Who is considering leaving the profession because of the pandemic?

[jmj11]

I saw a retail pharmacist (for my Moderna #4) and he was totally stressed out. His words, "I hate my life. I'm living a friggin nightmare." I ask him, "Are pharmacist leaving the profession?" His answer, "By the droves."

Same day, I heard a story on NPR (I think) that stated 1 in 5 people in health care said they are definitely leaving health care after this. So my question, are you seeing the same attrition among your PA colleagues as the result of COVID? Or, do you see new opportunities arising in this new world?

[rev ronin]

Just now, jmj11 said:

I saw a retail pharmacist (for my Moderna #4) and he was totally stressed out. His words, "I hate my life. I'm living a friggin nightmare." I ask him, "Are pharmacist leaving the profession?" His answer, "By the droves."

Same day, I heard a story on NPR (I think) that stated 1 in 5 people in health care said they are definitely leaving health care after this. So my question, are you seeing the same attrition among your PA colleagues as the result of COVID? Or, do you see new opportunities arising in this new world?

My Occ med practice is ongoing, mostly unaffected by covid except for anything on my patients is considered 'elective.'  My eating disorders job is booming, telemedicine almost exclusively, and they're currently paying me 1099 wages to do nursing stuff like take EKGs because they can't hire RNs in this environment.

Perversely, I am as happy as I have been as a PA, even though Covid plus the Phillips recall forced the sleep center I worked at into bankruptcy.

[Mayamom]

I wanted out way before COVID.  Never mind now.......

[trazodone]

I have already left. Left my busy practice where I was quite autonomous with a very large patient panel. Now working full time in education but considering a part time clinical role. Combination of a toxic work place and COVID, but the thing that probably broke me down the most was the complete disappearance of the patient provider relationship. The pandemic has changed the general psyche of the public. They no longer trust us. They question everything (and almost never politely). On a daily basis, this became exhausting, debilitating, and made me full of despair. They'll have to deal with the consequences but yes, I see many more providers leaving their roles. One can only take so much disrespect (or at times, blatant threats) regarding vaccinations, general health, etc. This decision was brewing for a long time and the pandemic accelerated this. I couldn't be happier. My mental and physical health are so much better than they were prior. 

Edited January 21, 2022 by trazodone

[iconic]

As much as I like to complain; most of my PA peers are happy being PAs. I also think they are delusional thinking they got a good deal seeing a patient q15 mins

[sas5814]

I am in the last few years of my retirement planning. I have a hard date to pull the plug but its a few years down the road. The COVID thing actually turned out to be a blessing. The org I worked for, showing its usual planning skills, shut down all the UC centers instead of pivoting, and I got laid off and eventually separated. Because of that I found a job with the VA and, after 5 years of service, will combine those years with my military service and have a pension. That is a nice little add on to my retirement.

Now I just have to get from here to there without going mad.

[ventana]

I was close to pulling the plug (starting to look into self storage)

had property picked out, had offer in, had finances figured out

Started a new job and realized I still like medicine, I just disliked the agency and hospital system I was in.

[Febrifuge]

I was thriving in primary care, and then I was surviving. I moved back over to Occ Med 2 weeks ago, and it’s a breath of fresh air. I see far fewer patients in a day, so even though for some weird reason the proportion of non-vaccinated is a little higher, the raw number is less.

Plus, I have a clear goal, a mission that’s supported by the department, a cool partner who basically recruited me, and we have an office. With a window. The last place, much as I loved it in many ways, was below-ground, and had no natural light. Only now in hindsight is it clear how much that was freaking killin’ me.

Maslow’s Hierarchy, kids. You gotta take care of your own needs, sometimes. If you can find a way to do medicine a little more on your terms, or according to your style, go for it. If pushing for a better fit will keep you from quitting entirely, win-win.

 

[MediMike]

56 minutes ago, Febrifuge said:

I was thriving in primary care, and then I was surviving. I moved back over to Occ Med 2 weeks ago, and it’s a breath of fresh air. I see far fewer patients in a day, so even though for some weird reason the proportion of non-vaccinated is a little higher, the raw number is less.

Plus, I have a clear goal, a mission that’s supported by the department, a cool partner who basically recruited me, and we have an office. With a window. The last place, much as I loved it in many ways, was below-ground, and had no natural light. Only now in hindsight is it clear how much that was freaking killin’ me.

Maslow’s Hierarchy, kids. You gotta take care of your own needs, sometimes. If you can find a way to do medicine a little more on your terms, or according to your style, go for it. If pushing for a better fit will keep you from quitting entirely, win-win.

 

Windows. Huge.

[rev ronin]

9 hours ago, Febrifuge said:

for some weird reason the proportion of non-vaccinated is a little higher, the raw number is less.

