Moderator LT_Oneal_PAC Posted September 9, 2012 Moderator Share Posted September 9, 2012 Uhhh, no you didn't, you went to PA school. "School of Medicine" is the umbrella under which other schools are located, PA school, paramedic school, RT school, medical school, whatever. Don't be a lying sack o S**T Wow...that was an over the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JMPA Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 "Uhhh, no you didn't, you went to PA school. "School of Medicine" is the umbrella under which other schools are located, PA school, paramedic school, RT school, medical school, whatever. Don't be a lying sack o S**T" Reply With Quote A student replying to a PA-C, wow. Talk about NO experience mouthing off. Thats ok. I laugh. It's good for one to have a certain degree of fire. Good luck student, hope you make it through your rotations. Oh and by the way, if you don't study Medicine, the you will not make it as a PA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OpSite Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 While not obtaining doctorate degrees, make no mistake, you attend medical school. You are taught medicine. Just like Associates degree nurse attends nursing school just like a BSN does, the same goes for us and physicians. An Associate Degree nurse who passes boards IS an RN. A PA who passes his/her boards is NOT an MD. The more appropriate correlation would be a PA who has a certificate = a PA with a BS/BA degree = a PA with a MS/MA degree = all PA-C. And not all PA's graduate from some "medical school." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted September 9, 2012 Moderator Share Posted September 9, 2012 An Associate Degree nurse who passes boards IS an RN. A PA who passes his/her boards is NOT an MD. The more appropriate correlation would be a PA who has a certificate = a PA with a BS/BA degree = a PA with a MS/MA degree = all PA-C. And not all PA's graduate from some "medical school." All true, however I still think it's ok for a pa who went to a program affiliated with a medical school to say so: " I went to the pa program affiliated with the yale school of medicine", etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OpSite Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 Saying you graduated from med school when you're a PA is like saying you went to nursing school when you're a MA/CMA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OpSite Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 All true, however I still think it's ok for a pa who went to a program affiliated with a medical school to say so: " I went to the pa program affiliated with the yale school of medicine", etc I 100% agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgdog Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 Saying I went ti PA school is equivalent to saying i went potty. You are ashamed you went to PA school so say you went to medical school?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted September 9, 2012 Moderator Share Posted September 9, 2012 I really can see the arguements on both sides - physicians do not ""own" I went to medical college or med school" - and honestly we should NOT be allowing them to lay claim to yet another item in the common language Initially I was thinking this PA student was way wrong, but after having thought about it for a day I am begining to side with them. I have had RT's, PT's, nurse's and a slew of others tell me where they went to school and probably 30% say medical school. Why do we now defer to an unwritten rule that puts us down? do we not truly attend a school that teaches medicine? Some of us (myself inculded) attended a sterotypical medical college. Why are we now protecting an old bias that only says MD/DO when to medical school? I here DMD and VMD say it all the time.... Initially this might appear as trying to pass ourselves off as physicians, however that is not it - why not redefine the common language to include PA's as one's that attended medical school? Is their any law or rule saying we did not attend medical college? Is there legal penalty for saying we attended medical school? Have be been barred from using "med school" by various agencies? In stepping back I see a rift that is strange - we gripe about the AAPA no advocating for us - yet then we all (myself included) are hesitant to call our medical training, in a school of medicine, where we get a medical oriented degree, "med school"---- should we not be taking the opposite approach and explaining and adopting this language to our uses? We say respect is earned, but why pass up on a simple descriptor that helps the general public understand what we do? Just for an fyi - for the last 7 or so years I have described being a PA and my schooling as "my medical schooling was 3 instead of 4 years and we then get a job instead of doing residency. We go over many of the same topics but just don't go as deep into them as the future physicians, and in fact I attended XYZ Medical College" NOTICE I am very clear to say I am a PA.... I am proud to be a PA - clearly state this to patients - (and then they ask about my schooling) and that is the answer - I do not mislead or allow them to think I am a Doc, but I have found the above description truly does get them to understand what our schooling is like Instead of knee jerk thinking this is bad - think about it - we have an opportuinity to change/define public views of our profession by the words we use to describe our education I for years have said that I attended my schooling as above and I think it will do nothing but help our standing The general public understands "medical school" and yet it is not "owned" by the AMA o the physician groups so politically and informationaly it only makes sense to describe my education in a way most people understand and comprehend Just so no one mis understands - I use these descriptors in describing what PA school is - not just a generic "what medical college did you go to?" to this question I always put in "I got my PA degree from XYZ Medical College" so I am NOT confused with a doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted September 9, 2012 Moderator Share Posted September 9, 2012 i can appreciate what you say about not ceeding ground as far as language. one of the reasons i think the AAPA should support a bridge program is because it lends weight to the notion of physician assistants as medical providers, thus improving standing. and if the role of a PA is delineated to patients the way that you do, to me as a consumer, that is something i appreciate. but i think if we are going to be put off by the notion of "Doctor Smith, your nurse practitioner" walking into an exam room, PAs should be similarly uncomfortable if they are presenting themselves in a way that isnt as clear as you do. i just recently found out that the person that treated me at the college health