Fired from my first job as a Physician Assistant? I am incredibly devastated and do not know how to move on

[Flower27]

Basically, I was fired for a patient search. My friend was in the hospital and I stupidly searched her name in the EMR. I did not go into access the chart but long story short, there was an investigation. I was suspended for two weeks and then told I was terminated. Oddly enough, my supervisor that same shift I was suspended also violated HIPAA. He basically revealed patient details of a CEO of the organization's friend. He told the entire teams chat that the patient was going for a colonoscopy. They did not take any action against him. in addition to this, this work environment has been toxic as a new graduate PA. I was put with a verbally abusive preceptor who told me I was delayed, "anyone on this team would know the answers to this," called me stupid. As a result of all of this hostility, I was diagnosed later on with Depression and Anxiety. Now this termination is making it so much worse. I am worried if I will ever be able to work for a hospital system again, I feel like my career is over. Please offer kind advice, please.

[Flower27]

During the investigation, the lady from corporate compliance stole my phone out of my hand and decided to scroll up my entire phone without my permission. She also went on to ask me about my personal life tragedies.

[UGoLong]

You seem to be focused on what everyone else did that was also wrong which probably won't get you anywhere in the end. I'm sure it all was a shocking experience, especially if you're a new grad. On the other hand, if the place was that non-supportive, moving on now will likely prove to have a better outcome in the end.

As far as being anxious and depressed, I suspect that is less clinical and more situational, kind of like bereavement has features of depression but it is caused by external factors. 

Take a break, get whatever help you think you need (psychological, legal, etc) and then get back in the game somewhere else.

Good luck next time.

[Mayamom]

Not really sure what to say.  Get your resume updated & start looking for a new job.  If new employer asks why you are leaving just say something generic "it wasn't a good fit"  But lessoned learned.  You cannot look anyone up unless you are directly involved in their care.  Your career is not over.  Your human.   We make mistakes. 

[Sunnyn]

Can one say......Toxic envirnoment?, No room for growth? in an interview.

[Flower27]

1 hour ago, Sunnyn said:

Can one say......Toxic envirnoment?, No room for growth? in an interview.

Yeah very toxic indeed

 

[Sunnyn]

Do they yell, scream, make things up....just to give one a hard time?  Is that appropriate to say in an interview?

[rev ronin]

Reading between the lines, you would have gotten a warning if your performance was good.  I got a warning for booking my daughter into an appointment with my SP using the provider interface, not even opening her chart, at Group Health. She had gotten some bad second degree burns, (not my fault, don't ever get McDonald's hot cocoa for your kids in a drive through, and tell your loved ones not to do it either) and I was not going to wait for a burn center referral. Could they have fired me for it? Sure, but instead I got a talking to and a warning, which was appropriate under "just culture"--I had not intended to violate anyone's privacy and there was no proactive warning that what I was trying to do was forbidden--they found it weeks later on an audit. Did I regret doing it? Nope.  Would I do it again in the same circumstance? Not the same way--I would have bugged him at home and made him log in remotely, or an on-call nurse or someone, to add the appointment.

So, yeah, you can blame other people, and it sounds like the place is kind of a lame work environment, but ultimately if someone asks you why you left, you can either say that you were fired for HIPAA violation, or you can lie about it.

[kettle]

If at all possible relocate, pick up move 3+ hours away. Go to an area you like and you can say relocation was something you desired. 

For your anxiety and depression, at some point everyone experiences that, don't feel alone, get mental health help in the form of counseling, peer support and medication if need be, there is no shame in this. Remember you are still a licensed PA, you may have been let go but you are STILL A PA. 

[doubledose]

Agree with Rev, being forward is the best approach in these situations. If you "omit" you were let go and they contact your reference, you will look as though nothing was learned (AKA what will you then "omit" from your new employer and only leads to more questions.) 

Make it a learning point in our life, every one has experienced these moments (from different situations), myself included. All of us just do the only thing that you CAN do, move forward with your life or let it own you. 

More to the point, the medical community is smaller than you think, and our networking is strong and nothing stays out of the light for long. I recently saw a patient in MS that also saw my friend in WA if that gives you any idea what I mean. 

 

[Sunnyn]

Can one be faulted for a toxic environment? Is there a way to mention something like this....and be in the clear? 

[doubledose]

When you say stuff like that it looks like you are not trying to own your mistake.

If I were interviewing someone for a company I owned (or managed) and they use the generic "toxic environment" this would be a flag for me as they see their self as different from everyone else and that they are unique, which usually contributes to toxic environments.

Remember, we are a team in medicine. I have worked in toxic environments, the people who usually make it bearable are picking up for others and are irreplaceable. Finger pointing usually gets no one anywhere and creates the toxic environment.

I learned to think of things in term of processes which can be improved. This usually shines during interviews, "I recommended making an SOP (standard operating procedure) so that everyone uses the same process and will get the same outcomes." This will make you look like a problem solver, rather than a finger pointer. 

[Reality Check 2]

Toxic environment or not - what you did was wrong and you knew it.

You have to own it.

A private clinic I worked in interviewed an MA candidate - yes, I know - it's an MA not a PA - hear me out.

She worked in a local hospital where a very famous person died and she looked up her chart to see why she died.

