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Seriously, what is the fastest way to an NP degree??


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21 minutes ago, ventana said:

Lots of talk of PA-->NP

 

What is the fastest way to this right now?  Lots of tele and online programs but let's get the specifics??

 

 

You obviously have a bachelors.  Your local college likely has a direct entry NP program.  These are generally 2.5-3 years, the first year being an accelerated BSN followed by 1.5-2 years of NP.

Make sure you understand the day-to-day schedule of the program.  When I looked into my local university that offered it, they said the year long accelerated BSN was M-F 8hrs per day and that it was impossible to work full time. 

For me, the only way to make it work was to get my associates in nursing in a blended track program through my local community college (evenings, weekends, and lots of self study).  Once I complete this, I'll apply to the NP program.  Personally, I'll be doing NP part time, which will be 3 years instead of 1.5-2 years because I'll need to continue working full time (M-F day job) while going to school.

The two caveats to the community college ADN to university NP are that the community college route is generally 5 semesters instead of 3 (accelerated BSN length) and a lot of university NP programs require a BSN.  The local university NP program that I'm planning on applying to doesn't care if my bachelors is in nursing, so long as I have any bachelors and an RN.

A third option would be an accelerated BSN program separate from the NP program.  Those are generally 1 year in length, then apply to any NP program..

 

TL:DR - 2.5-3 years.

 

 

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The accelerated BSN programs are usually very expensive as most are private.  My son is doing the community college route which is hella cheap, but there is a 3 semester waiting list.  He's 19 so it's no biggie on the wait.  Better that then killer school loan debt.

 

There needs to be a PA to NP bridge program.  Mercy would that program do well.

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Lots of options if serious about it.

1. You do have to be a nurse first. Some school require a BSN, some require just any bachelor's + RN. Look and see if you have options around you (or online) for the programs that do NOT require a BSN. Once you've identified a few..

2. Get your RN degree. Local community college is best for that as it will likely cost a few thousand at most, but will take 2 years. The fastest and most expensive option is an ABSN, or accelerated bachelor's or nursing. It's for people with a bachelor's in something else, they get credit for that and then take JUST the nursing classes and get a BSN. These programs are competitive, difficult, and fast-paced. It's a different caliber of student. They are cramming a 4 year BSN into 1 full year, including all of the hospital clinical hours. Expect 5 or even 6 day weeks (some require weekend clinicals and class M-Friday) and you won't be able to work during these programs. You also cannot get ANY federal aid or student loans because it is considered a "2nd" bachelor's and you're not eligible for more money after your first bachelor.

3. Pass the RN boards (NCLEX) and get licensed in your state. You do not need to work as a nurse for MOST programs, but the more competitive ones and top programs often like to see it. This is especially true of "acute care NP" programs which are all about inpatient and hospitalist work and like to see you have worked in that environment. I imagine your PA experience would suffice.

4. Apply to NP program. Avoid the for-profit programs. They will try to rope you in with scammy salespeople but either do your local brick and mortar or a reputable online program. That way your education won't be a total waste and you'll have your clinical hours setup in positive environments instead of on your own. Remember that NP programs are population specific! You must choose the program that fits the scope you want to have:

FNP for outpatient primary care of all ages

AGNP for specialized outpatient primary care of adults and elderly

WHNP for OBGYN

ACNP for acute care/inpatient

ENP for emergency medicine

PMHNP for psychiatry

PMP for pediatrics

You cannot practice outside your scope. PMP cannot see adults. AGNP cannot see kids under 13, etc.

5. Pass the NP boards for your specialty, get licensed in your state. Apply for independent license if available in your state, some states have separate requirements to be an independent NP.

 

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11 minutes ago, Cideous said:

There needs to be a PA to NP bridge program.  Mercy would that program do well.

anything longer than 12 months part time while working would be ridiculous.  9 months to get RN stuff for those who are not RNs (how to use pumps, hang blood, RN level tasks, etc) and a single nursing theory class. There should be zero clinical time as PAs already have much more. For those who already have an RN, they should be able to sit for the FNP exam without any added coursework of any kind. I would also be ok with an NP to PA bridge, but it would need to be quite a bit longer, like 18 months, and include clinical time with at least 9 months of full time clinicals. 

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Let's make a deal for crossover testing. Let any NP that wants to take the NCCPA exam sit for it and vice-versa. Stick the landing and here is your certification.