center i went to 7 years ago... the one i called doctor... was actually an MS FNP. it wouldnt have mattered to me know that, but nobody ever offered any correction or clarification. similarly, if a provider made mention at various times of when they were "in medical school", what other conclusion would someone in the patient chair come to? like it or not, the vernacular we currently use puts the term "medical school", as well as "doctor" under the umbrella of "physician". unless a provider is prepared to explain the intricacies like you are Ventana, to me (a consumer), thats a deceptive practice. id make it plenty awkward if i had to flesh that information out on my own as opposed to having everything presented appropriately. theres a reason we have fine print, but if you appreciate your patient, you make sure they understand whats going on in terms that are clear to them. Hence why PA's really need to slow down and explain what we are and what we do I constantly try to correct and educate my patients about what I am and what I do. Using familiar terms and descriptors does help speed this up and I have been known to compare a PA to a NP (gasp) but if the patient knows what an NP is I say we go through very different academic programs with PA school being much more intense, but in the real world we do the same thing. Also, I have stopped using the "I do 95% of what a doc does" as that is a lie in my casee - in out patient primary care I do 100% of what a doc does - there are a few things I can not sign - but I DO the same job. We need to slow down and educate what we are and using analogies ie medical school, only helps make this an easy effecient conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discogenic Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 From someone who is (at least for the moment) outside the PA profession, having a PA say they "went to medical school" is misleading and unhelpful. All this parsing of words and use of technicalities (e.g., your PA school also happens to have a MD school) feeds into the stereotype that some PAs think they are physicians. And I'm not trying to be inflammatory, but it also screams of insecurity and wannabe-ism. Of course PAs should educate and explain to patients that they are highly trained professionals trained in a medical model, that PA school is very rigorous and competitive, and all the rest. But bottom line, people associate medical school with MDs. Be proud you're a PA and went to PA school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jen0508 Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 Saying you graduated from med school when you're a PA is like saying you went to nursing school when you're a MA/CMA. exactly. i did a CNA program associated with a nursing program. if patients asked about my education, i would NEVER have said "i went to nursing school". that would imply that i was a nurse when i wasnt. that is the equivilant of a PA that went to a program associated with a med school saying " i went to medical school". yes i was a nursing assistant but i did NOT graduate from nursing school. if you have the desire to tell people you went to medical school then you should have become a MD/DO. point blank period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cinntsp Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 I refer to it as PA school but my ID badge does say "PA Medical Student." ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cinntsp Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 one of the reasons i think the AAPA should support a bridge program is because it lends weight to the notion of physician assistants as medical providers, thus improving standing. The AAPA needs to start promoting the PA profession itself. Focusing on supporting a bridge program would only give the appearance that the PA profession is viewed internally as merely a stepping stone to becoming a physician. That would certainly not improve the profession's standing with the public, legislators, medical community, or anyone else. Some PAs will go on to do a bridge and the rest will be answering "so...when will you become a doctor?" constantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andersenpa Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 I really can see the arguements on both sides - physicians do not ""own" I went to medical college or med school" - and honestly we should NOT be allowing them to lay claim to yet another item in the common language Semantically they do Let's not confuse the ideal state with the actual state PAs SHOULD NOT go around saying they attended MEDICAL SCHOOL We have a long road ahead of changing the culture and making people understand that PAs PRACTICE MEDICINE Then it won't matter what school we went to because what matters- the end product, someone who practices medicine- will be in front of them What matters is that, where the rubber meets the road Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beorp Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 From someone who is (at least for the moment) outside the PA profession, having a PA say they "went to medical school" is misleading and unhelpful. All this parsing of words and use of technicalities (e.g., your PA school also happens to have a MD school) feeds into the stereotype that some PAs think they are physicians. And I'm not trying to be inflammatory, but it also screams of insecurity and wannabe-ism. Of course PAs should educate and explain to patients that they are highly trained professionals trained in a medical model, that PA school is very rigorous and competitive, and all the rest. But bottom line, people associate medical school with MDs. Be proud you're a PA and went to PA school. Very well put! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcdavis Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 Why not simply state " I went to George Washington university school of medicine and ALLIED HEALTH SCIENCE". Eliminates doubt and satisfies an apparent inherent need to say "medicine" and "school" in the same sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andersenpa Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 Seems like we are running around the long way to get to the point. PAs practice medicine. Once that is established, "PA School" is a place where medical practitioners are educated, just like Med School is a place where medical practitioners are educated. Trying to hammer in that PAs attend medical school in any variation only adds to confusion in a time when we are trying to clearly define PAs and what they do. We already hate being confused with MAs. In the same vein, we don't need to be confused with MDs or DOs either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted September 9, 2012 Moderator Share Posted September 9, 2012 Semantically they doLet's not confuse the ideal state with the actual state PAs SHOULD NOT