tinylilron Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Hi, I may be making this up but I thought that PAs and MD/DOs take the same classes together in medical school. Is this true? If so, can someone provide me with the source of information. I want to go into primary care (preventative medicine, internal medicine, family practice, pediatrics) and I am trying to figure out what is the best profession for myself. Your help is greatly appreciated. Thank you, Verónica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Steve Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 It depends on the school. I attended UW/Medex at the Yakima campus, never saw a med student Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primadonna22274 Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 I went to a community PA program, not associated with a medical school. Had a good education but did not interact with medical students at all until clinical rotations. Taught at a well-established and respected PA program in the south at a major medical school--our students saw med students briefly in anatomy and never again until rotations. Had difficulty getting many med school faculty to teach because the PA program was in allied health, not associated with the medical school, and many considered it "not their job". Now a DO student--no PA students associated with my program. Just gotta tell ya medical school is 2-3 x the volume of material we covered in PA school. Not even close. So in case you were wondering, this commonly held belief that PA school and medical school are equivalent kinda yanks my chain. You don't know if you haven't done both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andersenpa Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 So in case you were wondering, this commonly held belief that PA school and medical school are equivalent kinda yanks my chain. You don't know if you haven't done both. Thanks for giving some REAL perspective on this. Believe it or not it yanks my chain too when people try to equalize the two. (I still stand firm that PA school is not inferior in many respects but it is not "MD/DO school in 2 yrs") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primadonna22274 Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 Matt, you know I have never said inferior, and wouldn't...just not the same. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IowaPA Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 I wouldn't for a second argue that PA school is "MD/DO school in 2 yrs", but to offer a balanced perspective I would argue that programs exist which closely mirror the first two years of med school during the didactic. I am a student at the U. of Iowa and a significant majority of our curriculum is in concert with the med students. We start with a brutal summer which covers a good chunk of the 1st year of med school (gross anatomy, medical physiology, biochemistry, history & physical, and a course on EBM/statistics). We do not cover genetics or immunology, however; I'm not at all trying to say that we DO cover the 1st year of med school, just that we cover some major ground in a short period of time. For the next year (Fall and Spring) we follow the exact same curriculum as the 2nd year med students (with the exception of a separate Pathology course in the Fall & Spring). We are integrated with them entirely - take the same classes together, are expected to perform to the same level, and have the same opportunities in the hospital that they do. The lecturers/professors don't know a PA1 from an M2, we all sit together, study together, and learn together. We (PA1/M2) are all split up among 4 different "communities" and are each paired with partners of the opposing discipline with whom we do all of our hospital-based patient assessments, small group sessions, et cetera with. The PA department here is a part of the College of Medicine and they go above and beyond to ensure that we all learn to work together as a team from the very beginning. After the PA1/M2 year we all part ways and are now on our respective rotations to really learn how to apply the information that we somehow crammed into our heads over the last 15 months of didactic. :) With respect, anderson/prima, I am in no way stating that I am completing MD/DO school in 2 yrs or that PAs who don't follow a similar curriculum are in any way inferior, A PA-C is a PA-C, I'm merely demonstrating that there is at least one program which is fully integrated with the MD program. It's been an amazing experience showing the "med students" what we PA students are made of. And I can honestly say that, in my eyes, we, both the MDs and the PAs, will be better practitioners because of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primadonna22274 Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 ^^^this is great, but unusual. Prob why Iowa has been so respected for so long...but I venture to say the majority of PA programs do not look like yours. Mine certainly didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andersenpa Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 Matt, you know I have never said inferior, and wouldn't...just not the same. ;) Of course! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IowaPA Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 Agreed...certainly not the norm. And there are many means to the same end. Just wanted to offer an alternative perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinylilron Posted October 1, 2012 Author Share Posted October 1, 2012 Primadonna22274, thank you for speaking the truth. I really needed to hear that. I keep on hearing that PAs learn 80% of what MD/DOs learn. I really wanted a more accurate assessment of this. I want to do primary care and I have read Yale's study which suggests that PA is the way to go for females but if I am really not going to have the training and the knowledge of an MD/DO maybe I should just study for the MCAT and try to get into medical school again. Are you in a bridge from PA to DO program? The only thing that bothers me is the hours and length of training. Do you think MD/DOs work more than PAs in primary care? As a future wife/mother, I would only like to work 4 days per week at maximum. Especially, when my kids are young. I also really want to get an MPH in addition to my health care provider degree. Either during school or in my residency/fellowship. How far along are you in DO school? Thank you once again. Verónica I went to a community PA program, not associated with a medical school. Had a good education but did not interact with medical students at all until clinical rotations.Taught at a well-established and respected PA program in the south at a major medical school--our students saw med students briefly in anatomy and never again until rotations. Had difficulty getting many med school faculty to teach because the PA program was in allied health, not associated with the medical school, and many considered it "not their job". Now a DO student--no PA students associated with my program. Just gotta tell ya medical school is 2-3 x the volume of material we covered in PA school. Not even close. So in case you were wondering, this commonly held belief that PA school and medical school are equivalent kinda yanks my chain. You don't know if you haven't done both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinylilron Posted October 1, 2012 Author Share Posted October 1, 2012 Wow this is great. I wonder if there are other schools