My Time In Medical School- A PA's Perspective

[PAtoMD]

Hello PA Forum!

 

I wanted to drop in and share how my first year of medical school went. 

I am just now finishing up studying for my last in house exam tomorrow. We also have a preclinical NBME shelf exam Friday. I'll have a week off before I start my summer research internship for two months. Finding research has been one of the more frustrating parts of school. Certainly have had lots of leads and connections but nothing has come from it so far. Hopefully that changes this summer. 

 

It has certainly been the slowest fastest time of my life. It seems like yesterday I was packing up my things at my job and starting medical school a few short weeks later. There are times where I ask myself "why am I doing this" and remember how I enjoyed my job and coworkers or wish I was making money and doing whatever I wanted instead of studying. But I know it's a means to an end and that in the long run it was what I wanted in my career. 

 

School has been pleasantly surprising for the most part. I would say that my PA background has helped me tremendously throughout most of our first year curriculum. I was familiar with much of the anatomy from taking it in undergrad and then PA school. I would also say the clinical pearls or pathology they threw at us in first year were things I was familiar with. So given I had seen most things before I could concentrate more time to things I hadn't before. I would also argue that having gone through PA school and learning how I study and learn best as well as learning how to take tests has been my biggest X-factor. 

 

I would say the pace is much easier than PA school. For the most part we had two 1.5 hour lectures a day with anatomy lab or another type of lab sprinkled in throughout the week. Attendance is not mandatory and as the year progressed I went less and less. I haven't seen a difference between my study habits or retaining knowledge between the two. 

Looking at M2 schedule it seems more reminiscent of a PA school schedule. Lectures all days. Multiple tests in a week etc. Throw in physical exam training and multiple OSCEs. 

 

I am involved in multiple clubs and SGA. I am PA liaison for the one of them. I had a couple of residency programs and PAs come talk to them to give them a better idea of what their career is to look like. It has been fun giving back to the PA program. 

 

Just wanted to share that with you all. Open to questions and hope to be more active this summer with more time away from studying.

 

Also kept the thread open incase more updates are wanted during my time, potentially a pseudo-blog journal update type thing I've seen for residency programs. Would welcome others to join in this thread, MD, DO, APAP students etc, I know y'all are on here. 

 

 

 

Edited May 17, 2022 by PAtoMD

[Mayamom]

Congratulations!!   I'm sure PA prepared you in many ways.  Keep up the good work. 

[Cideous]

Well done and very smart.

[ventana]

Where are you studying??

 

[PAtoMD]

6 hours ago, ventana said:

Where are you studying??

 

In the southeastern US!

[jmj11]

There was a famous article about 20 years ago by a NP turned MD who had become anti-NP and anti-PA. She was describing how NP training was no match for med school and showed how ignorant NPs and PAs really are. Glad to hear a different perspective from you. In some ways you are fulfilling many of our fantasy's. 

[turnedintoamartian]

My collaborating physician had a close family death unexpectedly recently and was off for a week. We had no other physician in our practice so it was basically independent practice for a week though we did have another physician reach out as backup.

This has really made me consider Med school as getting collaborating physicians is apparently difficult and I don’t want my job to be in peril. Not to mention my current attending is fantastic and it seems unlikely to be that way next time.
 

Great update and interesting perspective, thanks!!

[PAtoMD]

47 minutes ago, jmj11 said:

There was a famous article about 20 years ago by a NP turned MD who had become anti-NP and anti-PA. She was describing how NP training was no match for med school and showed how ignorant NPs and PAs really are. Glad to hear a different perspective from you. In some ways you are fulfilling many of our fantasy's. 

Interesting. I believe there was an article more recently from a PA to MD saying similar things. I believe it was discussed here and she is apart of PPP.

 

A lot of my first year has been overlap. There are instances, particularly in anatomy, where things were new or a greater emphasis was provided here at medical school. Our neuro unit was almost entirely new to me and not something we emphasized at my PA program ( particular fibers in each nerve, brain stem nuclei etc). There was obviously an emphasis on histology which i didn't have in PA school. So there are differences which is to be expected but I think I have a good foundation from my previous schooling. 

 

Next year will be interesting to see the differences because that is where the meat and potatoes are AFAIK. 

