Aggie201055 Posted October 30, 2010 So, I am in a bit of a pickle.... My PA school was provisionally accredited when I matriculated in 2008. However, the school withdrew from the accreditation process in 2009 after not meeting several of the ARC-PA standards (mainly administrative issues). ARC-PA came for a site visit in April 2010 to determine the program's eligibility for provisional accreditation. My graduation date was May 2010. I moved back to my home state shortly after graduation, along with three of my former classmates who have all passed the PANCE, and are all Nationally Certified. I obtained my temporary licensure in my home state in July, then began working in Family Medicine / Urgent Care shortly thereafter. One of my former classmates who also moved to my current state holds a permanent PA license, and another has a temporary license. The third former classmate was denied temporary licensure due to graduating from an unaccredited program. The State Physician Assistant Licensure Committee has asked my former classmates and I to attend a hearing in a couple of months to discuss graduating from an unaccredited program. The State's PA Board Rules say that one must graduate from a program accredited by the ARC-PA to be eligible for PA licensure. However, the Board Rules do not specify whether one is eligible for state licensure if graduating from a program that was accredited at the time of matriculation, but not graduation, or if the program has to be accredited at the time of graduation. Because there were clearly some grey areas in the Board Rules, I contacted the state's Pre-Licensure Committee about my Program's accreditation status in 2009, and they assured me that there would be no problem if graduates of the Program were eligible to sit for the PANCE. However, that has certainly not been the case. At the hearing in a few months, the Committee will determine how they interpret the Board Rules. If the Committee decides that my former classmates and I are not eligible to obtain Permanent Licensure, we will have to attend PA school all over again if we ever want to practice in our current state. We have bought homes to live in and moved our families, and several of us have begun our careers. Being denied eligibility for Licensure at the upcoming hearing will be a significant financial burden and a devastating experience to say the least. If anyone has heard of a PA in a similar situation, or has any advice / insight, please let me know! It would be GREATLY APPRECIATED!
jmj11 Posted October 30, 2010 I've never heard of such a situation. I'm sorry for your dilemma. In the worse case scenario, could you attend something like the Nebraska grad program in lieu of taking PA school over?
marilynpac Posted October 30, 2010 So you're in limbo, the only choice I see is to attend NE grad program b/c you have graduated from PA school you just aren't certified because they won't allow you to certify. You will however have no income and how will you start to pay off your loans if you have any? Not to mention the other bills....There's got to be a way around this, you're being punished for someone else's mistake.
chatcat Posted October 30, 2010 So, I am in a bit of a pickle.... My PA school was provisionally accredited when I matriculated in 2008. However, the school withdrew from the accreditation process in 2009 after not meeting several of the ARC-PA standards (mainly administrative issues). ARC-PA came for a site visit in April 2010 to determine the program's eligibility for provisional accreditation. My graduation date was May 2010. I moved back to my home state shortly after graduation, along with three of my former classmates who have all passed the PANCE, and are all Nationally Certified. I obtained my temporary licensure in my home state in July, then began working in Family Medicine / Urgent Care shortly thereafter. One of my former classmates who also moved to my current state holds a permanent PA license, and another has a temporary license. The third former classmate was denied temporary licensure due to graduating from an unaccredited program. How did you sit for PANRE if you didn't graduate from an accredited program? ARC-PA provides provisional status for programs that don't get full term accreditation~programs denied any type of accreditation are closed. If you are a PA-C the Medical Board should see that despite your program's lack to abide by the national accreditation standards you have deemed yourself competent by virtue of national certification and give special consideration to this unique case. I would also reach out to the ARC-PA as I am sure they have sound experience dealing with the status of students in programs that closed or have provisional status. Your PA program should also be able to guide you through this unique situation.
