My dreams drowning

[johnguillen68]

Here's my story: I'm 53yrs old, hispanic, lots of healthcare experiences with a low GPA (2.53). I've sacrificed so much for me to stop with a Bachelor's degree and continue at the same title at my job. I've built up so much student loans for me to stop where I'm at. I've been working in the medical field (emergency department and Ambulance) for over 15yrs. I've worked and went to school part time to try to reach the level of PA. I know now that while trying just to pass the class and move on to the next semester has hurt my GPA. At this age I just wanted to finish school and have some kind of hopes of getting into PA school. I see now that out of 17 schools that I have applied 6 already turned me down because of GPA. I have a feeling that schools look at GPA and wean out the low ones. but they don't take into account all my years of being in the medical field but rather put their hopes on students who don't even know how to take a blood pressure on a patient. I really hope that my background and experiences that they can see that I am worth taking that chance on becoming a really good PA student and encouraging those who feel like failing or even being a mentor when times get rough. I love helping people and really believe that I can be good in this field if given the chance.

What are my chances of getting in PA school or are my dreams will stay dreams?

[UGoLong]

Your pain comes through in your post. I think you've done a good job understanding the issue; the schools I know of do have a GPA hurdle you have to get over to be considered, usually 3.0 from what I've seen. Their rationale may be that PA school is hard and the best way they have of judging your ability to get through the coursework is to see how you've done in the past. Once you clear that hurdle, your drive, perseverance, and medical experience can come to bear on their admission decision.

There is a lot that your few hundred words can't tell me, like when got your bachelors, if some of the lower grades are recent or in the distant past, if your low grades also extend to your science classes, and how many credits are involved. Theoretically, you could take more classes (if you can afford them; they can be in community college) and try to pull up your averages (overall average and science average).  To do that for either of those categories (assuming they're both 2.53 now), you would need 47% more A credits to pull up your grade.

Another option is to look at schools that weight your last 60 credits as being more important than your total averages. This is sometimes the case with older students who -- like a lot of people -- took time to find themselves. I know these programs exist but I don't know which schools do that. You may be able to search this forum and find them.

In any event, from one older ex-EMT and paramedic to another, my best wishes on whatever you decide to do.

 

Edited October 12, 2021 by UGoLong

[johnguillen68]

8 hours ago, UGoLong said:

Your pain comes through in your post. I think you've done a good job understanding the issue; the schools I know of do have a GPA hurdle you have to get over to be considered, usually 3.0 from what I've seen. Their rationale may be that PA school is hard and the best way they have of judging your ability to get through the coursework is to see how you've done in the past. Once you clear that hurdle, your drive, perseverance, and medical experience can come to bear on their admission decision.

There is a lot that your few hundred words can't tell me, like when got your bachelors, if some of the lower grades are recent or in the distant past, if your low grades also extend to your science classes, and how many credits are involved. Theoretically, you could take more classes (if you can afford them; they can be in community college) and try to pull up your averages (overall average and science average).  To do that for either of those categories (assuming they're both 2.53 now), you would need 47% more A credits to pull up your grade.

Another option is to look at schools that weight your last 60 credits as being more important than your total averages. This is sometimes the case with older students who -- like a lot of people -- took time to find themselves. I know these programs exist but I don't know which schools do that. You may be able to search this forum and find them.

In any event, from one older ex-EMT and paramedic to another, my best wishes on whatever you decide to do.

 

Thank you so much for your response and advise. I got my Bachelor's in May 2021 in Biology. They say that if my grade is a "C" and if I retake the class to get an "A" it would average to a "B". I totally understand that schools want to see if you can handle the case load by having a high GPA. I wish that they can see that regardless of my GPA majority of the schools look for a "C" or better in all classes, which I have accomplished" but I think its those other classes that brought my GPA down that was not a pre-req. I'm looking into trying to take some classes over but I would like to know if it's really worth it. I'm 53yrs old and time is running out on me and definitely motivation because I haven't reached that level of accomplishment. As a paramedic in the ER for over 15yrs I'm getting burnt out with the minor tasks and constant tech abuse. I will try to find schools that look for those last 60 credits but I will keep plugging away. I will try to even score higher on my GRE and maybe that will open their eyes. Thank you again.