 

Another things, is the amount of resources we have to study now our incredible. So many great outside resources to reinforce material that weren't around even when I was in PA school a few years ago. 

 

 

Edit: I am doing my best to be an advocate and help show my classmates the usefulness and utility of a PA as some hold some not so good sentiments. 

Edited May 17, 2022 by PAtoMD

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

@PAtoMD

thanks for starting the thread, and thanks for being a PA advocate. I’m sure you’ve learned a lot and I’ll be interested to hear from a source of integrity how much of that is retained and changes your day to day practice. I think you’ll find the real game changing learning will happen in residency.

I don’t recall if you had mentioned a specialty you’re interested in during our prior conversations? You probably did but I have very little space in my brain these days

[PAtoMD]

1 hour ago, LT_Oneal_PAC said:

@PAtoMD

thanks for starting the thread, and thanks for being a PA advocate. I’m sure you’ve learned a lot and I’ll be interested to hear from a source of integrity how much of that is retained and changes your day to day practice. I think you’ll find the real game changing learning will happen in residency.

I don’t recall if you had mentioned a specialty you’re interested in during our prior conversations? You probably did but I have very little space in my brain these days

Currently gunning for urology. It is the most competitive of the things I am interested in so if I change my mind I should be good for everything else.

 

Also open to rads, ER, anesthesia in no particular order.  

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

33 minutes ago, PAtoMD said:

Currently gunning for urology. It is the most competitive of the things I am interested in so if I change my mind I should be good for everything else.

 

Also open to rads, ER, anesthesia in no particular order.  

Urology, the most awesome of all surgeons with only optho a close second. Definitely see you in that. 

[PAtoMD]

1 hour ago, LT_Oneal_PAC said:

Urology, the most awesome of all surgeons with only optho a close second. Definitely see you in that. 

I was considering optho. We have preclinical exposures where we essentially shadow half and one of mine was optho. Didn’t see surgical aspect of optho but saw the day to day. I wasn’t in love with the chronic care and eye exams component.

 

however, I enjoy day to day of urology plus the procedures and potentially robotics. 

[EMEDPA]

Pinned for future commentary. Thank you for writing this.

[newton9686]

Congrats. I just finished my first year of DO school. It about killed me just from a logistical prospective (commuting 2 hours a day) and having to learn a lot of things that don’t seem super clinically relevant such as cranial osteopathic manipulation. I’m jealous that y’all don’t require attendance. We have to be there 75% of the lectures which is just a nuisance and burns you out. Awesome that you are doing research this summer. I’ve decided to pretty much forgo research and work a locum assignment instead. I’ve looked at urology as well, because it has such a wide scope and great patient relationships, but realistically I’m probably shooting for something less competitive like anesthesia or med/peds. Hell I actually really like psych. But DM me if you want another PA to talk to that’s going through the same process as you. I know how exciting but how grueling it can be.

 

[PAtoMD]

5 hours ago, newton9686 said:

Congrats. I just finished my first year of DO school. It about killed me just from a logistical prospective (commuting 2 hours a day) and having to learn a lot of things that don’t seem super clinically relevant such as cranial osteopathic manipulation. I’m jealous that y’all don’t require attendance. We have to be there 75% of the lectures which is just a nuisance and burns you out. Awesome that you are doing research this summer. I’ve decided to pretty much forgo research and work a locum assignment instead. I’ve looked at urology as well, because it has such a wide scope and great patient relationships, but realistically I’m probably shooting for something less competitive like anesthesia or med/peds. Hell I actually really like psych. But DM me if you want another PA to talk to that’s going through the same process as you. I know how exciting but how grueling it can be.

 

Congratulations to you too!

 

2 hour commute is brutal. When I go to campus I complain about my 30-45 minutes commute due to the awful traffic we have. 

 

My class seemed to cause some rumblings this year with our performance and whispers of mandatory lecture was on the table.. No thank you. 

 

Please feel free to drop some info about yourself and your first year as well for the whole forum. I wanted to this to be a place for me to come to and catch everyone up but also the other PAs who went onto medical school to share their experience as well. 

[FriarMedic]

Just started my first day of residency. It’s amazing how fast school flies by. Wait until m2-m4 , your PA background will help you even more when it becomes more clinical focused and then rotations you will do very well. 
 

