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How many PAs can a physician supervise?


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I am trying to get some clarification on the limits to how many PAs one physician can supervise. I understand that the limits vary by state but my question is specific to Physicians that are licensed in and supervise PAs in multiple states. I was having trouble finding information regarding the legality.

Say a physician is licensed in 2 different states. One state has a limit that the SP can supervise 4 PAs and the other state has a limit that the SP can supervise 5 PAs. Does that mean the SP can only supervise 4 PAs total as that is the stricter supervision requirement or can they supervise 9 PAs total, 4 that are licensed in the one state and 5 that are licensed in the other? 

Trying to get some clarification about how this works 

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Another thing to think of is the total number of PA's the physician can supervise vs the number of PA's they can supervise concurrently.  This comes in to play especially in EM.  One group I was a part of had about 10 PA's (plus a couple of NP's).  All of the docs had supervisory agreements with all of the PA's.  However, on a given shift, they were never supervising more than 1-2 PA's at a time.  Some states, e.g. Ohio, have restrictions worded that way.

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The most progressive states are doing away with “supervision” and going to collaboration. Only about five states so far but gaining traction.

Utah licensure gives you more autonomy as you increase in hours of experience. The base is 10000 hrs - approx 2080 employment hours per yr x yrs of practice. About 5 yrs - ish.

Docs no longer are “burdened” with supervision and the whole numbers game.

I think my 60000 hrs plus makes me lower maintenance…..

Maybe someday they will write it so us old experienced fossils can collaborate for the younglings, PA to PA.

And federal work says you can have a license in any state and they go by your highest licensure. We just have a collaborating doc in our federal paperwork. 

Teamwork works - we all need each other.

Read the fine print of state legislation and dissect carefully. Work to the highest extent of your license. Push for more. 

 

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17 hours ago, 123ABC123 said:

I am trying to get some clarification on the limits to how many PAs one physician can supervise. I understand that the limits vary by state but my question is specific to Physicians that are licensed in and supervise PAs in multiple states. I was having trouble finding information regarding the legality.

Say a physician is licensed in 2 different states. One state has a limit that the SP can supervise 4 PAs and the other state has a limit that the SP can supervise 5 PAs. Does that mean the SP can only supervise 4 PAs total as that is the stricter supervision requirement or can they supervise 9 PAs total, 4 that are licensed in the one state and 5 that are licensed in the other? 

Trying to get some clarification about how this works 

Another physician trying to make money off PAs back. Not in Utah. Soon OTP passes and we can all work freely without you being around.

Edited by UnionizePAnow
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10 hours ago, Reality Check 2 said:

The most progressive states are doing away with “supervision” and going to collaboration. Only about five states so far but gaining traction.

Utah licensure gives you more autonomy as you increase in hours of experience. The base is 10000 hrs - approx 2080 employment hours per yr x yrs of practice. About 5 yrs - ish.

Docs no longer are “burdened” with supervision and the whole numbers game.

I think my 60000 hrs plus makes me lower maintenance…..

Maybe someday they will write it so us old experienced fossils can collaborate for the younglings, PA to PA.

And federal work says you can have a license in any state and they go by your highest licensure. We just have a collaborating doc in our federal paperwork. 

Teamwork works - we all need each other.

Read the fine print of state legislation and dissect carefully. Work to the highest extent of your license. Push for more. 

 

PAs can practice independently  (not just more autonomy) in UTAH after working certain number of hours. We need something like this in every state. Or course this will piss off some docs like the OP who wants to use us to fatten their profits. NPs soon will get independence in all states. Docs would not be able to push them around because if they do they would just go open their own clinics... then Docs bottom lines go down ahah

Edited by UnionizePAnow
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51 minutes ago, UnionizePAnow said:

PAs can practice independently  (not just more autonomy) in UTAH after working certain number of hours. We need something like this in every state. Or course this will piss off some docs like the OP who wants to use us to fatten their profits. NPs soon will get independence in all states. Docs would not be able to push them around because if they do they would just go open their own clinics... then Docs bottom lines go down ahah

Actually I am a PA. Pretty bold of you to assume I'm using a PA forum to figure out how to profit off of PAs. I'm just trying to make sure I'm practicing within the scope of the law.

I am entirely autonomous in my current role and pretty much practice independently as I'm the sole provider in my clinic. My SP and collaborating providers are available by phone/telemed 24/7 if I needed something. I don't need my notes cosigned. So I do have a lot of "independence" but just wanted to make sure my supervision was legal if the SP is supervising others in various states as well.

If you don't have any thing nice to say and can't provide advice to answer my question, move along.

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Interesting question and one I never thought about before. As above I have never heard of a medical board even questioning physicians about other states. I think with the boom in telehealth it will likely become a question. While I loathe the whole supervision thing I can see some raised eyebrows over Dr A "supervising" 100 PAs in 20 different states.

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2 hours ago, sas5814 said:

Interesting question and one I never thought about before. As above I have never heard of a medical board even questioning physicians about other states. I think with the boom in telehealth it will likely become a question. While I loathe the whole supervision thing I can see some raised eyebrows over Dr A "supervising" 100 PAs in 20 different states.

That is because state-based medical licensing is a scam 

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1 hour ago, RyanM said:

There may be a federal statue on how many providers a physician can supervise in the United States, not sure though.

Nope 

determined at state level. 
no cross over state to state that I am aware of. 

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