I know... never happen for a lot of reasons but it would be a great experiment

 

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27 minutes ago, sas5814 said:

Let's make a deal for crossover testing. Let any NP that wants to take the NCCPA exam sit for it and vice-versa. Stick the landing and here is your certification.

I know... never happen for a lot of reasons but it would be a great experiment

 

The problem is incompatibility between being a generalist PA and a specialized NP. The average psych NP with a few years experience and a month with a review book would definitely pass a psychiatry-focused PA board exam. But the generalized (PANCE?) one? I doubt it.

 

That's also the problem with the bridge programs. What would the PA bridge to? Only FNP? You still wouldn't be independent in certain specialties then because you'd be held to that scope. A PA couldn't do a 12 month PMHNP bridge because of the specific PMHNP coursework, including courses on counseling theory, psychopharmacology, and management of psychiatric conditions. If credit was given for previous clinical hours it would only be for population focused hours. While I understand most PA programs have MORE hours overall, very few would count toward the PMHNP psychiatry specific hours, which also required (at least in my program) certain subspecialty hours. For example, I had to do both inpatient and outpatient psychiatry, substance abuse, group therapy, individual psychotherapy, and pediatric psychiatry. I also had to do a rotation on "complicated psychiatry" which could include anything from psych consults for people in the hospital for other reasons or community-based programs working with certain populations such as homeless or those with chronic illnesses such as HIV. I don't know about other specialties but I imagine they too have specific subsets of hours that have to be met - it isn't just 750-1000 generic hours.

 

I can't imagine the reverse situation, as nothing would be gained from an NP becoming a PA except maybe more standardized instruction or if they wanted to work in surgery/orthopedics. Most NPs who want further training just go on to medical school.

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1 hour ago, Komorebi said:

 

 

I can't imagine the reverse situation, as nothing would be gained from an NP becoming a PA except maybe more standardized instruction or if they wanted to work in surgery/orthopedics. Most NPs who want further training just go on to medical school.

I have never met a NP who regretted not becoming a PA.  I have never met an NP who lamented their training vs ours.  I have met dozens who laugh when I said how hard my program was and how we could not work during it.  In fact, I had to sign something that said...."I will not work".  They simply could not believe it.  Also what they can not believe is that we are still using the name "Assistants".  I've had several that I got to know tell me, "you know your name is holding you guys back, right?".   Yeah...I know.  *&^@#$!

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A PA to NP bridge would have to be to FNP. From there, one could pick up additional specialty certs, often through online training with some additional clinical time.

In some markets(like mine) certain specialties are really only open to PAs. If an NP wanted to work solo EM or surgery in my area they would not be able to, just like the psych and women's health jobs being essentially NP only. 

My competition for jobs is not NPs, it is FP docs who want to work in EM. 

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43 minutes ago, Cideous said:

I have never met a NP who regretted not becoming a PA.  I have never met an NP who lamented their training vs ours.  I have met dozens who laugh when I said how hard my program was and how we could not work during it.  In fact, I had to sign something that said...."I will not work".  They simply could not believe it.  Also what they can not believe is that we are still using the name "Assistants".  I've had several that I got to know tell me, "you know your name is holding you guys back, right?".   Yeah...I know.  *&^@#$!

Just switch to Medical Practitioner and go by "MP" it sounds exactly the same as NP and would probably trick a few legislators into giving "MPs" full practice authority instead by mistake 🤣🤣🤣

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6 minutes ago, Komorebi said:

Just switch to Medical Practitioner and go by "MP" it sounds exactly the same as NP and would probably trick a few legislators into giving "MPs" full practice authority instead by mistake 🤣🤣🤣

That's tactical thinking right there...

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5 hours ago, Komorebi said:

Lots of options if serious about it.

1. You do have to be a nurse first. Some school require a BSN, some require just any bachelor's + RN. Look and see if you have options around you (or online) for the programs that do NOT require a BSN. Once you've identified a few..

2. Get your RN degree. Local community college is best for that as it will likely cost a few thousand at most, but will take 2 years. The fastest and most expensive option is an ABSN, or accelerated bachelor's or nursing. It's for people with a bachelor's in something else, they get credit for that and then take JUST the nursing classes and get a BSN. These programs are competitive, difficult, and fast-paced. It's a different caliber of student. They are cramming a 4 year BSN into 1 full year, including all of the hospital clinical hours. Expect 5 or even 6 day weeks (some require weekend clinicals and class M-Friday) and you won't be able to work during these programs. You also cannot get ANY federal aid or student loans because it is considered a "2nd" bachelor's and you're not eligible for more money after your first bachelor.