I’ll throw in an additional perspective to this thread on working during school. I worked about 3 urgent care shifts per month during all 4 years of med school. Did more shifts during any breaks, online rotations or slower periods in general. I had 3 or 4 different gigs so I had more flexibility to grab shifts when I could.  With kids at home I actually got more anki studying done during these shifts than a weekend at home. It was nice to supplement salary to reduce overall loan burden. 

[PAtoMD]

18 minutes ago, FriarMedic said:

Just started my first day of residency. It’s amazing how fast school flies by. Wait until m2-m4 , your PA background will help you even more when it becomes more clinical focused and then rotations you will do very well. 
 

I’ll throw in an additional perspective to this thread on working during school. I worked about 3 urgent care shifts per month during all 4 years of med school. Did more shifts during any breaks, online rotations or slower periods in general. I had 3 or 4 different gigs so I had more flexibility to grab shifts when I could.  With kids at home I actually got more anki studying done during these shifts than a weekend at home. It was nice to supplement salary to reduce overall loan burden. 

Thank you for contributing. Super stoked for you and congratulations on matching and hopefully intern year is kind to you.

 

I am excited for M2-M4, mostly M3/4, ive heard M2 is brutal. But a P/F step will be nice. 
I am sad my summer is moving so fast. My summer program + tutoring anatomy has it flying by so far.

 

Please keep us updated on residency. I think that would be a great perspective for this thread. Something I can't offer for a few years. 

[Eagle5]

PAtoMD,

It is awesome to read about your journey. I am also considering the MD route, I am a very non traditional potential applicant. I will be 41 (currently 38) by the time I start (if accepted), I have been hungry for more and more medical knowledge since 2007, became an army medic then PA and now undergoing an EM fellowship.

I enjoy being a PA but I know that our profession needs some serious advocating; I am ok with working under/with a physician but it is a bit burdensome trying to find a collaborating physician with new jobs.

I will start retaking all my science classes in 2024, MCAT in 2025. I hope I can walk in your footsteps one day and give back not only to patients but PAs as well.

[PAtoMD]

4 hours ago, Eagle5 said:

PAtoMD,

It is awesome to read about your journey. I am also considering the MD route, I am a very non traditional potential applicant. I will be 41 (currently 38) by the time I start (if accepted), I have been hungry for more and more medical knowledge since 2007, became an army medic then PA and now undergoing an EM fellowship.

I enjoy being a PA but I know that our profession needs some serious advocating; I am ok with working under/with a physician but it is a bit burdensome trying to find a collaborating physician with new jobs.

I will start retaking all my science classes in 2024, MCAT in 2025. I hope I can walk in your footsteps one day and give back not only to patients but PAs as well.

Best of luck to you. Please feel free to reach out to me on PM if you have any questions about classes or how to approach the MCAT. 

 

You'll do great and hope the journey works out. Please keep us posted!

[PAtoMD]

As my M1 summer officially ends tonight I wanted to write an update about how my summer went. 

 

My summer internship went really well. I was fortunate enough to be paired with a great physician scientist. He had me write up a review paper on the epigenetics of RCC which I am happy to announce was published this past Friday. This review paper should set the ground work for his proposal for a much larger project hat he wants me to be apart of. So I'm hoping that pulls through.

 

I've mentioned on another thread about participating in a project about surgical APP autonomy. We will be looking specifically at autonomy/independence and an APPS perceived autonomy with desired autonomy and their respective trainings. I met with him over the summer and that project should be going on throughout the year. I am really excited to work on that project. 

 

Also, will be helping out on another project at the other more prestigious medical school in my city since my program doesn't have a home urology program (really narrowing down my exact location of my school lol)

 

We received our course schedule for the year which is subject to change but looks like they're starting us off slowly. We start off with pharmacology and pathology as the two heavy courses plus a course that encompasses ethics, physical exam, and other subjects that don't warrant their own course. As the semester progresses we add microbiology and pathophysiology. Courses second year are a year long at my program vs 2ish month blocks during first year. 

 

Should be a fun year. I am ready to get back into the swing of things. I am looking forward to continuing my work as a PA liaison and help out in SGA. As well as do more research and become more competitive for residency applications. 

 

Don't imagine posting anymore updates until possibly winter time at the earliest as not much should transpire over this first semester.