Occ Med patients are more blue collar/less college educated than a general population, and I'm pretty sure that correlates to lower vaccine uptake.

[True Anomaly]

Admittedly, I’m dealing with my own crisis of “medical identity” for the past few months, which definitely began with the Delta surge this past summer- and has since been exponentially compounded by this most recent Omicron surge.  I have an amazing job with an extremely supportive supervising doc and colleagues who do respect me, but I’m struggling with if this is still what I want to do for the next several years.  You could consider me a mid-career PA at this point

If I were to do something non-medical, it would be real estate (purchasing properties and renting them out).  However, I’ve also really started to enjoy learning about nutrition.  I’ve always had an excellent fundamental knowledge of cooking in general (it’s my favorite hobby), but when I topped out at 201# this past summer (I’m 5’8”, was about 31% body fat), I had to make a change- but I never understood how to properly lose weight in a healthy way.  So I started teaching myself about nutrition- and then just applied what I’m learning and experiment on myself.  I’m down to 155#, and I now am about 12-13% body fat- and I understand this stuff well enough now that I won’t ever slide backwards unless I intentionally do so.  I’ve also spent a LARGE amount of time both learning about and doing proper resistance training.  Understanding how nutrition and fitness/strength training are intertwined is a absolute boon for me, both physically and mentally.  

So yeah….I’m having serious thoughts about getting out of being a PA

[SedRate]

On 1/21/2022 at 6:46 AM, trazodone said:

Combination of a toxic work place and COVID, but the thing that probably broke me down the most was the complete disappearance of the patient provider relationship. The pandemic has changed the general psyche of the public. They no longer trust us. They question everything (and almost never politely). On a daily basis, this became exhausting, debilitating, and made me full of despair. They'll have to deal with the consequences but yes, I see many more providers leaving their roles. One can only take so much disrespect (or at times, blatant threats) regarding vaccinations, general health, etc. This decision was brewing for a long time and the pandemic accelerated this. 

^This. I've been contemplating leaving the PA field for a few years now for the reasons above and others. Retrospectively, I was oblivious to my now-obvious burnout. My answer back then was to leave and try a couple new things, hoping I could salvage my career choice, but with Covid, it's obvious now that this was and is a system-wide problem in healthcare. I now need to decide if I should make due, continue to try to find my place as a PA, or officially exit.

[Cideous]

Left last year.  The million dollar name change recommendation gave me great hope for our future until PA leadership all over the country dismissed it outright.  A decision that still infuriates me .

The really hysterically tragic thing about our name change fiasco is the money, time and effort that will now go into "Associate".  When, if anyone reads the professional name change report, they clearly state that "Associate" will do nothing to advance our field as evidenced by docs, nurses and the public survey responses.

Stunning lack of courage on part of our profession.  Just cowardly.

[ventana]

We still need a visionary leader….. so sad  

[Ty2PA]

Hey you experienced PAs that were involved last year while the name change was being considered: do you know the AMA position on MCP? We all know practically every medical specialty has come out to condemn "associate", but I can't find information on whether AMA and specialty associations would have gotten behind something like MCP. That would be valuable to know.

[Cideous]

3 minutes ago, Ty2PA said:

Hey you experienced PAs that were involved last year while the name change was being considered: do you know the AMA position on MCP? We all know practically every medical specialty has come out to condemn "associate", but I can't find information on whether AMA and specialty associations would have gotten behind something like MCP. That would be valuable to know.

Do you think MD's supported DO's quest for parity?  How about NP's independence in 30+ states?  Who gives 10 shites what MD docs think?  NP's didn't and they are destroying us in the job market now.  Our profession has always had an "assistant" chip on our shoulder which has held us back.  We could change our name to MCP and go straight after full independence, what are NP's gonna say, no?  We out train them 2:1.

But we won't because our profession is full of cowards despite our training.

[iconic]

2 hours ago, ventana said:

We still need a visionary leader….. so sad  

Sadly some in the AAPA leadership seem to only be concerned about advancing their own careers 

[mgriffiths]

To answer the original question...my decision to look into other options really has nothing to do with the pandemic.  If anything the pandemic actually increased my fortitude in medicine and the good that we can do.  My issue is how my employer has responded to the pandemic and is treating employees...there are LOTS of careers where I could make $125k-$150k in a year.  Many of them work-from-home and have opportunities to move further up.  Is it actually greener on the other side?  Probably not...but at least it would be different.

I'm in no rush...but 100% exploring and in discussions with my wife about how hard we want to pursue a change.

[MediMike]

5 hours ago, Ty2PA said:

Hey you experienced PAs that were involved last year while the name change was being considered: do you know the AMA position on MCP? We all know practically every medical specialty has come out to condemn "associate", but I can't find information on whether AMA and specialty associations would have gotten behind something like MCP. That would be valuable to know.

