Moderator ventana Posted April 7, 2022 Moderator Share Posted April 7, 2022 This came up thus am. 660 hours of experience. Yeah no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas5814 Posted April 7, 2022 Share Posted April 7, 2022 I used to work for one of the major systems in my area and I was in the education department to renew my CPR. The wall was covered in different flyers about educational things including 4 online NP programs. They are simply going to populate us to death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator rev ronin Posted April 7, 2022 Administrator Share Posted April 7, 2022 I agree that lumping us in with NPs is bad for us, good for the NPs. I agree that we should carefully and honestly distinguish ourselves. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kettle Posted April 7, 2022 Share Posted April 7, 2022 I have zero issues letting people know my Masters is more semester hours than DNP and more clinical hours and far more than a masters NP. Just have to sell the profession. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hope2PA Posted April 7, 2022 Share Posted April 7, 2022 Unfortunately you are separate in some patients mind, not to mention all the people that NPs and CNO’s tell that they are practitioners and PAs are assistant that can’t do anything without physicians. We had a patient yesterday who left the office because physician was not available and she refused PA. She was referred to the office by her NP primary care provider. Explaining what a PA is didn’t help, she wasn’t going to see an assistant, even with 12+ years specialty experience. NPs will blatantly publish they have 3 years education to PA 2 year. Somehow forgetting it’s really, 6 seminars of 6-8 credits compared to 7 semesters, continuous, 18 hours each. PAs are so considerate and don’t want to step on anyones toes. WHY? 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iconic Posted April 7, 2022 Share Posted April 7, 2022 The easiest way I find to explain what a PA is to patients "similar to NP". For some reason, no one ever questions that any further Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas5814 Posted April 7, 2022 Share Posted April 7, 2022 20 years ago I was running for president of the Texas academy having served on the board for a while and ending my term as VP. One of my key talking points was having a unique identity separate from the NPs. I wasn't deriding the NPs at all. I was just advocating that we needed to talk about our brand and stop being lumped in with the NPs. This was such a frightening thought to most of the people in TAPA they organized against me and someone who had been president before came out of "retirement" to run against me. he actually said he was concerned about how such a move would affect our relationship with the nurses. Of course I had other crazy ideas like the physicians are only our friends when they can control us. Oh well.... I guess timing is everything. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted April 7, 2022 Author Moderator Share Posted April 7, 2022 4 hours ago, iconic said: The easiest way I find to explain what a PA is to patients "similar to NP". For some reason, no one ever questions that any further oh no, I used to say that when I respected the NP profession and they were comparable to PA Now 20 years later I would never compare myself to NP. Have lots of patients who have had not great experiences with NP and prefer MD - but I can still see them.... please don't say "like NP" we are not like them.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAAdmission Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 1 hour ago, ventana said: please don't say "like NP" we are not like them.... Years ago, I heard coworkers say we were "between a nurse and a doctor." It was cringey. Now that NPs are so well known, we should start saying we are "between an NP and a doctor." 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator rev ronin Posted April 8, 2022 Administrator Share Posted April 8, 2022 1 minute ago, CAAdmission said: Now that NPs are so well known, we should start saying we are "between an NP and a doctor." This should be our new normal. I'm using it from here on out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kettle Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 I'd be a significantly richer man if I was paid everytime a patient told me they like PA's over MD's and NP's as they feel like we listen and they are heard. Apparently our profession overall does a good job putting things into layman's terms. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LT_Oneal_PAC Posted April 8, 2022 Moderator Share Posted April 8, 2022 9 hours ago, kettle said: I have zero issues letting people know my Masters is more semester hours than DNP and more clinical hours and far more than a masters NP. Just have to sell the profession. As I’m the only PA in my hospital, politics precludes me from putting my superior education out there as I could easily find myself in a hostile work environment. My medical director, an ACEP president hopeful, very much understands the difference though and points it out frequently to me at least. I certainly believe that we should tout our clinical experience on the national stage, but we can do that without denigrating another profession. We don’t want to be seen doing the same thing we claim against physician groups. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAAdmission Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 Facts don't denigrate. It's simple numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LT_Oneal_PAC Posted April 8, 2022 Moderator Share Posted April 8, 2022 7 minutes ago, CAAdmission said: Facts don't denigrate. It's simple numbers. I still don’t believe in negative campaigns. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cideous Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 You guys have no idea just how much NP's are destroying us legislatively. As a govt inspector I can tell you this....the PA profession is dying in states where NP's have full autonomy...and right fast. It's almost become comical to those of us in regulation how poorly PA's are performing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iconic Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 22 minutes ago, Cideous said: You guys have no idea just how much NP's are destroying us legislatively. As a govt inspector I can tell you this....the PA profession is dying in states where NP's have full autonomy...and right fast. It's almost become comical to those of us in regulation how poorly PA's are performing. I don't think the goal of NPs is to destroy us - they are watching for their best interest. The problem is with PAs apathy about our own profession; which has nothing to do with NPs 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hope2PA Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 11 hours ago, iconic said: I don't think the goal of NPs is to destroy us - they are watching for their best interest. The problem is with PAs apathy about our own profession; which has nothing to do with NPs Then you are enjoying the bliss of ignorance. Colorado nurse legislator was one of the individuals that denied PA OTP, it was ok for MP, nurse groups have written against PA progressing in Tennessee, they blatantly advertise their education as being more stringent than PA. In medical facilities, behind your back, CNOs tell CEOs that you are nothing more than assistants and they are practitioner. Also, PAs, to often, are stupidly apathetic about the profession’s future . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAAdmission Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 8 minutes ago, Hope2PA said: they blatantly advertise their education as being more stringent than PA. It'd be fun to catch them in a lie like this. Again, simple numbers will show this is a farce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator rev ronin Posted April 8, 2022 Administrator Share Posted April 8, 2022 20 minutes ago, CAAdmission said: It'd be fun to catch them in a lie like this. Again, simple numbers will show this is a farce. Dewan MJ, Norcini JJ. Pathways to Independent Primary Care Clinical Practice: How Tall Is the Shortest Giant?. Acad Med. 2019;94(7):950-954. doi:10.1097/ACM.0000000000002764 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iconic Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 28 minutes ago, CAAdmission said: It'd be fun to catch them in a lie like this. Again, simple numbers will show this is a farce. They are a doctor of nursing practice, and most of us are masters of physician assistant studies; no one is gonna dig deeper than that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grinder993 Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 Well, it's been awhile since I have checked in on the Forum. Seems much hasn't changed. Still the same handful of activists rowing a mostly empty boat. I have read through the thread, seems we all know the problems. At least those of us here, but what are we doing about it? Why are we unable to gain traction moving our agenda. Why is there still so much apathy among our profession? Why is it considered a negative campaign to point out the glaring differences between PA and NP training, why can we not proudly and loudly say so? Why do we tip toe around the AMA and ACEP while the ANA stomps on the same toes? We complain a lot, we don't do much. There is a general lack of anger among PAs. It seems that for the small group of activists present on this forum, we are carrying an anger and sense of injustice being done to our profession that isn't apparently shared by the majority of our colleagues. If your blood pressure isn't high enough, have you read the new ACEP Policy Statement regarding PA/NP practice in the ED? We fight back or our profession dies. There is no third path. “The pessimist complains about the wind. The optimist expects it to change. The realist adjusts the sail.” William A. Ward 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iconic Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 NPs have won the public over physicians who obviously have a lot more training than both of us; I don't think we are going to gain much traction yelling about extra however many hours of training we have over them. I think we would do best working together with nurses, as clearly we have not done well on our own 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cideous Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 We had our chance to adjust the sails with the name change to Medical Practitioner, then start to build our brand with a name that people would respect unlike "Assistant" or "Associate". We spent the money and the evidence backed study clearly indicated Medical Care Practitioner was our best chance to right the ship. Stunningly the leadership across the board ignored it. That was our one chance. Little to nothing will change until our name changes which now will not happen. I've said it before and I will say it again. Inside of 10 years PA's will be mostly present only in surgery and some govt positions. Once Texas approves complete NP autonomy, it will be the final piece they need to run the table. I don't practice anymore but it's hard to give almost 30 years of your life to a profession only to watch it put a gun to it's head and pull the trigger. Ah well. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAAdmission Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 2 minutes ago, Cideous said: We had our chance to adjust the sails with the name change to Medical Practitioner, Don't forget "Praxician." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas5814 Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 3 minutes ago, CAAdmission said: Don't forget "Praxician." I actually made an argument for Praxician. It was totally unique and untied us from any other group. If we are going to re-educate everyone start with a clean slate and a unique title. I agree we are going to disappear. Most of the "everything is just fine" crowd is either already retired or will be after the ship sinks. They will sit comfortably at home and wonder... who saw that coming? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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