New Grad job hunt in the age of COVID-19

[ElleRams]

Hello All,

Thank you, in advance, for your time in reading this and for your responses.

I am a Dec 2020 graduate who has so far found a brick wall in place of an open job market. To be fair, I had some moving (Triad area NC) and some husband related delays that started me off late in job hunting, but now that I am getting into late summer, my desperation is starting to pique. I have dealt with the struggle of the application process in the past, so it is not a total shock that I have to submit 100 applications for 1 potential email back. However, I did expect a little more opportunity that I am currently seeing. I do not know how much of my struggle is the normal struggle of a new grad vs the COVID-19 market. I have applied and applied, and networked, and applied. I am continuing to edit my CV with a professional career coach. I have become familiar with all the big health organizations in the area. I have emailed and cold-called smaller groups. I have worked on improving my Link-in and have started volunteering. I have done everything I can think of and am constantly checking back online to watch my applications (sometimes swiftly and sometimes slowly) move from "submitted" to "reviewed" to "not selected". I feel like I cannot even get one foot in the door. The most frustrating part is to see the same job opportunities continue to be advertised even as I am "not selected", which says to me "we would rather keep it open than take a chance on you". (Aside- sorry for the pessimism, but it is very much my current state of emotion). For the life of me, I am unable to move past the conundrum of needing a job to get experience to get a job.

My question is posed to both fellow new graduates and seasoned PA's. How are you dealing with/ would you deal with the current job market coming in as a new practitioner? How do you get in front of a live person to even get the chance to pitch yourself? 

 

[kettle]

Apply for a residency, I finish residency in December and it's definitely opened doors. The places that understand what a residency is will find you a job. I had an interview at a place that was essentially going to create a position for me. 

[EMEDPA]

35 minutes ago, kettle said:

Apply for a residency, I finish residency in December and it's definitely opened doors. The places that understand what a residency is will find you a job. I had an interview at a place that was essentially going to create a position for me. 

Yes. This. 100%

[rev ronin]

7 hours ago, EMEDPA said:

Yes. This. 100%

Except the problem is that there aren't as many residencies as PAs who might benefit from them.  If your CV hasn't been attractive to employers, what about it makes you (OP) think that you're going to look attractive to a residency director?

[Cideous]

12 hours ago, ElleRams said:

 However, I did expect a little more opportunity that I am currently seeing. I do not know how much of my struggle is the normal struggle of a new grad vs the COVID-19 market. I have applied and applied, and networked, and applied. I am continuing to edit my CV with a professional career coach.

 

Yep, this profession is just fine Boomers.  Keep that name and keep on keeping on.....while the next generation burns.

Well done.

[EMEDPA]

2 hours ago, rev ronin said:

Except the problem is that there aren't as many residencies as PAs who might benefit from them.  If your CV hasn't been attractive to employers, what about it makes you (OP) think that you're going to look attractive to a residency director?

surprisingly few students apply for residency. Most PA programs discourage them because they want folks to go into primary care. Many of my students have never even heard of PA residencies. The well known residencies get a bunch of applications, but many lesser known quality programs don't even fill every year. 

My last 4 EM students have all secured EM residencies for next year

[cabinsnow]

55 minutes ago, EMEDPA said:

surprisingly few students apply for residency. Most PA programs discourage them because they want folks to go into primary care. Many of my students have never even heard of PA residencies. The well known residencies get a bunch of applications, but many lesser known quality programs don't even fill every year. 

My last 4 EM students have all secured EM residencies for next year

I don't mean to sound discouraging of fellowships/residencies/insert-none-threatening-name-here or open another ad nauseam discussion, but I graduated this year and most of my classmates knew of their existence. My program director also did not discourage them if you had no experience prior to PA school in that field. That said, most of my classmates (myself included) all brought up similar concerns - how can I afford to pay my loans at the rate offered by these? As the cost of PA tuition rises this does not become a feasible option for many students.

I see great value in a fellowship and if my situation were different I would have been thrilled to do one, just know that this is the perspective of many students. I had a classmate get accepted to a respectable EM fellowship and he had to turn it down because he did the math and in the area where it was located he couldn't support himself throughout it. 

It's great that these are options, but we need to be cognizant before we start offering the same response to anyone struggling to secure a position as a new graduate.

Just my two cents.

 

Edited July 28, 2021 by cabinsnow

[ohiovolffemtp]

The job market for PA's has always been a 2 tier market:  some jobs for new grads, way more for "experienced" PA's, often with ~5 years in a field.  At the height of COVID, there were almost no jobs and many experienced PA's were furloughed or even laid off with no jobs available.  In the past 2-3 months that has begun to change, but pretty much only for the experienced PA's as most employers are trying to cherry pick from the available experienced PA's.

(A caveat - I mostly know the EM market, especially in the midwest)

So, I doubt that this is completely about you.  It may be even worse in your area.  I'd recommend continuing the personal networking, and even ask places you visit if they know anyone who is hiring.

[ANESMCR]

Covid has conveniently become the new excuse for a s***hole PA market. It was like this before covid. Keep trying, one will come to you. Took me and most of my classmates 6-7 months so you’re right on track. PM me your cover letter and CV and I’ll look it over.