go around saying they attended MEDICAL SCHOOL We have a long road ahead of changing the culture and making people understand that PAs PRACTICE MEDICINE Then it won't matter what school we went to because what matters- the end product, someone who practices medicine- will be in front of them What matters is that, where the rubber meets the road my comments taken out of context make it appear I may well be a "wanna be" or "shoulda been a doc" Please re-read my comments before making any assumptions just to be clear - in explaining "What a PA" is and talking more to a specific patient once they broach the the subject with me - it is only in talking in way - where I have ALREADY identified myself as a PA - and am helping educate/explain what a PA is to a patient I never pas myself off as a doc, I don't say I went to medical school, and I am exceptionally clear and proud that I am a PA and actually point out that I love what I do - I am not a poser, not a wanna be, not a pseudo doc so please do not say that I am - re-read my prior posts to see exactly what I was saying. And in conclusion to this topic I will continue to say that I went to PA school at XYZ Medical School - this is a fact, and it is not something that I am going to hide and not say - as well I have been doing this for ~ 7 years along with the simple statement that my PA schooling is 3 years instead of doctor's 4 years and then I got a job instead of the doctor's that go on to 3-10 years of a residency. Patients understand this explanation and in no way am I claiming to be a doc - in fact this is in conversation ABOUT WHAT A PA IS please read my previous posts to learn more about this before you claim I am trying to pass myself off as something I am not..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andersenpa Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 my comments taken out of context make it appear I may well be a "wanna be" or "shoulda been a doc" Please re-read my comments before making any assumptions just to be clear - in explaining "What a PA" is and talking more to a specific patient once they broach the the subject with me - it is only in talking in way - where I have ALREADY identified myself as a PA - and am helping educate/explain what a PA is to a patient I never pas myself off as a doc, I don't say I went to medical school, and I am exceptionally clear and proud that I am a PA and actually point out that I love what I do - I am not a poser, not a wanna be, not a pseudo doc so please do not say that I am - re-read my prior posts to see exactly what I was saying. And in conclusion to this topic I will continue to say that I went to PA school at XYZ Medical School - this is a fact, and it is not something that I am going to hide and not say - as well I have been doing this for ~ 7 years along with the simple statement that my PA schooling is 3 years instead of doctor's 4 years and then I got a job instead of the doctor's that go on to 3-10 years of a residency. Patients understand this explanation and in no way am I claiming to be a doc - in fact this is in conversation ABOUT WHAT A PA IS please read my previous posts to learn more about this before you claim I am trying to pass myself off as something I am not..... V- I was only responding to your comment that "docs don't own I went to medical school" the rest is directed at the general idea on this thread from others that we should say we go to med school my fault for not being clear in my post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GatorRRT Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Anyone claiming they went to medical school as a PA should full well know they are doing the PA profession a disservice. The general public associates medical school with MDs only. Considering these are the people you are telling that you went to "medical school", you're misrepresenting yourself, intentionally or not. Be proud of your profession and take the time to explain what a PA is and how similar, but not yet equal, our training is to an MD. If anyone here generates self worth by overstating their creditentials, then earn that right and go on to "medical school". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GatorRRT Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 When I was taking prereqs for RT school at a local CC, I overheard one of our classmates proudly proclaim she was going to "med school" to get her RT. I laughed pretty damn hard at how pathetic it was. Just to reiterate, if you went to a PA school at a college of medicine, I have no problem with "I'm at U of Z med school studying to be a PA". But please don't call PA school medical school; we have enough issues with profession recognition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cinntsp Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Seems like we are running around the long way to get to the point.PAs practice medicine. Once that is established, "PA School" is a place where medical practitioners are educated, just like Med School is a place where medical practitioners are educated. Yep. The AAPA needs to let people know that PAs practice medicine and have a medical education--not "practice healthcare." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaston Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 PUBLIC perception is the key here. To us that work in medicine we know and understand the hair-splitting that takes place between professions. To the vast majority of people in this country, stating that you went to medical school automatically means that you are a physician. That is the reality of the situation. Yes, I studied medicine, but I will never say that I went to medical school because of the implications of that statement to the general public. It is my job to educate patients about what I am. Thankfully I work in an area where the reputation of my school is well known. This is the answer I give IF the question is asked: I attended the Emory University PA Program I have a Masters in Medicine I am a PA and I practice in the same capacity at the physicians at my office Takes all of 15 seconds, people understand it, and we move on to their HPI. That's my 2 cents. Seems to work well for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cideous Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Why can't PA's just be happy to be PA's? It's amazing how many PA's now seem to have paper skin. Name not said exactly right...Oh no! I can't say I went to PA school it has to be medical school...give me a break? Drop the identity crisis and be happy with what you are. I'm happy to have been a PA now for 19 years and yes....I went to PA school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCMA79 Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Cideous, I totally agree after 30+ yrs as a PA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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