Epiphany: It's the fertility... maybe?

[rev ronin]

Per https://www.aanp.org/about/all-about-nps/np-fact-sheet the average age of an NP is 47 years old.

Per https://mypatraining.com/typical-physician-assistant/ the average age of a PA is 41. But looking at https://datausa.io/profile/soc/physician-assistants, female PAs are both 2/3rds of the profession and over 5 years younger, on average, than their male counterparts.

One reason we're losing out to NPs on jobs may be that employers want a "non-discriminatory" way to discriminate against female professionals who have a higher likelihood of going out on maternity leave in the future.  If your average NP is 47 and your average female PA is 37, there's a huge difference in anticipated future fertility based on profession.

This will be further biased by the fact that NP programs are often structured so family obligations are relatively easier to handle than they are in PA programs. Anecdotally, none of the 3 RNs (2 female, 1 male) in my PA program had kids--I wonder how many RNs who already had kids would chose PA school over NP school?

I really hate this.  I so, so wish I'm wrong.  But for those of you unfamiliar with my background, thinking up sneaky ways to do evil things was part of my IT security professional skill set.

[sas5814]

You made me laugh Jon because I often say my super power is being able to imagine the worst possible scenario/outcome.

That is a wild theory. I think one of the doctoral students should take it on as a thesis.

[Reality Check 2]

Dec. 23, 2019 at 5:00 a.m. PST

For the first time, women make up the majority of students in U.S. medical schools. In 2019, 46,878 medical school students (50.5 percent) are women and 45,855 (49.4 percent) are men, according to a new report from the Association of American Medical Colleges (AAMC). The enrollment proportion has been shifting in women’s favor in recent years. From 2009 to 2019, for instance, the number of men in medical schools increased by 5,465, while the number of women in medical schools increased by 9,899. In the medical profession overall, male doctors still outnumber female doctors, 64 percent to 36 percent, according to 2019 data from the Kaiser Family Foundation. But that may be changing, according to a report from the health-care company AthenaHealth. Its survey of 18,000 physicians at 3,500 practices on its network found that, in 2017, 80 percent of doctors 65 and older were men, but 60 percent of doctors younger than 35 were women. 

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The average of the medical student is 24.

These young female medical students will become young female doctors of childbearing age.

So, not sure your data stands up to measure.

 

[Reality Check 2]

In 2007, the number of certified PAs by gender in 2018 is 73.9% female and just 26.1% male.

 

Unless men figure out how to birth them babies - the world has to adapt.

[rev ronin]

3 hours ago, Reality Check 2 said:

The average of the medical student is 24.

These young female medical students will become young female doctors of childbearing age.

So, not sure your data stands up to measure.

Sure... but PAs are not competing for jobs vs MD/DOs.  It's a separate market, so physician issues don't necessarily impact it.

[Reality Check 2]

I think the younger female MD/DOs will be the Collaborators, colleagues and peers of the younger PA females.

They will have trained together and done rotations together, unlike the NPs who are usually in other training sites.

I think the female PAs may have a leg up in the job market with docs who know how they were trained.

Another perspective

[rev ronin]

1 hour ago, Reality Check 2 said:

I think the younger female MD/DOs will be the Collaborators, colleagues and peers of the younger PA females.

They will have trained together and done rotations together, unlike the NPs who are usually in other training sites.

I think the female PAs may have a leg up in the job market with docs who know how they were trained.

Another perspective

Sure, but the MDs and DOs aren't driving this bus.  The MHAs and MBAs are.  We've focused for years on how there are more nurses in admin giving NPs a leg up... but that would at least be loyalty to one's own profession.  What I fear is something even worse: soulless devotion to the bottom line.

The only reason discrimination is ever prohibited by law is that in some twisted world, it makes sense--if it didn't, there would be no reason to make it illegal.  A twisted world, like, oh, the hyper-capitalism where the value of having medical professionals in your employ enjoy raising their own families becomes a negative on the balance sheet because they're not there making revenue for your organization.

I hope I'm wrong.  But if I can think of it, surely someone else already has.

[EastCoastPA]

Aren't NPs ~90% female? I get the fertility aspect, but I think they usually put the real reason in the 3 sentence rejection when they say they are looking for an independent nurse practitioner.

[rev ronin]

9 hours ago, EastCoastPA said:

Aren't NPs ~90% female? I get the fertility aspect, but I think they usually put the real reason in the 3 sentence rejection when they say they are looking for an independent nurse practitioner.

Hanlon's Razor would agree with you.  I'm not so sure that's all of the story.

[EMEDPA]

21 hours ago, rev ronin said:

Sure... but PAs are not competing for jobs vs MD/DOs.  It's a separate market, so physician issues don't necessarily impact it.

depends on your job situation. As an EMPA, I am competing directly against new grad FP MDs...They know less and make more, but they are "physicians" so obviously superior...

Look how this group defines APPs:

https://emnacs.bamboohr.com/jobs/view.php?id=23

 

[MediMike]

28 minutes ago, EMEDPA said:

depends on your job situation. As an EMPA, I am competing directly against new grad FP MDs...They know less and make more, but they are "physicians" so obviously superior...

Look how this group defines APPs:

https://emnacs.bamboohr.com/jobs/view.php?id=23

 

That's pretty awesome. Found it funny that they use the term "Critical Care APPs", was this posting looking for CC coverage for boarding patients? Or is that simply the term they use for ED APPs?

[ohiovolffemtp]

Not sure how the thought of employers shying away from potential employees who might go on maternity leave favors either PA's or NP's.  Most PA students are young and female: average age of 25 and ~ 70% female.  Most RN's are female, therefore most NP students are female.  I see many RN's with 1-2 years in already in NP school.  So, the new grad job hunters whether PA or NP are going to be similar.