It was dumb, it was wrong, it was unethical and it was illegal as she had nothing to do with the patient's care.

When she interviewed with us - she had no real remorse - was more upset about being caught and didn't see it as a big deal. She tried to make it "normal" - 'she was so famous, anyone would have looked'.......

We obviously did not hire her. She would not OWN her actions.

Own your actions - if you cite a toxic environment as a "cause" for your behavior or an excuse - it really looks like you were part of the toxicity. 

There is no excuse for what you did. Just because someone else did it and got away with it does not justify it. 

You have to own it and have a remediation plan to agree to be heavily monitored or show signs you take it seriously as it impacts the credibility of any practice or setting. 

Move forward humbly and with knowledge that you will have to rebuild trust with any organization.

Seek out a counselor if possible to continue to manage this process and know and keep your boundaries.

It is a painful growth process - but it is yours to follow.

[ventana]

Own it emotionally.  
but in job interview be nondescript.  “I didn’t fit into the corporate culture”.  
mid pressed you have to decide if you will reveal the truth or not.  

[sas5814]

First things first. Own what you did and accept the consequences. Until you do that you will be stuck...be a victim. You are a victim of a bad choice you made. Hug the cactus and then start moving  on.

The most important thing is to make a plan and start some forward movement. Feeling helpless and hopeless is paralyzing.

Get unstuck. After that momentum will develop. Somewhere way down the line you will understand this was, ultimately, a good thing.

You aren't the first new grad to do something foolish and get fired. It is far worse for a late career PA to do something like this. The most important thing is to own it and learn from it. Then get moving.

[Sunnyn]

Does it look bad....if one says that they tried, but the way the envirnoment is....it was not conducive to my learning, and further growth ------ can this be used in this case....being a new grad if one had to explain to a new job interviewer?

 

 

 

Edited April 18, 2022 by Sunnyn

[Reality Check 2]

Sunnyn - paraphrase - "it was not a good fit"

Don't get too specific.

Just didn't mesh, didn't match up - something to that effect.

Maybe "I am looking for an environment with mentoring and a focus on learning to guide me to independence in the style the practice needs"

Sometimes a shovel is truly a shovel and no pretty words will make it anything else.

 

[sas5814]

or the other approach... whole, total honesty with a "I did something stupid and now I know better" added on.

People respond to honesty and humility.

[greenmood]

On 4/17/2022 at 10:57 AM, Sunnyn said:

Can one be faulted for a toxic environment? Is there a way to mention something like this....and be in the clear? 

You can't use those words without looking like you're shifting blame and burning bridges. A new employer will immediately wonder about the details... and if you start getting into details you are probably not going to get the job. Your interviewer will see that you are willing to throw an old employer under the bus, so what is to stop you from doing it again with them in the future? It moves the focus of the conversation from your excellent qualities and how great you are for the new job, onto all these negative problems you had at your last job. You don't want the focus of an interview to be on problems.

Others in the thread have given really good examples of vague language that explains what you are hoping to get out of a new job culture without trashing your old employer. Use that.

For OP,  your career isn't over. You definitely knew better. You are probably reeling right now, but shifting blame for the firing onto the employer isn't going to help you move on. Take some time if you can afford it. Get to a place where you can acknowledge both that you made a bad mistake and that the job was a poor fit. Then take a deep breath and dust off the resume.

[Sunnyn]

22 hours ago, greenmood said:

You can't use those words without looking like you're shifting blame and burning bridges. A new employer will immediately wonder about the details... and if you start getting into details you are probably not going to get the job. Your interviewer will see that you are willing to throw an old employer under the bus, so what is to stop you from doing it again with them in the future? It moves the focus of the conversation from your excellent qualities and how great you are for the new job, onto all these negative problems you had at your last job. You don't want the focus of an interview to be on problems.

Others in the thread have given really good examples of vague language that explains what you are hoping to get out of a new job culture without trashing your old employer. Use that.

For OP,  your career isn't over. You definitely knew better. You are probably reeling right now, but shifting blame for the firing onto the employer isn't going to help you move on. Take some time if you can afford it. Get to a place where you can acknowledge both that you made a bad mistake and that the job was a poor fit. Then take a deep breath and dust off the resume.

This is an interesting suggestion as others have made....but after all one can only do so much, especially if they have  tried, but the envirnoment was simply toxic. And the employer was bent upon doing something.....one is at their mercy., which unfortunately, is very sad. 

Would it have been better to just call it quits before you anticipate the firing to happen....and then perhaps stay in the clear with one's story of trying to learn more (not in the job), independence, etc?

[sas5814]

I don't think the suggestions have any opinion on whether or not the work place was toxic. Rather it was about how to explain leaving employment. It doesn't matter if they pushed her to the ground and kicked and beat her (OK it does but its hyperbole for the sake of emphasis) a new employer will not respond well to trash talking an old one. Period. No matter the justification it is a big red flag for an employer doing an interview.

Leaving is pretty much always better than getting fired. Its far easier to say "it just wasn't a good fit" when you leave under your own steam. 

[ventana]

Enviroment makes a huge difference....

 

I was ready to try to walk away from medicine last year.  Just was done, doNE, DONE

 

left my hospital system, in a neightboring state with a great system (yes they have their issues but so much better)..... and I think I can make it another 10 years till I retire.......