.

 

What say you?

[EMEDPA]

Not to hijack your thread but I,ve a question for the old timers. Healthcare in America is changing; obviously. Aren't midlevels evolving to overcome some/most of the shortcomings that you all have mentioned? Do you all foresee more autonomy, scope of practice increase, maybe even a slight name change in the future of this profession? This change might not occur during your careers and it is obviously more absolute to avoid these issues by simply going to medical school but I am under the impression that the PA profession is set to change a lot over the coming decades.

 

What say you?

can I call you snake? I assume your name is an "escape from NY" reference....:)

see this thread for a little insight:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=973018

[BurntPancakes]

Satire is lost on some people.  Andddd delete.

[KCMA79]

 

(since money really is the only reason I wanted to get into the health professions, anyway...)

 

If you become a PA please be sure to place the above in a prominent place in your waiting room so patients will be forewarned.

[Pliskin]

 

(since money really is the only reason I wanted to get into the health professions, anyway...)

 

If you become a PA please be sure to place the above in a prominent place in your waiting room so patients will be forewarned.

 

Doesn't mean he/she doesn't value the quality of their work. I appreciate not getting the BS humanitarian spill.

[Timon]

You have hobbies? Not anymore. Your life is medicine. You live it, you breathe it, and if you're really lucky, you'll get to have a life again at the end of your residency.

 

What a completely false statement.... I don't mean to be rude but your post really rubs me the wrong want and I feel the need to speak up.

 

 

It was this mentality that I had when I was younger that made me choose a field outside of healthcare and I can tell you that your view is false and this is from my personal experience. you have more time as a physician for hobbies then most professions I've encountered... especially when compared to business... You ever work at a consulting firm or owned a business? Talk about not having a life for hobbies... My last job was in manufacturing and I worked 10-12 hours a day 5 days a week.. the job before that I traveled across the US and was never home. The job I was going to take just prior to making the career change was going to send me to China for 2 weeks each month.

 

Unless you're working in some low end job and have no aspirations to succeed you will not have a life until you're estabished in which ever profession you choose...

 

My sister and my dad (both are physicians) had more time than me to do whatever the heck they wanted during the 14 years of my business career... Try taking a damn vacation as a physician versus in business... you leave and your work is still freaking there when you work in fields other than healthcare. I don't know what type of fantasy life you're living in. My dad and sister both have the means and time to travel the world and do whatever the hell they want to do... Try taking 2 weeks off working in business... You come back and now you're 2 weeks behind.. Try taking 2 weeks off as a Physician.. ya no worries I'll pick up additional shifts and load my schedule to the beginning or end of the month... I don't ever see them living, breathing and not having time for anything. So what.. you put in work during your residency? Don't like to work? then no one can correct your work ethic.

 

They don't care about the grueling hours, the long schooling, the mountain of debt. They don't care about putting their life off until after medical school/residency/forever. What they want, more than anything in the world, is to be a doctor. To be at the top of the medical profession.

 

Once again this is a false statement.. most people I know wanted to become doctors for the money, respect, etc... they never thought of the time committment.

 

I am not one of those people. I am not willing to devote my entire life to medicine.

 

Then don't get into a healthcare provider role... doesn't matter if you're an RN, EMT, PA, MD/DO... your life will always be medicine since its always changing and you have to have a passion for it or you're going to get sucked up and spat out. I think this single statement is what rubs me wrong the most. And I'm pretty sure with that attitude there isn't a single program that view this statement positively... yes you dont have to devote your entire life.. but the overall tone and underlying message of your posting is just *** backwards...

 

I think this makes me a person who has a variety of different interests and goals outside of medicine.

Then why are you going to be a PA? Honestly ask yourself that...

 

I like to write. I want to learn how to shoot a gun (before it becomes illegal to own one, ideally). I want to learn at least one form of martial arts. I enjoy computer programming. I think bench science is fascinating. I like to travel. I like art. I'm interested in learning several different foreign languages. I want a family someday. I'm interested in maybe even having a second career outside of medicine.

 

And you can't achieve this as a physician? Do you think all physicians are robots that only go to work, eat, sleep, and then work more?

 

And so they continue for 3-5 years of having no life and working their *** off for less than minimum wage.

 

Hey guess what... your salary is increased each year and theres also something called moonlighting where you can make close to a doctors pay.. just saying..

 

 

I think telling all young people to "just go to medical school" is somewhat of a disservice to them. Because medical school isn't for everyone. Being a doctor isn't for everyone. Talk to enough doctors and you'll figure this out quickly enough. There are plenty of doctors who regret becoming a doctor but, after 4 years of medical school and a lot of debt, there aren't many options left on the table. Some doctors say they'd pick something completely outside of healthcare if they had to do it over, some doctors say they wish they'd become PAs/pharmacists/some other health profession. To pretend that becoming a doctor is a superior career choice in every instance when you're young and intelligent is just silly.