that are similar to this. I wouldn't for a second argue that PA school is "MD/DO school in 2 yrs", but to offer a balanced perspective I would argue that programs exist which closely mirror the first two years of med school during the didactic. I am a student at the U. of Iowa and a significant majority of our curriculum is in concert with the med students. We start with a brutal summer which covers a good chunk of the 1st year of med school (gross anatomy, medical physiology, biochemistry, history & physical, and a course on EBM/statistics). We do not cover genetics or immunology, however; I'm not at all trying to say that we DO cover the 1st year of med school, just that we cover some major ground in a short period of time. For the next year (Fall and Spring) we follow the exact same curriculum as the 2nd year med students (with the exception of a separate Pathology course in the Fall & Spring). We are integrated with them entirely - take the same classes together, are expected to perform to the same level, and have the same opportunities in the hospital that they do. The lecturers/professors don't know a PA1 from an M2, we all sit together, study together, and learn together. We (PA1/M2) are all split up among 4 different "communities" and are each paired with partners of the opposing discipline with whom we do all of our hospital-based patient assessments, small group sessions, et cetera with. The PA department here is a part of the College of Medicine and they go above and beyond to ensure that we all learn to work together as a team from the very beginning. After the PA1/M2 year we all part ways and are now on our respective rotations to really learn how to apply the information that we somehow crammed into our heads over the last 15 months of didactic. :) With respect, anderson/prima, I am in no way stating that I am completing MD/DO school in 2 yrs or that PAs who don't follow a similar curriculum are in any way inferior, A PA-C is a PA-C, I'm merely demonstrating that there is at least one program which is fully integrated with the MD program. It's been an amazing experience showing the "med students" what we PA students are made of. And I can honestly say that, in my eyes, we, both the MDs and the PAs, will be better practitioners because of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primadonna22274 Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 Veronica, I think that Yale study is crap. ;) My bias. I am not a mother, although truth is I think it's hard for women to do it all and be successful mothers as well. I certainly have never figured out how to do it. I will likely be able to work LESS as a physician and make a very comfortable lifestyle. I admit I am a workaholic (still with 3 part-time jobs in med school-- I like to be busy). I am an M2 now and have a little over 20 mos to go. Shadow both PAs and physicians and ask both groups these questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinylilron Posted October 1, 2012 Author Share Posted October 1, 2012 I admit I am a workaholic (still with 3 part-time jobs in med school-- I like to be busy). What types of part-time jobs are you working? What DO school do you go to? How long were you a PA before you started DO school? What type of specialty do you want to go into? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primadonna22274 Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 6-12 hr/wk rural FP clinic (got this job after a successful clinical rotation). 3 hr/wk teaching an H & P lab for local PA students. Not too much prep as I have taught this course x 5 yr. Per diem 1-2 days/mo PA at women's prison. 12 yr as PA-C, just recerted for the last time 2 wk ago. Scored >2x the minimum passing score ;) yay med school!! I am in the LECOM 3 yr track for PAs to DOs. It is tough but so am I. M1 was by far the hardest-- I only had the part-time teaching job this time last year and that's honestly all I could handle. ("Basic sciences" are NOT basic!) Now that we are in systems it is MUCH easier. I have to study far less than most of my classmates which is a blessing. I love FM and will likely end up in it, but we shall see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinylilron Posted October 1, 2012 Author Share Posted October 1, 2012 Hey Primadonna... Have you started studying for your board exams for DO school? Do you think that the DO program prepares you well for the exam? Did your PA program prepare you for your PANCE? Do you take practice boards in your courses or as part of your programs? Thank you once again for all your help. Verónica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primadonna22274 Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 I'm a bit of a gunner ;) have been studying for boards since January of first year (LOOOOVVVVVEEEE Pathoma). I listen to Goljan while driving (my rural and prison jobs are both 45-min each way). We had a diagnostic recently in which the goal was 50% retention of everything we covered in the past 14 mos. I scored 63%, still seems rough to me but apparently a lot better than average. I think I will be well-prepared, partially due to strong faculty in certain subjects (micro, Immuno, anatomy, neuroanatomy) and greatly due to my own persistent repetition. I am definitely weak in physio and Biochem and am working on those now. My PA school prepared me well to pass PANCE the first time in 2000, but my most recent score was 250 pts above that (a very respectable score then) and 200 pts above my first PANRE in 2006. I had almost NO time to study for this PANRE and in fact took it the afternoon of my cardio final. I got lucky in that my exam was 28% cardio ;) but also scored very well in neuro and musculoskeletal, systems we covered last spring. Opening the score was truly a "wow" moment as I've had students score in the 800s but I was never that close myself. The silly thing is, I don't think one should have to go to medical school to score well on PANCE/PANRE ;) Ah well...I'm taking the night off. Or at least a few hours. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinylilron Posted October 1, 2012 Author Share Posted October 1, 2012 Primadonna, are you taking both the USMLE and COMPLEX exams? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primadonna22274 Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 Yup, USMLE Step 1 and COMLEX Level 1, sometime next May. Prayers welcome :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinylilron Posted October 1, 2012 Author Share Posted October 1, 2012 Yup, USMLE Step 1 and COMLEX Level 1, sometime next May. Prayers welcome :) WOW!!! Why both? Isn't that super expensive? Did you want to be eligible for both residencies or something? I have been looking into residencies as a motivator into which direction to take with my career. Do they usually only take one or the other or do some accept both? What about fellowships? Does it matter which boards you took for fellowships? Thank you once again for all your help Primadonna... you are great! :-) I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers but I have a feeling you are going to do awesome regardless. Best, Verónica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primadonna22274 Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 COMLEX is mandatory for all DO students. I am taking USMLE to keep my options open, and to motivate me to study harder...but yes, an extra $550. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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