Aggie201055 Posted October 30, 2010 Author jmj11 Isn't the Nebraska program a distance learning program for PA's with a bachelor's degree to obtain a master's degree? That is a thought. I wonder if the program would accept my former classmates and I if we already have a master's degree?? marilynpac I have taken the PANCE and am currently certified and practicing with a temporary PA license in my current state. The NCCPA allows PA graduates to sit for the PANCE as long as the PA Program was accredited at the time of matriculation. My program was, in fact, accredited at the time of matriculation, but not graduation. I am nationally certified, but might not be able to obtain permanent licensure depending on the State's Physician Assistant Licensure Committee's decision at the hearing in a couple of months. Until then, I am allowed to continue practicing under my temporary license. I will definitely look into the Nebraska program, if they will allow student's in with a master's degree in PA studies. ChatCat I was able to sit for the PANCE, because the NCCPA states that students who matriculate into an accredited PA program are eligible to sit for the PANCE. My classmates and I have all passed the PANCE, and are Nationally Certified, and some of us have even begun our careers. Provisional accreditation is granted to all new PA programs. The program is then evaluated for Full accreditation a few years later. My program was given the choice to withdraw from the accreditation process after the ARC-PA evaluated the program for Full accreditation. However, in April 2010, a few months before my former classmates and I graduated PA school, the ARC-PA made another site visit to evaluate the Program for provisional accreditation. The program did not accept a cohort of students in 2010 until the accreditation issue could be resolved. My former classmates and I graduated in May 2010, then provisional accreditation was granted a few months later. However, the program was not accredited at the time of our graduation. I definitely agree with your statement: "If you are a PA-C the Medical Board should see that despite your program's lack to abide by the national accreditation standards you have deemed yourself competent by virtue of national certification and give special consideration to this unique case." In trying to prepare ourselves for the hearing in a few months, my former classmates and I are definitely going to make this point. Unfortunately, we have tried to reach out to the ARC-PA, but they state that "The NCCPA recognized, for exam eligibility purpose, the class of 2010 PA graduates at our program as having graduated from an accredited program. Once your program withdrew from the accreditation process it lost its accreditation status so technically graduates of the program graduated from an unaccredited program." Additionally, they will not give us any information on similar cases as ours. Our PA program is definitely helping with our case. We have worked very closely with them in trying to resolve this issue. Additionally, they are sending representatives on our behalf to the hearing in a few months. I am sure that we are not the first PA graduates in the US who have been in this situation. Therefore, I am trying to find others who might have been in a similar situation. I have read through thousands of pages of Board Minute Meetings for my current state, but have not found anything that compares to my unique circumstance. Thank you all for your input, and please pass this thread on to anyone who might be able to help!
rpackelly Posted October 30, 2010 This is truly a difficult situation. I've been around PA education for 30 years and have only heard of one or two even close to similar situations. It sounds like the ARC-PA and the NCCPA need to present a unified front. If your program had not withdrawn from the accreditation process, it is likely that your provisional status at the time of matriculation would indeed protect you. Contact the AAPA governmental affairs reps as a group (all of your class who are or may be affected by this; as you move around the country all of you will be). Perhaps they can help get the ARC-PA and the NCCPA on the same page or at least not at counter purpose. Your school must give you assistance as they have a big vested interest in whether or not you are able to be licensed; there are legal and financial issues at stake here. Although it may seem like all of these organizations are not being optimally helpful, they probably will pull together at least for your small group as soon as they see the possible ramifications of this. It could happen to anyone at a school with provisional accreditation, and as such has the potential to really make it difficult for a new school to start and get qualified applicants to matriculate. It would be bad for all of PA education if a fair solution is not reached.
LESH Posted October 30, 2010 I agree with rpackelly but this makes twice this year something like this has happened. I don't think many (if any) state regulatory boards are prepared to deal with this scenerio.
coloradopa Posted October 31, 2010 I was able to sit for the PANCE, because the NCCPA states that students who matriculate into an accredited PA program are eligible to sit for the PANCE. My classmates and I have all passed the PANCE, and are Nationally Certified, and some of us have even begun our careers. Provisional accreditation is granted to all new PA programs. The program is then evaluated for Full accreditation a few years later. My program was given the choice to withdraw from the accreditation process after the ARC-PA evaluated the program for Full accreditation. However, in April 2010, a few months before my former classmates and I graduated PA school, the ARC-PA made another site visit to evaluate the Program for provisional accreditation. The program did not accept a cohort of students in 2010 until the accreditation issue could be resolved. My former classmates and I graduated in May 2010, then provisional accreditation was granted a few months later. However, the program was not accredited at the time of our graduation. Unfortunately, we have tried to reach out to the ARC-PA, but they state that "The NCCPA recognized, for exam eligibility purpose, the class of 2010 PA graduates at our program as having graduated from an accredited program. Once your program withdrew from the accreditation process it lost its accreditation status so technically graduates of the program graduated from an unaccredited program." Additionally, they will not give us any information on similar cases as ours. Do you have this in writing. If so it makes absolutely no sense. There are lots of programs that have closed and are no longer accredited. For example AB's PA program is closed and no longer accredited. However, the hundreds of graduates remain graduates of an accredited PA program. In my mind you are a graduate of an accredited program, provisional accreditation is a type of