 

Again... there are so many postings and not just in this thread that people are stating only you know what is best for you. There are many peoople in EVERY field that regret their career choice.. welcome to being human... Most people who become physicians have not worked in healthcare which is what makes being a PA unique. These are people who know this is the field and job role they want. You also need to ask those same doctors why they chose to get into medicine.. and I'm sure they're going to say money and prestige. And lets face it.. working with patients does take a toll on you.. and I'm not talking about the actuity that comes in the door.. I'm talking about the various personalities and the fact there is a lot of customer service as a doctor and not just practicing medicine.

 

As far as medical school making more sense financially (since money really is the only reason I wanted to get into the health professions, anyway...) than PA school if you're young, that's not quite true. What is true is that medical school makes more sense financially if you don't plan on spending much time doing anything besides being a doctor (i.e., having children, pursuing other interests, etc). An example my economics professor used in class to really drive home the point about opportunity cost was his neighbor, who was a neurosurgeon, and after having kids chose to become a stay-at-home mother. That, he said, is one hell of an opportunity cost.

 

For once something I agree with you about and there is research that validates this when it comes to women who have or are planning to have children.

[Deadliftyourspirits]

can I call you snake? I assume your name is an "escape from NY" reference....:)

 

I believe his name is in reference to the "Metal Gear" video game series, which is actually strongly influenced by that movie.

[BurntPancakes]

 

(since money really is the only reason I wanted to get into the health professions, anyway...)

 

If you become a PA please be sure to place the above in a prominent place in your waiting room so patients will be forewarned.

 

Sarcasm. Can't tell if you're being sarcastic, now. Eh.

[KCMA79]

 

(since money really is the only reason I wanted to get into the health professions, anyway...)

 

Doesn't mean he/she doesn't value the quality of their work. I appreciate not getting the BS humanitarian spill.

 

Sad. Be sure and tell that to the Admissions Comm. in you interviews.

[KCMA79]

 

(since money really is the only reason I wanted to get into the health professions, anyway...)

 

Sarcasm. Can't tell if you're being sarcastic, now. Eh.

 

No, no sarcasm. With this attitude you will be a very unhappy PA and that will reflect in the care that you provide. You will be dealing with people with all their foilbles not fixing an engine in a garage. There is much more to being a good PA than being a great technician in it for the money which isn't all that great for most of us.

[BurntPancakes]

Timon, I was not referring to not having time for anything when you are an attending, but for those measly 7-9 years when you're a medical student and a medical resident. (Refer to: "and at the end of your residency.."). As far as I've observed, no, you do not have much time to devote to outside hobbies. Some people don't even have time for their families. Perhaps you know super med students and residents who made time for it all. I don't, and can only speak from my experience.

 

And I wasn't implying every person who becomes a doctor does it for the right reasons; that's ridiculous. I'm simply saying that if someone really wants to become a doctor, then they usually do, regardless of the hours, schooling, debt, etc. Just because they are determined to go to medical school and become a doctor doesn't mean they want to do so to help people. If you read what I said, you'll realize I actually said nothing about the underlying motives of people who become doctors. So I'm not even sure what you're arguing about.

 

And no, I'm not willing to devote my entire life to medicine. I apologize if I don't live up to your high standards. But not really. I believe that whatever profession you're in, you should absolutely strive to be the best you can be in that profession, whilst you're doing it. But if 10 years out of PA school I decide I don't want to be a PA anymore? Then I'm not going to be a PA anymore. I'll pursue other interests. Does that mean that the work I did as a PA is somehow diminished because I changed professions?

 

I think that's idiotic and there are many doctors, nurses, PAs, etc who will be devastated to learn they don't live up to your standards of how a health care provider should live their life. Or not.

 

And I hope the doctors your were referring to that take ample time off were doing something medically related in their time off. Otherwise I fear they have not met your stringent requirements for being properly devoted to medicine. Shame.

 

Having a passion for medicine does not mean you can't have a passion for anything else. Sorry. Now, having a passion for medicine and deciding to pursue a MD does mean that you won't be able to pursue your other interests for quite some time, if ever. Whether or not you're okay with that is up to you.

 

And I have no idea what the point of bringing up other professions is. Yes, business takes a lot of time and sacrifice. So does being a lawyer. Both are fine professions where you can make a great deal of money and also have the potential to help people. As is the case with some other professions. However, I was discussing this mantra of "go to medical school if you're young, and not PA school" which really isn't related to other professions at all. It's about MD vs PA. Presumably, if you are trying to choose between medical school and PA school, then you've decided you want a career in the health professions and aren't concurrently trying to decide if you should start working towards your lifelong dream of becoming a CEO as well.