3. Pass the RN boards (NCLEX) and get licensed in your state. You do not need to work as a nurse for MOST programs, but the more competitive ones and top programs often like to see it. This is especially true of "acute care NP" programs which are all about inpatient and hospitalist work and like to see you have worked in that environment. I imagine your PA experience would suffice.

4. Apply to NP program. Avoid the for-profit programs. They will try to rope you in with scammy salespeople but either do your local brick and mortar or a reputable online program. That way your education won't be a total waste and you'll have your clinical hours setup in positive environments instead of on your own. Remember that NP programs are population specific! You must choose the program that fits the scope you want to have:

FNP for outpatient primary care of all ages

AGNP for specialized outpatient primary care of adults and elderly

WHNP for OBGYN

ACNP for acute care/inpatient

ENP for emergency medicine

PMHNP for psychiatry

PMP for pediatrics

You cannot practice outside your scope. PMP cannot see adults. AGNP cannot see kids under 13, etc.

5. Pass the NP boards for your specialty, get licensed in your state. Apply for independent license if available in your state, some states have separate requirements to be an independent NP.

 

oh if only that were true

 

in my area if you have an NP degree they will hire you anywhere to do anything

 

I have considered making a formal complaint to BON and BOM but that is just way to confrontational for me - but I wish someone would as it is unfair to have an Geri NP working in the ER or FNP doing acute care - their training is not for those specialties ...

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7 hours ago, Komorebi said:

Lots of options if serious about it.

1. You do have to be a nurse first. Some school require a BSN, some require just any bachelor's + RN. Look and see if you have options around you (or online) for the programs that do NOT require a BSN. Once you've identified a few..

2. Get your RN degree. Local community college is best for that as it will likely cost a few thousand at most, but will take 2 years. The fastest and most expensive option is an ABSN, or accelerated bachelor's or nursing. It's for people with a bachelor's in something else, they get credit for that and then take JUST the nursing classes and get a BSN. These programs are competitive, difficult, and fast-paced. It's a different caliber of student. They are cramming a 4 year BSN into 1 full year, including all of the hospital clinical hours. Expect 5 or even 6 day weeks (some require weekend clinicals and class M-Friday) and you won't be able to work during these programs. You also cannot get ANY federal aid or student loans because it is considered a "2nd" bachelor's and you're not eligible for more money after your first bachelor.

3. Pass the RN boards (NCLEX) and get licensed in your state. You do not need to work as a nurse for MOST programs, but the more competitive ones and top programs often like to see it. This is especially true of "acute care NP" programs which are all about inpatient and hospitalist work and like to see you have worked in that environment. I imagine your PA experience would suffice.

4. Apply to NP program. Avoid the for-profit programs. They will try to rope you in with scammy salespeople but either do your local brick and mortar or a reputable online program. That way your education won't be a total waste and you'll have your clinical hours setup in positive environments instead of on your own. Remember that NP programs are population specific! You must choose the program that fits the scope you want to have:

FNP for outpatient primary care of all ages

AGNP for specialized outpatient primary care of adults and elderly

WHNP for OBGYN

ACNP for acute care/inpatient

ENP for emergency medicine

PMHNP for psychiatry

PMP for pediatrics

You cannot practice outside your scope. PMP cannot see adults. AGNP cannot see kids under 13, etc.

5. Pass the NP boards for your specialty, get licensed in your state. Apply for independent license if available in your state, some states have separate requirements to be an independent NP.

 

Just a correction, it’s crams 2 years into 1. You don’t take the pre-nursing years during a accelerated program. For those curious, the intensity is about the same as that of PA school. Definitely not time to do other things, and your medical knowledge will help only a little. There is a lot to nursing and nursing theory you will have to learn.

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2 hours ago, ventana said:

oh if only that were true

 

in my area if you have an NP degree they will hire you anywhere to do anything

 

I have considered making a formal complaint to BON and BOM but that is just way to confrontational for me - but I wish someone would as it is unfair to have an Geri NP working in the ER or FNP doing acute care - their training is not for those specialties ...