accreditation. Unfortunately you are probably have to get a lawyer to get what you need. I would have a lawyer write a letter to ARC-PAs legal counsel outlining the situation and requesting a letter from ARC-PA that states you graduated from a program with provisional accreditation and as such you are graduates of an accredited program. For reference please include this direct quote from the accreditation standards manual: "Curriculum Teach Out Programs no longer accredited but which remain actively engaged in delivering the curriculum to currently matriculated students are expected to teach out the curriculum in accordance with the Standards or to assist students in transferring to another ARC-PA accredited program in which they can continue their education." Basically either they are encouraging students to continue in a program that is not accredited or they are acknowledging that students that graduate from a program that had any type of accreditation are graduates of an accredited program. Finally contact James Potter at AAPA (see your private msg for email address). If he doesn't know the answer he can put you in touch of someone who can. For that matter if NCCPA accepted you as a graduate of an ARC-PA accredited program for the PANCE who gave them this information. Its been a while for me, maybe LESH knows. Who gives NCCPA a list of eligible schools? Also who gives NCCPA a list of eligible students? If the answer of either of these is ARC-PA then ARC-PA has stated you are a graduate of an accredited program. Bottom line the information you received from ARC-PA makes no sense. David Carpenter, PA-C
LESH Posted October 31, 2010 "Curriculum Teach Out Programs no longer accredited but which remain actively engaged in delivering the curriculum to currently matriculated students are expected to teach out the curriculum in accordance with the Standards or to assist students in transferring to another ARC-PA accredited program in which they can continue their education." This is a great ARCPA standard that took effect this Sept. It may be something that should be pointed out to the regulatory committe, but I'm not sure how much it applies to situations before this Sept. I'm not a lawyer, and don't play one on TV. Basically either they are encouraging students to continue in a program that is not accredited or they are acknowledging that students that graduate from a program that had any type of accreditation are graduates of an accredited program. The latter may be true, but the PA laws I have seen regarding education and program accreditation are not up to speed with what may be current ARC-PA thinking. Finally contact James Potter at AAPA (see your private msg for email address). If he doesn't know the answer he can put you in touch of someone who can. Good Advice David. For that matter if NCCPA accepted you as a graduate of an ARC-PA accredited program for the PANCE who gave them this information. Its been a while for me, maybe LESH knows. Who gives NCCPA a list of eligible schools? It has been a while since I have been through the process, I just remember submitting an application for the program the beginning of the clinical year while on provisional. My educated guess is ARCPA gives the status, NCCPA generates a lists. To the OP have you spoken with JoAnne Osborne at the NCCPA? Also who gives NCCPA a list of eligible students? The programs after they get their NCCPA # and portal set up. If the answer of either of these is ARC-PA then ARC-PA has stated you are a graduate of an accredited program. I agree with this, but IMHO it depends on how the AG interprets the PA regulations and laws on the definition of an accredited program. Some may argue that every definition of accreditation may not be specified or recognized in the PA practice act. Some may argue that technically it wasn't an accreditied at that the time of this particular cohort's graduation. I am sorry for the OP's situation. I don't think this is like ABs situation, this is different. The state regulatory committee is going to have to fix this. Its a rock and a hard place that will get down to spirit of the law vs intent. To the OP I am afraid you and your colleagues are about to become a test case. We are pulling for you. LesH
chatcat Posted October 31, 2010 Provisional accreditation is granted to all new PA programs. The program is then evaluated for Full accreditation a few years later. My program was given the choice to withdraw from the accreditation process after the ARC-PA evaluated the program for Full accreditation. However, in April 2010, a few months before my former classmates and I graduated PA school, the ARC-PA made another site visit to evaluate the Program for provisional accreditation. The program did not accept a cohort of students in 2010 until the accreditation issue could be resolved. My former classmates and I graduated in May 2010, then provisional accreditation was granted a few months later. However, the program was not accredited at the time of our graduation. I would think that it would be in the best interest of your PA program and the ARC-PA to assist you in whatever way possible with this horrible oversight in allowing PAs to graduate from a program that didn't abide by the national standards of curriculum quality assurance. You have been given some great advice here and I hope you can resolve this with a fair outcome...and I agree with the legal counsel...this shouldn't happen to anyone.
primadonna22274 Posted November 1, 2010 This is a horrible, horrible situation, and you and your classmates have my utmost empathy. I agree you have been given excellent advice by the sages on this forum, particularly rpackelly's advice. Heed it. I agree you may also need legal help, and if so, an education law specialist--ideally one familiar with PA education and practice in your state--would be the best bet. I should think your state PA society would have a vested interest in helping you out with this. I agree it's frustrating that you've hit the ARC-PA & NCCPA roadblock but my experience is those are two groups that look out for themselves first and foremost. Please keep us updated.
Aggie201055 Posted November 4, 2010 Author Thank you all for your help. Please feel free to pass this thread on to anyone who has been in a similar situation, or to anyone you think might be able to help. I will definitely let you all know the outcome of the hearing in a few months.
Aggie201055 Posted November 18, 2010 Author The NCCPA states, "To be eligible for PANCE, you must graduate from a program accredited by the Accreditation Review Commission on Education for the Physician Assistant (ARC-PA) as a Physician Assistant Program or a Surgeon Assistant Program. PA program graduates will be deemed to have graduated from an accredited program if their PA educational program was accredited at the time of their matriculation." Can anyone tell me when the NCCPA first began using the matriculation standard?
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