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help, need help with salary issues in Michigan.


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Help please! I just got a call from a hospital administrator to let me know they are very interested and that I"ll be getting a job offer from them on Wednesday. this does not give me enough time to get a salary review from the AAPA. I've been working locum tenens jobs since 2004 and really have no idea what is going on in the salary department for permanent PA jobs. The job is in Michigan and sounds like it will be a full time position with a split between family practice and gyn. They just lost a female gynecologist and they want me to cover part of her load as well as work family practice. I have a total of 30 years experience with 10 years in ob/gyn and 20 (how did that happen??) in family practice. The position is an office practice owned by a hospital system. They are trying to fill several positions at this time. It is in a small town that is difficult to attract physicians and PAs to. It sounds like there is flexibility in hours: 4 ten hour days instead of five 8 hour days. but they also require all there midlevels to work occasional weekends (maybe once a month) in the walk in clinic... not exactly what I want to do but for one weekend a month (and possibly less when they are fully staffed) it's ok. Does anyone have any ideas as to what I should expect salary wise at this point in the game? Thanks in advance,

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  • 2 weeks later...

Also, I would contact them soon if you haven't heard from them by today to see where the status of the offer is. I agree with Medic207. DO not let them lowball you, especially since you will be covering the Walk-in clinic once a month. The base suggested by Medic is a good starting point. What did they say about how you are paid? Salaried? RVU's? Differential pay for weekends? Holiday pay if you get stuck in the Walk-in on a holiday weekend? Cover all your bases. Good luck.

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Don't let them lowball you

 

You have no control over their offer. They will offer whatever they offer.

 

You do have control however, over whether you take that offer, low or otherwise.

 

A lowball 's definition is different depending on the situation. On the west coast, in real estate, offers more than 4-8% lower than asking price is considered “lowball” for a property. The problem with a lowball offer is that is can piss off the seller. Think about it. You just dissed their prized possession.

 

There are some situations that call for that pitch. Desperate sellers is one. People that need a job is another. I don’t know the numbers on what is considered a “lowball” offer in business, but it is probably close to real estate, 5-10%.

 

As a seller of your services, you need to recognize when that lowball offer is thrown, so #1 rule is: you should absolutely know what those services are worth on the open market for that area, which is what the OP is trying to find out.

 

#2 Business people are in business to make money, they almost always offer less. No problem, you merely counter.

 

Most offers should have a counter.

 

It gets you out of the habit of thinking these bean counters care about you. They don’t, they care about beans. All you want is someone who pretends to care about you, and makes you a decent offer.

 

Believe when I say, if the ship is sinking, you are dead weight that will be thrown over the side. That is just fact. It is with that in mind, anybody negotiating a salary and benefits needs to educate themselves on the process and do right by your family and loved ones.

 

Good Luck.

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one strategy to use in a case like this is to offer them a range of salary, example 100-120k. Most employers will meet you in the middle. definitely don't lowball yourself or they may think its a red flag. goodluck!

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one strategy to use in a case like this is to offer them a range of salary, example 100-120k. Most employers will meet you in the middle. definitely don't lowball yourself or they may think its a red flag. goodluck!

 

Thanks! I try really hard to never be the one to mention numbers first. I want the employer to do it first then I'll go from there. If I"m pushed into the corner I always up the salary $$ I want.

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you are certainly worth > 100k with your experience in the right market.

I doubt they will offer that in rural michigan. for 120k they could probably get an fp doc there to do the same job.

I bet they offer you 90-95k. let me know how close I am when you get the offer.....that being said if the job is perfect in every way you might still want to consider it...see this thread:

http://www.physicianassistantforum.com/forums/showthread.php/8651-quot-perfect-job-quot-minimal-acceptable-salary?highlight=perfect

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You have no control over their offer. They will offer whatever they offer.

 

You do have control however, over whether you take that offer, low or otherwise.

 

A lowball 's definition is different depending on the situation. On the west coast, in real estate, offers more than 4-8% lower than asking price is considered “lowball” for a property. The problem with a lowball offer is that is can piss off the seller. Think about it. You just dissed their prized possession.

 

There are some situations that call for that pitch. Desperate sellers is one. People that need a job is another. I don’t know the numbers on what is considered a “lowball” offer in business, but it is probably close to real estate, 5-10%.

 

As a seller of your services, you need to recognize when that lowball offer is thrown, so #1 rule is: you should absolutely know what those services are worth on the open market for that area, which is what the OP is trying to find out.

 

#2 Business people are in business to make money, they almost always offer less. No problem, you merely counter.

 

Most offers should have a counter.

 

It gets you out of the habit of thinking these bean counters care about you. They don’t, they care about beans. All you want is someone who pretends to care about you, and makes you a decent offer.

 

Believe when I say, if the ship is sinking, you are dead weight that will be thrown over the side. That is just fact. It is with that in mind, anybody negotiating a salary and benefits needs to educate themselves on the process and do right by your family and loved ones.

 

Good Luck.

 

I think everyone knew what I meant.

However you CAN influence that offer by clearly and professionally showcasing yourself. While you may not have "control" over the offer, you do influence it. I have been on both sides of the negotiating table myself, and can tell you that applicants are often judged by how they carry themselves and this can be reflected in the offer.

 

You are correct, bean counters use the lowball offer all the time in hopes to get some cheap labor by a professional who doesn't know their own value.