It's actually more complicated than that. For independent practice in many states you have to stay in scope. When you have a supervising physician, you can work outside your scope of the physician basically "vouches" for you on the supervising agreement that you can do those things based on extra training and the physicians scope. It's very state dependent and the nursing orgs are really trying to put a stop to it and enforce the scope of practice rules. Many hospitals ARE moving away from hiring FNPs for inpatient.

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  • Let's be clear, a FNP can get hired to do anything.  The old days of NP's being field specific are loooooong over.  I have worked with a ton of FNP's doing Urgent Care AND Emergency medicine.  So let's be clear here.
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3 minutes ago, Cideous said:
  • Let's be clear, a FNP can get hired to do anything.  The old days of NP's being field specific are loooooong over.  I have worked with a ton of FNP's doing Urgent Care AND Emergency medicine.  So let's be clear here.

Agree- Many of these folks are WAY out of their depth if they do anything but primary care. 

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The problem with our profession is that surgical PA only care about surgical PA, EM care about EM, etc. They don't give a crap about me only having to scrap for crappy Psych jobs. Whereas, nurses are all nurses and all lobby for each other 

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Jefferson University's full-time ABSN + MSN program (FNP) totals to 27 month if you go straight through.

The ABSN program is M-F for the first 12 months with 1 random day off (changes every quarter) during the week.

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5 minutes ago, Diggy said:

Jefferson University's full-time ABSN + MSN program (FNP) totals to 27 month if you go straight through.

The ABSN program is M-F for the first 12 months with 1 random day off (changes every quarter) during the week.

so 15 months for msn/np component? wow, that's fast. 

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On 4/29/2021 at 9:49 PM, EMEDPA said:

so 15 months for msn/np component? wow, that's fast. 

Yup. Enrolled but withdrew so I can pursue an actual ENP program.

 

I should add that this is somewhat made possible because you get 0 breaks during the ABSN lmao. Longest break I got was 3 days during Christmas. Quarter 1 ended Friday, Quarter 2 began that Monday. I would never do a program like that again.

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2 hours ago, EMEDPA said:

Agree- Many of these folks are WAY out of their depth if they do anything but primary care. 

A lot of people see FNP as the nurse practitioner equivalent of the "generalist PA" ready to do anything. And honestly, many employers see FNPs this way and they are marketed that way. It isn't true though. The FNP is ONLY trained in outpatient primary care. I started out in an FNP program and we totally skip over anything "emergent" other than basic office emergencies such as suturing. FNP training is heavy on chronic illness management and acting as a PCP for people.

That said - you can build on FNP training to do anything else where there isn't a specialized degree for it. Most specialty NPs are either FNP or AGNP. I think urgent care is a stretch unless they were an emergency room RN prior to becoming an FNP. Inpatient/hospitalist positions would be completely outside of scope, FNPs do not do ANY inpatient training at all.

I think specialization is one major strength of NP programs. I'm glad my ENTIRE program was geared toward psychiatry. My overall program length and clinical hours may be shorter than a PA program, but I have far more psychiatric training than a new PA graduate. Same holds true for pediatric NP and women's health NPs. I think only the ACNP/AGNP/FNP falls short because it is basically the entire PA curriculum (general inpatient and outpatient care) split up into 3 different paths.

The ENP is also pretty cool (Emergency Nurse Practitioner) and DOES build upon the FNP degree for more training in emergency and urgent care. Those are the only FNPs you should see an emergency room.

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6 minutes ago, Komorebi said:

 

The ENP is also pretty cool (Emergency Nurse Practitioner) and DOES build upon the FNP degree for more training in emergency and urgent care. Those are the only FNPs you should see an emergency room.

Can't ACNP (acute care) do EM or critical care? 

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7 minutes ago, EMEDPA said:

Can't ACNP (acute care) do EM or critical care? 

My understanding is the ACNP is supposed to be trained for inpatient care not necessarily emergent care. Most programs allow specialized beyond ACNP such as cardiology, neurology, etc. I think these are meant to be the ICU/Medical unit NPs.

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21 minutes ago, Komorebi said:

My understanding is the ACNP is supposed to be trained for inpatient care not necessarily emergent care. Most programs allow specialized beyond ACNP such as cardiology, neurology, etc. I think these are meant to be the ICU/Medical unit NPs.

Gotcha, thanks!

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