 

Again... there are so many postings and not just in this thread that people are stating only you know what is best for you. There are many peoople in EVERY field that regret their career choice.. welcome to being human... Most people who become physicians have not worked in healthcare which is what makes being a PA unique. These are people who know this is the field and job role they want. You also need to ask those same doctors why they chose to get into medicine.. and I'm sure they're going to say money and prestige. And lets face it.. working with patients does take a toll on you.. and I'm not talking about the actuity that comes in the door.. I'm talking about the various personalities and the fact there is a lot of customer service as a doctor and not just practicing medicine.

 

And my main point is that no one can make a general statement that "if you're x age, intelligent, and interested in y, then do z" because it's silly. So, again, I'm not even sure what you're arguing about there. But sure.

 

For once something I agree with you about and there is research that validates this when it comes to women who have or are planning to have children.

 

Well, as long as it's supported with research, I suppose we can agree...

[BurntPancakes]

 

No, no sarcasm. With this attitude you will be a very unhappy PA and that will reflect in the care that you provide. You will be dealing with people with all their foilbles not fixing an engine in a garage. There is much more to being a good PA than being a great technician in it for the money which isn't all that great for most of us.

 

Ugh, no. I was saying my original statement "since money is really the only reason I wanted to get into the health professions, anyway..." was sarcastic. Since the original post was about deciding between MD vs PA and one of the main reasons people give to pursue a MD is that you'll make more money as a doctor. Thus, I sarcastically put said quote in a side note.

 

Which clearly was not very clear. Hmm.

[Timon]

LOL... You're unreal... Just so grandiose one way to another... My message to you is people live lives and do activities during residency and throughout their careers.. It's called balance and time management...

 

Most of my family and relatives are physicians.. I don't think I come from a super family of med students.. Coming from the most recent family member to just complete their residency being my sister who had gotten married during her intern year, moved across the country and traveled throughout her residency for leisure along with being Chief resident and made time for other hobbies and still had time to moonlight... It's all how you manage yourself..

[WanderlustPA]

Happiness, for most in life, is found through balance. I understand what you're saying BurntPancakes. No reason why one can't work 40 hours a week, and still be damn good & passionate about their profession. Balance will keep you from getting burnt out.

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

LOL... You're unreal... Just so grandiose one way to another... My message to you is people live lives and do activities during residency and throughout their careers.. It's called balance and time management...

 

Most of my family and relatives are physicians.. I don't think I come from a super family of med students.. Coming from the most recent family member to just complete their residency being my sister who had gotten married during her intern year, moved across the country and traveled throughout her residency for leisure along with being Chief resident and made time for other hobbies and still had time to moonlight... It's all how you manage yourself..

 

Agree. My parents had two children in residency. That was before the 80 hour work week.

[MIW03]

I used to think that becoming a physician was exactly what I wanted to do, and then I came across the PA career. I don't mind making $80k/yr or being a part of the team rather than running it. However, I figured that after I graduate from college, I'd take two years off, work as a CNA or something, get some life experience, and then see where I'd like to go from there. I've been discouraged from going into both fields. As a female, people tell me to not go the physician route, because I couldn't be the mother that I'd want to be. I've been discouraged going PA because everyone says that they see me making the final decisions and if I went PA, I wouldn't be living up to my full potential. I've heard both say that the "grass is greener on the other side."

[EMEDPA]

Agree. My parents had two children in residency. That was before the 80 hour work week.

my dad was an intern the year I was born. he had one entire 24 hr day off the entire yr, the day I was born. he did 36 hrs on/12 off for the whole year. he couldn't get off work long enough to take my mom and I home 2 days later. we went home in a taxi. my sister was born when he was a 3rd yr resident. got to take her home because by then he was down to 24 on, 12 off.

[KCMA79]

MIW03,

 

By all means work for a couple of yrs getting your hands dirty in some sort of hands on patient care. See and experience the health care world, warts and all, from the inside before making a decision. Then you will have a baseline of experience to make an informed decision. Going straight from college into a PA program is a poor idea. Who knows, you might decide health care isn't for you based on your experience.

[just_me]

Honestly you can have a family in any career, I mean think about it...havent you ever had a MD with kids? I have. The MD I worked for has 4. My second patient encounter was FP MD preggo with her third kid. Working in the hospital I have seen plenty of them wobbling around. People say it all the time, the PA route is the best route to go to have a family--I sorta understand because Im assuming the want to be done with school and working before they start, but again I have seen people have families during school going either route. As said in other threads, its all about the strength of your marriage, your ability to support each other and openness to share roles.....then again thats true no matter when you decide to have kids.....

 

I used to think that becoming a physician was exactly what I wanted to do, and then I came across the PA career. I don't mind making $80k/yr or being a part of the team rather than running it. However, I figured that after I graduate from college, I'd take two years off, work as a CNA or something, get some life experience, and then see where I'd like to go from there. I've been discouraged from going into both fields. As a female, people tell me to not go the physician route, because I couldn't be the mother that I'd want to be. I've been discouraged going PA because everyone says that they see me making the final decisions and if I went PA, I wouldn't be living up to my full potential. I've heard both say that the "grass is greener on the other side."