Adolescents and COVID Vaccine

[Cideous]

Same.  Lizard people, lol.

 

Sadly, fear and mistrust seem to be endemic to the masses and so it's been for our species over thousands of years.  The treatment of scientists at the hands of the so called religious community was unforgivable at the beginning of scientific curiosity.  We laugh now at the world being flat, but some where tortured and died for scientific truths at the hands of zealots.  It's all about controlling the masses through fear and maintaining power.  If they can shine that shiny light on the wall and distract people not willing to do the research for the truth, then they can distract them from ever seeking the truth.

[CAAdmission]

1 hour ago, Cideous said:

The treatment of scientists at the hands of the so called religious community was unforgivable at the beginning of scientific curiosity.  We laugh now at the world being flat, but some where tortured and died for scientific truths at the hands of zealots. 

Those were the same scientists that prescribed calomel, blistering and blood letting, right?

[Cideous]

23 minutes ago, CJAadmission said:

Those were the same scientists that prescribed calomel, blistering and blood letting, right?

I don't remember many Astronomers at the time giving blood letting prescriptions, do you?  But they sure as heck said the world was not flat and earth was not the center of the universe for which they lost everything. Go Go ignorance.  The simple fact is that human beings are incredible arrogant and willfully ignorant when something does not fit their world or religious view.  They don't know what they don't know and try and cover for it by making shit up.  Then, persecute anyone brazen enough to stand up for scientific truth.  We are seeing it play out every day right now with crazy conspiracies about this latest life saving Covid vaccine.  It's why I am convinced that these people will need to get Covid-19 and be decimated by it before they believe it's real.  Or have a family member suffocate to death on a vent before they start to possibly believe it's not a "hoax".

[CAAdmission]

15 minutes ago, Cideous said:

The simple fact is that human beings are incredible arrogant and willfully ignorant when something does not fit their world or religious view.  

Yeah, that cuts both ways. 

Have you ever heard of a medication that was on the market for a while and then pulled off after long-term adverse effects were identified? This is a real thing. For whatever reason you might think the odds are vanishingly small; others do not. 

[Cideous]

2 minutes ago, CJAadmission said:

Yeah, that cuts both ways. 

Have you ever heard of a medication that was on the market for a while and then pulled off after long-term adverse effects were identified? This is a real thing. For whatever reason you might think the odds are vanishingly small; others do not. 

I completely agree and of course you are right on meds going on and off the market.  I'm not sure that is the same as Vac's going on...and then off on the market.  I'm sure it has happened but I am not aware of it to any degree that certain meds have.  As for others not believing that the odds are small and outweighs the risk, I agree with you there as well.  Which is why I said what I said above...they will get it, die or live, possibly get long haulers covid and live (or die) with the consequences of that uninformed choice.  I don't think we should coddle these people anymore.  Go have a Covid party and see how it works out at your next Q meeting.  Natural selection is waiting in the wings to say hello....or, goodbye.  

[MediMike]

8 minutes ago, CJAadmission said:

Yeah, that cuts both ways. 

Have you ever heard of a medication that was on the market for a while and then pulled off after long-term adverse effects were identified? This is a real thing. For whatever reason you might think the odds are vanishingly small; others do not. 

One is a result of unforeseen effects, the other is a factor of the inherent terribleness of human kind.

The oxy-family continuing to push meds after the proven harm clearly being an exception.

[rev ronin]

4 hours ago, Cideous said:

The treatment of scientists at the hands of the so called religious community was unforgivable at the beginning of scientific curiosity.  We laugh now at the world being flat, but some where tortured and died for scientific truths at the hands of zealots.  It's all about controlling the masses through fear and maintaining power.  If they can shine that shiny light on the wall and distract people not willing to do the research for the truth, then they can distract them from ever seeking the truth.

Yeah, who was tortured and died at the hands of religious zealots? Ignaz Semmelweis?

The people who are controlling the masses through fear and maintaining power? Not seeing organized religion doing that anytime recently. The effort is ongoing, but organized religion isn't driving it.

[Cideous]

13 hours ago, rev ronin said:

Yeah, who was tortured and died at the hands of religious zealots? Ignaz Semmelweis?

The people who are controlling the masses through fear and maintaining power? Not seeing organized religion doing that anytime recently. The effort is ongoing, but organized religion isn't driving it.

Rev are you joking I hope?  Do you know many wars use religion as a way to rally the masses to go fight and die for leaders who simply wanted to maintain or increase their power?  They use (insert local religion here) as their means to control the people who will actually go fight that war?  

And if you have not seen it recently then you have never been to an Evangelical church.  The church I grew up in.  There is no mistaking that most Qanon and AntiVaxers are hard core evangelicals.  The vast majority of anti-vax sermons come from evangelical churches.  Most anti-vax communities are based around an evangelical setting.  This mentality is directly correlated with people not getting immunized and prolonging the pandemic and its associated deaths.  In other words, blood on their hands.  

If you need a refresh, read this article and it very clearly outlines religious persecution of science and scientists.  

https://www.wired.com/2012/06/famous-persecuted-scientists/

 

Here is an excerpt from just one of some guy named, Galileo:

Galileo (1564-1642)
The Italian astronomer and physicist Galileo Galilei was trialled and convicted in 1633 for publishing his evidence that supported the Copernican theory that the Earth revolves around the Sun. His research was instantly criticized by the Catholic Church for going against the established scripture that places Earth and not the Sun at the center of the universe. Galileo was found "vehemently suspect of heresy" for his heliocentric views and was required to "abjure, curse and detest" his opinions. He was sentenced to house arrest, where he remained for the rest of his life and his offending texts were banned.