[UGoLong]

 I doubt that a higher GRE would help get past a hard 3.0 cut-off and you really don't have to repeat all of your Cs. You might consider taking some more advanced science classes and doing really well. Either way, it has the same effect on your GPA and taking something new might be more fun than retaking a class.

I would suggest that you take a look at your GPA as your science GPA and your overall GPA (so you get two numbers) and see where you stand in each. Then do the same just for the last 60 credits. Then you can get a better idea of where you stand and what it would take to improve things.

At the time it might seem like it, but 53 really isn't that old. I took my first prereq at 51, started PA school at 58, graduated at 60, and I'm still working (part-time) at 75. The time will go by no matter what you do so I would recommend doing whatever it is that you would like to do. Looking back, I remember the journey -- hard as it was at times -- more than the destination. And, if you don't like where you're working now, you could look around for a change there too.

Good luck!

[johnguillen68]

Thank you once again. I will work on getting some advance courses and hopefully improve my GPA a bit. I will also get your book as to I'm always the outlier on campus.

 

[UGoLong]

1 hour ago, johnguillen68 said:

Thank you once again. I will work on getting some advance courses and hopefully improve my GPA a bit. I will also get your book as to I'm always the outlier on campus.

 

It's just one guy's journey but I hope it helps!

[ohiovolffemtp]

Definitely recommend the community college route for taking/re-taking the science prereqs: less costly, smaller class size, in person instruction by faculty vs teaching assistants.  That's what I did.  Besides retaking classes in which you got below a B, look at other potentially useful classes: genetics, microbiology, cell biology, pathophysiology, nutrition.

I don't remember when I went back for my pre-reqs but I started PA school at 53 and got my license at 55.  You are NOT too old.

[johnguillen68]

Thank you ohiovolffemtp, I took those classes except cell biology. Today was driving home from work this morning and just started to think a lot about where I'm heading as far as career. I was a bit sad but thinking 1) I don't have kids, 2) Never married and 3) I'm still single. So was even thinking just go for MD but I don't know if I can devote that kind of time at my age. What do you guys think? I really want to be a PA but if I don't have anything in my life why not go for MD. I just don't know, I'm just in a rut right now.

I applied to at least 17 schools for PA and got turned down by 6 so far. I spent lots of money for applications. I will be taking my GRE in November and hope to score a 300 and above. I hate when depression kicks in and I sit an mope around and doubting, I just need something positive to happen in my life.

[UGoLong]

58 minutes ago, johnguillen68 said:

Thank you ohiovolffemtp, I took those classes except cell biology. Today was driving home from work this morning and just started to think a lot about where I'm heading as far as career. I was a bit sad but thinking 1) I don't have kids, 2) Never married and 3) I'm still single. So was even thinking just go for MD but I don't know if I can devote that kind of time at my age. What do you guys think? I really want to be a PA but if I don't have anything in my life why not go for MD. I just don't know, I'm just in a rut right now.

I applied to at least 17 schools for PA and got turned down by 6 so far. I spent lots of money for applications. I will be taking my GRE in November and hope to score a 300 and above. I hate when depression kicks in and I sit an mope around and doubting, I just need something positive to happen in my life.

Reading between the lines (or maybe overreading, in case I'm way off base) but perhaps you should consider some counselling to help you sort things out. Add about a decade to your age and that's about when you would become a doc. It's probably been done but it's an even bigger sacrifice and would probably preclude making some other life changes for a while. Would you want your tombstone to read "He never really had a personal life but he became a physician at age 63"?

My guess is that you're one of the good guys and it's time to make some calculated changes. Perhaps you are somewhere now where you are underappreciated. Maybe it's also time to make some time for a social life and see what happens. Just being your age is a plus when it comes to dealing with patients. You talked a lot about your life this last post and perhaps you need to see if you can spice that up while you're applying to school, or maybe just find a kid who needs a mentor.

One of my life lessons has been that dissatisfaction has actually been a good thing: it's often the only signal I had that I was way off-course. Then it's time to explore and take a few steps down a new path if only to see where it might lead.

Best wishes.

[johnguillen68]

Thank you so much. Sometimes it's hard to see the path at this age because of reflection of my past. I have friends who moved on with life being successful in career and personal life. I feel I'm way behind the 8 ball. Living alone and the only friend I have here is my nephew who I on occasion help out with his math homework. I need to get out and jog and be more motivated. Working night shifts in the ER has been stressful. They do appreciate what I do but being a tech is definitely not my end of the road career for me. I want more out of that and help out much more than my current scope of practice. I'm gonna keep plugging away and hopefully out of those schools I've sent apps to maybe one will take me in.