Also, NC is one of the worst places to find a PA gig within the last 3 years.

Edited July 28, 2021 by ANESMCR

[iconic]

Try Psych. Lots of psych jobs for new grads in NC 

[Komorebi]

Are PA residency programs lower paying? My NP residency paid nearly $100K annually with federal benefits and vacation at the VA. I am pretty sure the PA residents are on the same pay scale.

[cabinsnow]

1 hour ago, Komorebi said:

Are PA residency programs lower paying? My NP residency paid nearly $100K annually with federal benefits and vacation at the VA. I am pretty sure the PA residents are on the same pay scale.

There are fellowships in NYC paying 70K annually. Think about that from the perspective of a student with 100K+ in student loans living in one of the most expensive cities in the country. I knew of someone who took out more loans to go to an EM fellowship. I mean, bless him/her but at point it's diminishing returns...

I think if you standardize tuition and the length of PA education fellowships become worthwhile and a game changer for our profession but until then, I'm a little baffled hearing people in the profession who went to school 20+ years ago advocating students to make more sacrifices. 

[jiml8256]

Job market is atrocious. It's harder right now then when I was a new grad. I have ~2.5 years of experience now, and I've only been flown out to interview once out of dozens upon dozens of applications I've submitted. And even then I was more than qualified (position was sleep med, and I rotated in that in PA school) and didn't get the position. Before COVID, and as a new grad I was invited/flown out to interview far more regularly than now. It appears as if all healthcare institutions are putting the bare minimum effort into recruiting. Not to mention the people behind HR are a roadblock and a half...

So this isn't just something that you're facing. Even us with some experience under our belts have gotten hit as well. Start drafting cover letters for various specialties that are easy to submit on Indeed. Wish I could help more, but you're not alone in the struggle.

[kettle]

3 hours ago, Komorebi said:

Are PA residency programs lower paying? My NP residency paid nearly $100K annually with federal benefits and vacation at the VA. I am pretty sure the PA residents are on the same pay scale.

Mine is 57K a year

[Komorebi]

54 minutes ago, kettle said:

Mine is 57K a year

Wow. Is it a VA residency? Mine was around 97K, 5 days a week (M to F 8AM to 4PM) for one year. Not sure I could have done it for 57K.

[iconic]

VA PA residencies pay well as well 

[deltawave]

I have a job. But I am always on the hunt for something just to see what’s out there. Today I had an interview and was offered $12 less an hour than I make now in the same area of practice. Lol. What the heck?! When I told the interviewer we need not waste anymore time they offered a whole $0.50 more/hr. Haha. Face palm. 
 

The market is tough. I am a bit disheartened at the fact that while we do make pretty good sums, as the cost of everything else goes up we find our salary meeting low-mid middle class instead of upper middle class and beyond. Wages certainly aren’t going up despite corporations making insane profits. 

[Cideous]

36 minutes ago, deltawave said:

I have a job. But I am always on the hunt for something just to see what’s out there. Today I had an interview and was offered $12 less an hour than I make now in the same area of practice. Lol. What the heck?! When I told the interviewer we need not waste anymore time they offered a whole $0.50 more/hr. Haha. Face palm. 
 

The market is tough. I am a bit disheartened at the fact that while we do make pretty good sums, as the cost of everything else goes up we find our salary meeting low-mid middle class instead of upper middle class and beyond. Wages certainly aren’t going up despite corporations making insane profits. 

The market is not just tough...it's changed.  NP's are decimating us.  Why PA's in leadership can not see it is infuriating. Just about the time they are replaced by an NP, they will retire.  Good on them while the rest of the profession burns...

[kettle]

10 hours ago, Komorebi said:

Wow. Is it a VA residency? Mine was around 97K, 5 days a week (M to F 8AM to 4PM) for one year. Not sure I could have done it for 57K.

Nope, I would say I average about 50 hours a week of work. When I was in the ICU I was working roughly 80 hours a week 

[kettle]

On 7/28/2021 at 12:52 AM, cabinsnow said:

I don't mean to sound discouraging of fellowships/residencies/insert-none-threatening-name-here or open another ad nauseam discussion, but I graduated this year and most of my classmates knew of their existence. My program director also did not discourage them if you had no experience prior to PA school in that field. That said, most of my classmates (myself included) all brought up similar concerns - how can I afford to pay my loans at the rate offered by these? As the cost of PA tuition rises this does not become a feasible option for many students.

I see great value in a fellowship and if my situation were different I would have been thrilled to do one, just know that this is the perspective of many students. I had a classmate get accepted to a respectable EM fellowship and he had to turn it down because he did the math and in the area where it was located he couldn't support himself throughout it. 

It's great that these are options, but we need to be cognizant before we start offering the same response to anyone struggling to secure a position as a new graduate.

Just my two cents.

 

You can defer loans while in residency. You can also pay on them or pay on interest occurring on them during that time. 

There are also incredibly cheep PA programs out there, public institutions in less than desirable areas. Tuition for my school for the whole program was 37k for residents 58k for non residents. I did state undergraduate and worked full time doing that and paid for it up front.