[CAAdmission]

8 minutes ago, Cideous said:

This mentality is directly correlated with people not getting immunized and prolonging the pandemic and its associated deaths.  In other words, blood on their hands.  

At this point, that is pure speculation. If you and your family are immunized what do you care?

[Cideous]

14 minutes ago, CJAadmission said:

At this point, that is pure speculation. If you and your family are immunized what do you care?

Simple, because every one of these people who choose not to get immunized are increasing the risk that this virus will mutate and cause a variant to emerge which current vacs do not cover.  The way we ridded the world of small pox was to immunize everyone before it could mutate.  That is not going to be the case with Covid.

The thing that really ticks me off is India.  The country is being decimated by Covid-19 right now.  People are standing in line for hours begging for the Vac, and yet we have it here and anti-vac'ers are like....ummm nah, I'm good.  

[sas5814]

well India is a fair example. They are getting destroyed by COVID right now. Why? because just a few weeks ago millions of Indians had to go splash around in the sewer they call the Ganges for a religious festival. I watched it and thought.... they are all going to die. And now they are. Sadly they are going to take a lot of others along with them. I think you have a right to be foolish. You don't have a right to kill other people doing it.

We have our share of crackpots and outliers. I don't think they compare to India and its total disregard for the pandemic in favor of a ritual.

[ANESMCR]

3 hours ago, CJAadmission said:

At this point, that is pure speculation. If you and your family are immunized what do you care?

It’s not speculation. It’s immunology. Herd immunity is not achievable on our current trajectory with the new variants. 
 

Unvaccinated folks will forever prolong the virus. Every single person it can infect will provide another potential opportunity to mutate. The elderly and immunocompromised population don’t develop antibodies the way a young healthy individual does. Despite vaccination, and if exposed to an unvaccinated infected person, they will potentially become extremely ill and succumb. This just happened in a nursing home in Kentucky. Unvaccinated employee infected 18 vaccinated residents, killed two of them. This has been demonstrated time and time again with measles with numerous examples you probably already know. 
 

What’s hilarious is that this will probably remain and an American virus for another century. We have the most access to vaccination than any other developed nation, but the highest rates of vaccine hesitancy. Countries with less “American exceptionalism” will likely achieve a vaccine-based immunity well before we ever do. So we’ll likely just have to continue to live with it because 40% of our population HATES being told what to do. 
 

 

[LKPAC]

I'm just a regular guy.  I don't often have the opportunity to be courageous or a hero.  I am a country boy with a couple of science degrees practicing frontline family medicine.

However, I was one of the first people in this world to be vaccinated last December, with a booster in January.  I knew I needed to set a good example for my patients, my family, my friends.  Many courageous health care workers were right beside me.

I'm not stupid or naive. I know about mRNA technology.  (I got the Pfizer vax.) I know how much it has been tested.  Sure, I was a little nervous about it, but getting the vaccine is what I have to do to protect my family and my community.  Maybe that's the ol' military dog in me.  I know that people of courage are going to have to stand up and get vaccinated.  I don't want to be the one who kills someone else by transmitting the disease.

[rev ronin]

11 hours ago, Cideous said:

Rev are you joking I hope?  Do you know many wars use religion as a way to rally the masses to go fight and die for leaders who simply wanted to maintain or increase their power?  They use (insert local religion here) as their means to control the people who will actually go fight that war?  

And if you have not seen it recently then you have never been to an Evangelical church.  The church I grew up in.  There is no mistaking that most Qanon and AntiVaxers are hard core evangelicals.  The vast majority of anti-vax sermons come from evangelical churches.  Most anti-vax communities are based around an evangelical setting.  This mentality is directly correlated with people not getting immunized and prolonging the pandemic and its associated deaths.  In other words, blood on their hands.  

If you need a refresh, read this article and it very clearly outlines religious persecution of science and scientists.  

https://www.wired.com/2012/06/famous-persecuted-scientists/

1) If you include atheism as a religion, then I'll go along with your statement.  The idea that religion is a cause of warfare--or, more accurately and to give you appropriate credit, the way that those in power manipulate others to do their bidding--ignores the fact that fascism and communism had a MUCH higher body count.  What's the biggest religious atrocity of the 20th century?  Turkish genocide of the Armenians? I'd argue that that's primarily an ethnic conflict rather than the first documented case of an Islamofascist massacre of Christians.

2) The fact that the political right is against Covid-19 vaccination is incredibly frustrating to me personally.  The media can't bring itself to argue the one thing that would get them on board: This was Trump's idea, developed under Trump's watch, and will in retrospect be the biggest success of his presidency.  Now, that's a one-sided presentation of the truth, and there's plenty to fault Trump for, but the ONE THING that would soften the political right (which often overlaps with the religious right, as you note) is to praise Trump, and I just don't see it happening.

3) Persecuted scientists? Do show me the religious connection, would you? Turing was, in his day, considered a sexual deviant who was given the best treatments available at the time. Eighty years later, our perspective has changed, but we do no one any favors by judging 1940's actions by 2020's sensibilities. Einstein was hardly unique in being oppressed by the Third Reich.  Galileo was subject to house arrest not for holding an opinion, but for grandstanding about it. Do you have any newer examples of scientists truly persecuted at the hands of religion? I'm not kidding when I note Semmelweis as among the persecuted, even if there's no particular religion involved, just a bunch of pigheaded doctors who refuse to listen to the best evidence-based medicine of the time, because closed-minded idiocy knows no religious limits.

[CAAdmission]

It looks like "the scientists" are saying masks can go for the vaccinated, but some governors are not yet taking that advice. Very strange.