[Jennstav]

Thank you to UGoLong and John and Ohio for having this chat here.  Great advice and much needed!  You advice to, "enjoy the journey" shook my world.  There are huge advantages to being an older applicant.  But one drawback is the feeling that the time is running out, maybe more for us than for our younger colleagues!  I am 51.  I have a PhD in educational psychology and I am not having any luck with interviews this cycle!  (I should have waited another year to get more hours under my belt and more prereqs completed.  I was at the minimum for many programs.) I have been getting down in the mouth since I have applied and not heard anything.  The typical, "throw in the towel, what's it all for....." sob story. And you reminded me that sometimes patience and perseverance are required, maybe in greater doses than I though necessary at first.  I am getting PCE as a phlebotomist and this morning I just let myself enjoy my job. I enjoyed my patients and tried to connect with them and take good care of them.  I didn't see the day as another way to add hours to my stockpile.  I tried to remember why I am doing this in the first place and to put all that energy into what is in FRONT of me and not what I am reaching for.  I may not get in this cycle. I may be a year older than I wanted to be when's all is said and done.  But you helped me change how I see this next year. I will find joy in it.  I will cultivate patience and determination. I will ENJOY my studies instead of reading through to get to the next class.  I will see what rejection has to teach me and how it can make me better.  Really needed this today so thank you all for sharing with us here.  I will pay it forward!

[UGoLong]

I honestly have clothes that are at least 51!

You've got 7 more years to be as old as I was when I started PA school. I admire your attitude today; I hope it takes you far.

[ohiovolffemtp]

For the 2nd or 3rd career PA applicants:  I recommend that you think about and possibly get some advice about the unspoken questions a PA school admission committee would have about you vs the standard 22-25 year old applicant (often unspoken):

• Can you as an adult learner do all the learning/memorization needed for PA school as fast/well as a younger prospective student?  So, good enough GPA, especially science GPA is important.
• Can you be molded as easily as a younger student?  Listen closely to the questions you get in an interview to see if they're trying to find out if you're "set in your ways".
• Can you show your maturity in better answers to questions like "why do you want to be a PA?", "why PA vs NP/MD/DO?", "how would/have you handle(d) X difficult situation?"  The unstated question may very well be some version of "why at your age do you want to do this?"
• Do you have life obligations, e.g. family, that would make it difficult for you to complete school: the hours needed for studying during the didactic phase, the travel to distant clinical sites (if you have to live away from home for a month), etc?

[Jennstav]

I copied this message and printed it.  Very much appreciate the insight.  Do you have experience with these types of interviewing questions?  How did you fare?

[ohiovolffemtp]

The interview at the PA school I attended had multiple pieces.  I don't recall all, but one piece was an interview with 2 faculty members.  I don't recall much as it was a long while ago, but I do recall one professor being impressed with some work I had done with the state legislature and division of EMS.  Another piece was a video taped role play session with 2 other applicants where we had 20-30 minutes to answer the question: if only 1 of you 3 is to be admitted, who should it be.  One of the other applicants, a mid 20's female said something like "I'm going to ask the obvious question about your age" (I was 52-53 at the time).  I replied with the Ronald Reagan quote about age:

and since I figured that my 2 co-interviewees wouldn't be familiar with that, I also mentioned that at the time I was regularly working 48 hour shifts as a firefighter/paramedic.  Interestingly enough, all 3 of us were accepted, graduated, and have been working ever since.

[johnguillen68]

I'm hoping to take the GRE next month and South College and NOVA are waiting for my test results. I'm hoping to score a 300 or better. As I sit here and just go through some math I ask myself how long before I throw in the towel? Will schools be willing to invest in me and give me an opportunity or will they leave all the acceptance to the youngsters? I am not one of those "you can't teach an old dog new tricks" kind of guy. I am willing to learn and absorb. I hope that I am given that opportunity for them to see me and see that I am willing to learn.

[Jennstav]

Ohio, you are a rockstar for sharing that with us!  Thank you very much and thanks for the votes of confidence.  Again, I promise to pay it forward.  John, you've got to believe in yourself.  The GRE is brutal, but prepare for it and do your best.  It is becoming an antiquated measuring stick, but some schools still want it.  Best of luck.