Residency pay shouldn't be a deterrent. My classmates came out average income of 110k a year. Post residency I'll likely clear 50k more than that without over time in a rural area.

It boils down to the ability to take the hit initially for a better long run but it is not for everyone. I don't have a spouse or children so I could but I understand that is not the case for everyone 

[Randito]

20 hours ago, kettle said:

You can defer loans while in residency. You can also pay on them or pay on interest occurring on them during that time. 

There are also incredibly cheep PA programs out there, public institutions in less than desirable areas. Tuition for my school for the whole program was 37k for residents 58k for non residents. I did state undergraduate and worked full time doing that and paid for it up front.

Residency pay shouldn't be a deterrent. My classmates came out average income of 110k a year. Post residency I'll likely clear 50k more than that without over time in a rural area.

It boils down to the ability to take the hit initially for a better long run but it is not for everyone. I don't have a spouse or children so I could but I understand that is not the case for everyone 

I totally agree. You're already playing the long game by getting a graduate degree. Residency is 12-18 months of self investment after you've already invested 2-4 years into becoming a PA. Defer your loans if you have to. I'm probably making 25k per year more for having done a fellowship program and I'm not in a particularly well paying region. I'll make up for the lost wages in about 2-3 years and still have all the benefits from the training. 

[Aunt Val]

You're not alone!  I pretty much could have written the original post, as I'm dealing with the same thing.  It's been rough, and it really is disheartening to get rejection email after rejection email.  COVID + no experience = very few opportunities.

[AngeB]

Hey, late to this discussion but I’m curious if you ever found a job. I graduated this past spring (2021) and moved to Raleigh. I got my license and have been applying throughout the summer with only 3 interviews (1 residency, 1 UC job, and 1 pulm job). I was not selected for the residency, which i don’t blame them (it was my first interview and i don’t think i was prepared enough). I got the urgent care position but it seemed like they were trying to rip me off since I’m a new grad (offered $55/hr as an independent contractor, no benefits). I’m talking with the SP for the pulmonary job now, so far sounds very promising and they seem interested in me so I’m crossing my fingers. But if this doesn’t work out, I’m hoping things in the area are getting better. It was a rough summer :/

[Hope2PA]

PA leaders have basically screwed younger PA's.  I work in hospital, see and hear admin and physician talk and follow state/federal laws.  AAPA spent 1 million dollars for marketing which said name should be changed to Medical Care Practitioner and that physician assistant nor associate were good options.  Instead of following research, leaders chose to keep PA, attempt to change assistant to associate(physicians hate and will fight like hell).  The leaders say they would fight any title change, WRONG, physicians liked Medical Care Practitioner. Additionally, your leaders have chosen to set back while NP's have achieved full practice in 30+ states.  If you think the profession will continue without major problems, you are wrong.  PA's who don't agree have jobs, have many years experience and aren't looking beyond their own contentment. For a group of professionals that have pretty high admission standards, your leadership is unbelievably stupid! NP's are filling every position, because physicians no longer want to "supervise" and legislators will not grant FPA to assistants. You want a future, tell leaders to rethink title and push for FPA all together. This from someone who believed physicians should always be team leader, until I got stuck with one of the poorly educated NP's as a family provider in an NP independent state, who really screwed up.  They, NP's, will have FPA in all states within 10 years, you PA's, don't have option if you want to survive. 

[Cideous]

On 9/20/2021 at 7:31 PM, Hope2PA said:

PA leaders have basically screwed younger PA's.  I work in hospital, see and hear admin and physician talk and follow state/federal laws.  AAPA spent 1 million dollars for marketing which said name should be changed to Medical Care Practitioner and that physician assistant nor associate were good options.  Instead of following research, leaders chose to keep PA, attempt to change assistant to associate(physicians hate and will fight like hell).  The leaders say they would fight any title change, WRONG, physicians liked Medical Care Practitioner. Additionally, your leaders have chosen to set back while NP's have achieved full practice in 30+ states.  If you think the profession will continue without major problems, you are wrong.  PA's who don't agree have jobs, have many years experience and aren't looking beyond their own contentment. For a group of professionals that have pretty high admission standards, your leadership is unbelievably stupid! NP's are filling every position, because physicians no longer want to "supervise" and legislators will not grant FPA to assistants. You want a future, tell leaders to rethink title and push for FPA all together. This from someone who believed physicians should always be team leader, until I got stuck with one of the poorly educated NP's as a family provider in an NP independent state, who really screwed up.  They, NP's, will have FPA in all states within 10 years, you PA's, don't have option if you want to survive. 

THIS THIS AND THIS.

 

Until we put a foot in the ass and kick out EVERY SINGLE PA IN LEADERSHIP WHO DOES NOT SUPPORT A PROPER NAME CHANGE WE AS A PROFESSION WILL CONTINUE TO WITHER AND DIE.

 

I now work for the Govt in a medical provider inspection role and I was shocked by how many hospitals will ONLY consider NP's.  More to come later as I am just getting my feet wet, but folks...it's even worse then I could have imagined.