mgriffiths Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 https://nypost.com/2021/08/30/ohio-judge-orders-covid-patient-be-treated-with-ivermectin/ Seriously! For those who don't want to click the link: An Ohio judge on Monday ordered a hospital to treat at COVID-19 patient with ivermectin — an unproven virus treatment and livestock dewormer — going against CDC and FDA recommendations. Jeffrey Smith, 51, contracted the coronavirus in early July and has been in the intensive care unit on a ventilator at West Chester Hospital in Cincinnati for weeks, according to the Ohio Capital Journal. His wife, Julie Smith, filed a lawsuit against the hospital on Aug. 20 for demanding an emergency order for the use of the animal medication in a Butler County court in a last ditch effort to keep her husband alive as he suffers “on death’s doorstep.” On Aug. 23, Butler County Judge Gregory Howard ordered that Dr. Fred Wagshul’s prescription of 30 milligrams of ivermectin to be daily for three weeks be filled, as requested by his wife and his legal guardian. Ivermectin is approved for both humans and animals, but animal drugs are concentrated at levels that can be highly toxic for humans. The FDA has no data proving ivermectin’s use as a COVID treatment, and warned Americans they are not livestock amid a rise in poison-control calls from people suffering side effects. Smith was admitted to the hospital on July 15, where he was moved to the ICU and treated with the hospital’s COVID-19 protocol, which included plasma, steroids and doses of Remdesivir, an antiviral medication, according to court documents. On July 27, “after a period of relative stability, Jeffrey’s condition began to decline,” the lawsuit says, and Jeffrey became unstable as his oxygen levels dropped. His condition “continued to decline” and he was sedated, intubated and placed on a ventilator on Aug. 1. Several serious subsequent infections left Smith with a roughly 30 percent chance of survival by Aug. 20, when he remained on the ventilator in a medically induced coma. “At his point, the Defendant [hospital] has exhausted its course of treatment and COVID-19 protocol in treating Jeffrey, which is unacceptable to Ms. Smith,” the lawsuit states. “Jeffrey has been on a ventilator for 19 days,” the complaint continues, “He is on death’s doorstep; there is no further COVID-19 treatment protocol for the Defendant to offer to Jeffrey; Ms. Smith does not want to see her husband die, and she is doing everything she can to give him a chance.” The lawsuit did not mention whether Jeffrey Smith had been vaccinated or not, however of the 21,000 COVID-19 hospitalizations since Jan. 1, only 500 patients have been vaccinated, The Capital Journal reported. The Smiths have been married for 24 years and have three children, according to documents. Jeffrey is an engineer with Verizon. Julie Smith took it upon herself to get in touch with Dr. Wagshul, a leading proponent of ivermectin from Dayton and founder of Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance, who wrote the prescription for the drug. However the hospital refused to administer it to her husband. Wagshul told the Ohio Capital Journal that there was “irrefutable” evidence supporting the efficacy of ivermectin against COVID-19, and alleged a “conspiracy” to block its use by the CDC and FDA to continue its authorization of the available coronavirus vaccines “If we were a country looking at another country allowing those (COVID-19) deaths daily … we would have been screaming, ‘Genocide!’ ” he told the paper. Dr. Leanne Chrisman-Khawam, a physician and professor at the Ohio University Heritage College of Osteopathic Medicine, called the FLCCCA “snake oil salesmen,” according to the Capital Journal. She cited several problems in the group’s published research. “Based on evidence-based medicine and my read on this large number of small studies, I would find this very suspect, even the positive outcomes,” she told the Ohio Capital Journal. An update on Smith’s new treatment has not been revealed by the hospital or Wagshul due to privacy laws, the paper reported. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAAdmission Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 The Judicial branch of our government has nearly unchecked authority to do pretty much anything. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted August 31, 2021 Moderator Share Posted August 31, 2021 Wow folks Lets read the article..... The Judge did NOT practice medicine. The judge forced the pharmacy/hospital to fill the prescription that a physician had written. In fact this is the exact example of a Judge following what a fully licensed physician had ordered. This is not the Judge practicing medicine Now the hospital/pharmacy can sue to NOT fill the script and they can fight over the legality of it. But this is a clear case where the pharmacy should fill it - how many times have we all been questioned by a pharmacist on our scripts? Just fill the script please read this sentence carefully On Aug. 23, Butler County Judge Gregory Howard ordered that Dr. Fred Wagshul’s prescription of 30 milligrams of ivermectin to be daily for three weeks be filled, as requested by his wife and his legal guardian. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgriffiths Posted August 31, 2021 Author Share Posted August 31, 2021 31 minutes ago, ventana said: The Judge did NOT practice medicine. The judge forced the pharmacy/hospital to fill the prescription that a physician had written. In fact this is the exact example of a Judge following what a fully licensed physician had ordered. This is not the Judge practicing medicine Except, as the article states, the physician has no prior relationship with the patient and is not part of the patient's care within the hospital. The physician does NOT have privileges at the hospital. Therefore, for the judge to REQUIRE the hospital to follow an order of an outside physician is practicing medicine because it is against the policies and protocols of the hospital. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted August 31, 2021 Moderator Share Posted August 31, 2021 17 minutes ago, mgriffiths said: Except, as the article states, the physician has no prior relationship with the patient and is not part of the patient's care within the hospital. The physician does NOT have privileges at the hospital. Therefore, for the judge to REQUIRE the hospital to follow an order of an outside physician is practicing medicine because it is against the policies and protocols of the hospital. that is an issue with the physician and the medical board the patient has a valid script and the judge is merely following that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgriffiths Posted August 31, 2021 Author Share Posted August 31, 2021 1 hour ago, ventana said: the patient has a valid script and the judge is merely following that But it's not a valid prescription for the inpatient hospital pharmacy because the prescription cannot be placed within the hospital's system because the physician does not have privileges at the hospital. If the patient wants to go fill the prescription at a local pharmacy and take it at home...that's their choice. But, even when I worked FM, I couldn't prescribe medications to my patients when they were inpatient at the hospital because I didn't have privileges. 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MediMike Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 1 hour ago, ventana said: that is an issue with the physician and the medical board the patient has a valid script and the judge is merely following that I'm assuming you haven't worked inpatient medicine before? Without privileges you cannot practice medicine within that hospital. You can't come and write orders on my admitted patient. Unless you do in your neck of the woods? Are you able to follow your patients and write orders that conflict with the hospitalist or intensivist? (Or nephron/cards etc?) This is completely unacceptable. Unless this FLCCC idiot is going to accept the patient to their hospital (oh wait..."Dr. Wagshul’s patients are rarely admitted to hospitals or need emergency treatment for breathing problems." Maybe he doesn't have admitting privileges anywhere? Maybe he doesn't NEED them?!) Happily you can go have your interstitial cystitis treated by this pulmonologist Sets a terrible standard, hospital clearly didn't take it seriously as they didn't even mount a defense, here's hoping they appeal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted August 31, 2021 Moderator Share Posted August 31, 2021 okay I stand corrected (truth be told I read the first 1/2 the post and for some reason had thought I read the whole thing I just went back and re-read the OP and yup I am 100% wrong. Yup this judge is wrong, wrong wrong.... we are returning to your regular programing while I pull my foot and 1/2 of leg out of my mouth as I clearly jammed it way in there..... 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MediMike Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 1 hour ago, ventana said: okay I stand corrected (truth be told I read the first 1/2 the post and for some reason had thought I read the whole thing I just went back and re-read the OP and yup I am 100% wrong. Yup this judge is wrong, wrong wrong.... we are returning to your regular programing while I pull my foot and 1/2 of leg out of my mouth as I clearly jammed it way in there..... Dude I have to check myself on a regular basis or I'd be @#!&$ sneakers every morning 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cinntsp Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 Wellpz, he should have gotten vaccinated. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MediMike Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 15 minutes ago, cinntsp said: Wellpz, he should have gotten vaccinated. Yeah there was an article where the lawyer said that his wife "was trying to do everything she could to save his life" and I'm sure you can imagine the look on my face... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohiovolffemtp Posted September 1, 2021 Share Posted September 1, 2021 This is not far from where I live. It's not clear from the news accounts, but if you look at the documents on the clerk of courts web site, this is a preliminary injunction, with a hearing scheduled for Sept. 2 on that injunction. In other words, this is far from a final disposition in the Ohio court system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reality Check 2 Posted September 1, 2021 Share Posted September 1, 2021 The judge is WRONG and promoting unethical, untested and likely dangerous interventions as a “last ditch” to save a guy who is likely already gone brain function wise with end organ failure. Frankly a waste of a ventilator in my outside voice opinion. The chances of returning to a functional life are slim and none. The world is a tough place of late - hard lessons learned and not learned. Hoping for my booster this coming month…. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newton9686 Posted September 1, 2021 Share Posted September 1, 2021 Yeah it’s a truly sad situation we are living in and that are ICU workers are dealing with. Young Patients are literally dying from preventable disease because they don’t trust the healthcare system and then yelling and getting the judiciary system involved for a treatment that has essentially proven not to work. Just take your vaccine Folks, whatever extremely small chance of ADEs it is worth it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas5814 Posted September 1, 2021 Share Posted September 1, 2021 In the last week 2 of my youngest son's friends in their 30s died of COVID. Out here in the country we have been less impacted than in the big city. If the judge wants to make medical decisions I think the state medical board in his state should get to review his legal decisions. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iconic Posted September 1, 2021 Share Posted September 1, 2021 Everyone (from Insurance companies to lawyers) practice medicine. We are just their puppets with no real say in anything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgriffiths Posted September 7, 2021 Author Share Posted September 7, 2021 (edited) So there is some good news on this finally: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/judge-says-ohio-hospital-cannot-be-forced-use-ivermectin-treat-n1278576 Glad the guy is doing better...but at the same time this is just going to be fuel "proving" ivermectin works. By Tim Stelloh A judge ruled Monday that an Ohio hospital cannot be forced to give a patient ivermectin for Covid-19, reversing an earlier decision that ordered it to administer a parasite medication that has not been approved to treat the disease. In an 11-page decision, Hamilton County Common Pleas Judge Michael Oster Jr. wrote that there “was no doubt that the medical and scientific communities do not support the use of ivermectin as a treatment for Covid-19.” Based on the current evidence, Oster wrote, the drug — which is primarily used to deworm horses but has been promoted by some doctors, some Republicans and the popular podcast host Joe Rogan to combat the coronavirus — “is not an effective treatment for Covid-19.” Oster cited advisories from the Food and Drug Administration, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and medical associations that have warned against using the medication for Covid-19. Oster also cited problems with research into using ivermectin to treat the disease, including the withdrawal of a non-peer-reviewed study from a website that posts academic pre-prints. Julie Smith, the wife of the patient, Jeffrey Smith, had sued the hospital to force doctors to administer the medication. “While this court is sympathetic to the plaintiff and understands the idea of wanting to do anything to help her loved one, public policy should not and does not support allowing physicians to try ‘any’ type of treatment on human beings,” he wrote. Jeffrey Smith, 51, tested positive for the virus on July 9 and was admitted to West Chester Hospital nearly a week later, according to court documents. He was intubated on Aug. 1, and by Aug. 19 his chances of survival had dipped below 30 percent. Julie Smith demanded that the hospital administer ivermectin, but doctors refused. The medication had been prescribed by Dr. Fred Wagshul, a pulmonologist unaffiliated with West Chester who advocates for the use of ivermectin for Covid-19 and once told the Ohio Capital Journal that not using it was like “genocide.” A different judge issued a temporary injunction Aug. 23, ordering doctors to begin administering the medication for two weeks. Oster, who held two days of hearings last week, said Wagshul could not confirm in court whether the medication’s continued use would benefit Smith. Wagshul said Smith’s condition “seems to” have improved, Oster added. In a statement, an attorney for Jeffrey Smith, Jonathan Davidson, said he was disappointed by Oster’s ruling. “While he has likely received his last dose at UC West Chester hospital, we can only hope his condition continues to trend positively,” Davidson said, adding that his client’s condition had stabilized and is improving. UC Health, which operates West Chester Hospital, did not immediately respond to a request for comment. A spokeswoman told The Cincinnati Enquirer that the decision was “positive.” “We implore all members of the community to do what we know works: wear a mask, become fully vaccinated and use social distancing whenever possible,” Martin told the newspaper. “At UC Health, we respect the expertise of our clinicians and appreciate the scientific rigor used to develop treatments, medications and other therapies. “We do not believe that hospitals or clinicians should be ordered to administer medications and/or therapies, especially unproven medications and/or therapies, against medical advice.” Edited September 7, 2021 by mgriffiths forgot to include the copied/pasted article 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MediMike Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 Did anyone read the actual suit filed? Quite possibly the worst written piece of literature I've ever seen. Talked about the patient "ripping the breathing tube from his esophagus" or some such. How that alone didn't get it thrown out I don't get. Maybe lawyering ain't that hard after all... I'd also love to know what this guy's thoughts were on how ivermectin is going to affect aspiration pneumonitis/pneumonia on top of probable fibrotic dz at this point in the patient's course. Glad it got overturned! Transfer that guy to a hospital where Washgul has privileges... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgriffiths Posted September 7, 2021 Author Share Posted September 7, 2021 2 hours ago, MediMike said: Transfer that guy to a hospital where Washgul has privileges... I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Washgul didn't have privileges anywhere... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasPA28 Posted September 8, 2021 Share Posted September 8, 2021 8 hours ago, mgriffiths said: I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Washgul didn't have privileges anywhere... None of these quacks have hospital privileges because they are quacks and they can't pass credentialing criteria or medical staff board review. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgriffiths Posted September 8, 2021 Author Share Posted September 8, 2021 15 hours ago, TexasPA28 said: None of these quacks have hospital privileges because they are quacks and they can't pass credentialing criteria or medical staff board review. exactly my point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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