 

To the original post, this person appears very qualified and should not accept a lowball offer.

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At this point, a perfect job is one that is within driving distance of my home! Ok, I want a little more out of a job than that but I've been doing locums jobs since 2004 and while I've enjoyed it a lot I'm at a point when I want to be in my own home. I suspect you're right about the salary. Of course, they've been looking to fill multiple PA positions and they've lost their ob/gyn so they really want a female PA with gyn experience (I have ten years in ob/gyn) so we'll see how low they start the offer. I'm ok with lower salary if they make the vacation generous and are decent about CME. My mom is 85 and it's time to be closer to home. I'll let you know how close your guess is. Susan PS please consider taking a second to vote for my family in the Rolling Stone Magazine contest "the family who rocks together rolls together!". We are one of 12 finalists and would love to win!http://www.rollingstone.com/music/my-family-rocks

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  • 2 weeks later...

So far, I am not impressed. I called the hospital HR dept to see what was going on and she said she had no idea why she hadn't sent the letter of intent to me since she has had it since January 7th. Ok. It is now January 22. Thanks. I got the letter of intent which was basically: 83,000 base salary, 4 wks vacation, 2 weeks cme with $3,000, $750 for licensing subscriptions, fees etc. and includes a noncompete clause of 25 miles (It is my policy to not sign contracts with noncompete clauses) and of course, you need written permission to work outside jobs. This is based on Monday through Friday 8-5:00 in clinic and one weekend rotating through urgent care clinic. They said in the interview they were open to a 4 day work week, 9-10 hours /day which would be more attractive to me. Additional income available through RVU system which was not elaborated on and short term incentive compensation of 10,000/yr based on 3 or 4 clinical goals. I have no idea how attainable this would be as they also weren't elaborated on. Things like vacation/cme/dues etc seem set in stone since it is hospital wide system based on whether you are midlevel or physician and how long you are out of school (4 yrs or less vs 5 years or more). Susan

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So far, I am not impressed. I called the hospital HR dept to see what was going on and she said she had no idea why she hadn't sent the letter of intent to me since she has had it since January 7th. Ok. It is now January 22. Thanks. I got the letter of intent which was basically: 83,000 base salary, 4 wks vacation, 2 weeks cme with $3,000, $750 for licensing subscriptions, fees etc. and includes a noncompete clause of 25 miles (It is my policy to not sign contracts with noncompete clauses) and of course, you need written permission to work outside jobs. This is based on Monday through Friday 8-5:00 in clinic and one weekend rotating through urgent care clinic. They said in the interview they were open to a 4 day work week, 9-10 hours /day which would be more attractive to me. Additional income available through RVU system which was not elaborated on and short term incentive compensation of 10,000/yr based on 3 or 4 clinical goals. I have no idea how attainable this would be as they also weren't elaborated on. Things like vacation/cme/dues etc seem set in stone since it is hospital wide system based on whether you are midlevel or physician and how long you are out of school (4 yrs or less vs 5 years or more). Susan

 

Susan, it would help to know what part of the state you are thinking of moving to. the east side of the state - salaries are higher. West side - midrange, North = lower. That being said, with your experience you will likely hit the ground running and they will be providing very little training. If I were you, I would reply, highlight your experience, and then give them your counter offer for salary. Make sure to put in WRITING how many days per month you are willing to cover urgent care, and that you want 2 compensatory work days off the preceding or following week (thats what I would do anyway). I would probably tell them I want 93 - 95 with the incentive pay on top of that.

 

One thing I will say - if you are outside of the major metro area's - ann arbor particularly - your dollars will go MUCH farther. I lived and worked in western michigan in neurosurgery up until a year and a half ago. My salary was in the mid 90's. but my house only cost 150k. NOw that I am teaching in the pacific northwest I make less than 85K and to buy a house like the one I had in MI would cost over 350k (if I could find one with a pool and spa in the backyard it would be more).

 

Definately don't take less than what you are worth!

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Thanks. This job is in the southwest part of the state in a small town but the hospital is part of a hospital system in a larger town about45 minutes away. Cost of living isn't high and money will definitely stretch farther than if I were in Detroit/Lansing/AnnArbor etc. I"ve asked them to elaborate on their RVU system and to let me speak with one of their PAs. After I speak with them I will counter their offer. They do give 2 compensatory days off for urgent care work time. In the mean time I'm heading out of town on a locums job so I have income while we negotiate. Cross your fingers for me!

Susan, it would help to know what part of the state you are thinking of moving to. the east side of the state - salaries are higher. West side - midrange, North = lower. That being said, with your experience you will likely hit the ground running and they will be providing very little training. If I were you, I would reply, highlight your experience, and then give them your counter offer for salary. Make sure to put in WRITING how many days per month you are willing to cover urgent care, and that you want 2 compensatory work days off the preceding or following week (thats what I would do anyway). I would probably tell them I want 93 - 95 with the incentive pay on top of that.

 

One thing I will say - if you are outside of the major metro area's - ann arbor particularly - your dollars will go MUCH farther. I lived and worked in western michigan in neurosurgery up until a year and a half ago. My salary was in the mid 90's. but my house only cost 150k. NOw that I am teaching in the pacific northwest I make less than 85K and to buy a house like the one I had in MI would cost over 350k (if I could find one with a pool and spa in the backyard it would be more).

 

Definately don't take less than what you are worth!

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