The surveyors didn't look specifically at other organizations but MCP polled much higher among the physicians and general public than associate.

5 hours ago, Cideous said:

Do you think MD's supported DO's quest for parity?  How about NP's independence in 30+ states?  Who gives 10 shites what MD docs think?  NP's didn't and they are destroying us in the job market now.  Our profession has always had an "assistant" chip on our shoulder which has held us back.  We could change our name to MCP and go straight after full independence, what are NP's gonna say, no?  We out train them 2:1.

But we won't because our profession is full of cowards despite our training.

Dude. I was hoping once you got out of the field you would find some chill. As long as we are consistently tied to physicians in 48/50 states and are governed by the medical board we have to take these things into consideration.

If we had started out with our own board then maybe we could scream eff off at the physicians trying to hold us back but you have to play the game man. You know this. It's the long game and we got a late start.

And unless I read the prior post wrong nobody said that they gave a shit what NPs thought. With that being said, they have the lobbying power and clout to do some serious damage.

[Cideous]

14 hours ago, MediMike said:

 

Dude. I was hoping once you got out of the field you would find some chill. As long as we are consistently tied to physicians in 48/50 states and are governed by the medical board we have to take these things into consideration.

 

Oh I have found my chill.  That doesn't mean I don't still feel passionately about the profession I gave 26 years of my life to and most importantly to the NEW grads that are $120k in debt with ever darkening prospects for jobs.  It's not about my chill anymore, my career as a provider is over, but as a dad of two kids in their 20's I will never stop advocating for the next generation of providers coming out of PA schools.

[ventana]

On 1/22/2022 at 7:57 PM, Ty2PA said:

Hey you experienced PAs that were involved last year while the name change was being considered: do you know the AMA position on MCP? We all know practically every medical specialty has come out to condemn "associate", but I can't find information on whether AMA and specialty associations would have gotten behind something like MCP. That would be valuable to know.

UGH

Why would we care what anyone besides the profession cares?   Sorry that just doesn't make sense....

 

Do you really think any class of employee or society wants a different class/employee (whom they are financially profiting from) to advance themselves?  They are making money off of use  - why would they want us to advance out own profession???

[Reality Check 2]

For me, the shift came on slow at first and then picked up speed.

There were always naysayers and those who believed in medical myth but they were a super small faction of my tin foil crowd.

Then it started to spread - people on TV, people the public should be able to trust are flat out lying and spewing garbage and no one really calls them out. They are allowed to just keep spewing garbage, lies, myth, falsehood and fear mongering.

Never seen it like this before in my life or career.

Now droves of people starting degrading science and historical knowledge and actively and aggressively attacking me and medical practice as a tool of politics.

It came to a point where having acquaintances or even friends who have differing political views is nearly impossible and even somewhat dangerous. I watched families split apart over a damn virus and beliefs - completely unsubstantiated beliefs - cabals of pedophiles, viral creation for population control, vaccines with trackers in them, that the whole virus is a hoax despite hundreds of thousands of deaths. 

It boggles my mind that straight out LIES become truth to some. 

My faith in humanity has waned to a point of hopelessness. 

Is there any place left to live where common sense, science and reality are valued? Can I live and work there? 

Not sure if it exists.

This new world is not a lot of fun. Not sure if stuff will ever change or improve. 

So, day to day - keep working - make changes where I can and put up with what I can and try not to crack.

Sad 

[True Anomaly]

Thanks for that Reality Check (no pun intended).  I think that perfectly highlights - for me - why it isn’t about being a PA that is burning me out- it’s just healthcare in general.  I have zero doubts that if I was an MD also doing emergency medicine I’d feel exactly the same way

Seriously- y’all can have this name change argument stuff.  There are so many deeper issues that we all kinda felt before, but this pandemic has just exacerbated it

[SedRate]

12 hours ago, True Anomaly said:

Thanks for that Reality Check (no pun intended).  I think that perfectly highlights - for me - why it isn’t about being a PA that is burning me out- it’s just healthcare in general.  I have zero doubts that if I was an MD also doing emergency medicine I’d feel exactly the same way

Seriously- y’all can have this name change argument stuff.  There are so many deeper issues that we all kinda felt before, but this pandemic has just exacerbated it

Agreed.

[Colorado]

On 1/21/2022 at 4:57 PM, ventana said:

I was close to pulling the plug (starting to look into self storage)

had property picked out, had offer in, had finances figured out

Started a new job and realized I still like medicine, I just disliked the agency and hospital system I was in.

Did you end up getting the self storage property? Sounds like we have similar side hustles.