 

 

[VentiMacchiato]

PAToMD or others,

I was wondering if you think a post bacc would be beneficial to a PA who’s been out of school for awhile (say 15 years) prior to applying for med school.

Thoughts?

Thanks for input.

[PAtoMD]

@VentiMacchiato

 

Most likely. I say this because many schools will tell you that your classes are too old. The general rule is 10 years I believe. However, make some phone calls and see what the actual rule is. Sometimes its more of a guideline than a rule. I've read  a strong MCAT waives those requirements.

 

Also depends on you as a student. If you're strong academically and think you can study for the MCAT then go for it. I was 5 years removed from the science classes when I took the MCAT and self studied OChem2 and Physics 2. But if you want the refresher, then a post bach with biochem, ochem, physics, and bio may be necessary to prep for MCAT and satisfy prereqs. 

 

a SMP is also a viable option but a do it yourself post-bach would be cheaper. Especially at CC or local uni

[newton9686]

Hey Team,

I wanted to update this post as it had been a couple months. 2nd year student here. 

- At the end of the day, MD versus DO doesn’t matter when you graduate. There are some challenges as a DO that you have to overcome (mainly some specialities and programs that aren’t super DO friendly). As a student my main challenge has been Osteopathic Medicine. It is a huge nuisance, and sometimes it is the cherry on top of the burnout Sunday.  It’s a lot of memorizing and it’s cumulative which is the worse part especially when you have to spend time processing the material to memorize. If you can memorize charts with ease regardless of whether you understand or like the material, then it wont be as bad. I still recommend DO school if its your only option, but if all possible, unless you have a strong desire to do something MSK and can withstand a lot of questionable theoretical statements and non evidence based medicine like cranial manipulation, try to go MD in my humble opinion. It can be challenging when you understand the real world of medicine as a PA and have spent your career valuing, learning and practicing evidence based medicine. 

- No attendance policy is life. After cost and location, this should be your #1 priority when looking for a program as a PA. We still have 2-3 mandatory labs a week, but it is so much more efficient to watch lectures from home on 2x speed. It has made medical school bearable and possible to continue to work which is crucial for many PAs going back to school.

- It’s a long road. Medical school is more of a marathon than a sprint. As a PA you will have the foundation to process the majority information in medical school much easier than your average undergrad without significant medical experience. Yes, you will study all the time, but its doable if you are determined. The key is keeping the momentum, maintaining your grind and not loosing your mental sanity as you are running the triple marathon that is medical medical school after running the double marathon that is PA school and another marathon or two as a PA during COVID.

- Think really really hard about the cost benefit analysis. Trust me, I’ve been there when I would rather be a electrician or carpenter than continue to work in a toxic environment where you aren’t appreciated as a PA. But the tuition cost can equally take it’s toll on you when you are already in debt from PA school. Especially when you know at the end of the day you are paying for a residency spot. If I could go back an give myself a piece of advice it would be this. Take the extra year, improve your MCAT score, move, figure out how to attend a instate MD school even if I do love my program.

- While medical school is at the end of the day is a ticket to residency for a PA, make no mistake. You will learn a ton. As a hospitalist PA with 4+ years of experience I taught myself a lot. But I knew a lot of what to do, but not always the why.  For some this doesn’t really matter, but if you are like me when you do better understanding the why, medical school can be awesome because it is all about understanding the why. Especially when you account for the fact that you have already been introduced to most topics, you really will have an opportunity to dig into the details and learn the physiology. Taking anatomy a second time was very valuable for me as well because instead of drowning like most of us do the first time, you can focus on more of the details. . 

I am sure more wisdom ( aka unsolicited opinions) will come as I proceed. Feel free to message me if you have any questions. 

 

Cheers,

Newton 

 

 

[sas5814]

Awesome! Great update and insight. I am wayyyy to old to even consider such a thing  but I'm enjoying reading about your venture.

[EMPAatLucentWellness]

What a fun thread! It's been fun reading about everyone's experiences!

I thought med school would have been more intense than PA school (and for longer) which is why I took the PA route!  Are the fresh from undergrad students struggling like we did in PA school? Is it more manageable for you all primarily bc of previous experience or is the pace that much more reasonable for everyone?  I'm 41 so not considering it but just curious!