Cideous Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 (edited) 25 minutes ago, TheFatMan said: 6 cases of CVST out of nearly 7 million doses. CVST occurs in 5 people per million annually. Chance of being struck by lightning 1/700,000 annually. Chace of VTE with OCPs is 1 in 3,000. We'll see. In some ways this is a good thing they noticed this and are doing something about it. I'm sure it won't help confidence. On the other hand, I don't know if it is ethical to withhold a life-saving vaccine over something so rare. Exactly. Also the pause is suppose to last just a few days. Big wank. Edited April 13, 2021 by Cideous 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAAdmission Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, sas5814 said: As stated I think everyone gets to stratify risks by their own personal metric. However, on matters of public policy I don't think you get to complain if you choose not to get vaccinated and then you can't travel internationally (or get on a plane at all). Permitted or not, my personal risk stratification is that it's epically stupid to get on an airplane at all during a pandemic (unless you own it and you're the only one on board). 1 hour ago, TheFatMan said: 6 cases of CVST out of nearly 7 million doses. CVST occurs in 5 people per million annually. Chance of being struck by lightning 1/700,000 annually. Chace of VTE with OCPs is 1 in 3,000. We'll see. In some ways this is a good thing they noticed this and are doing something about it. I'm sure it won't help confidence. On the other hand, I don't know if it is ethical to withhold a life-saving vaccine over something so rare. I agree with you and that's more my issue. If the number is so trivial, why call a halt at all? Does the CDC not employ statisticians? What's the morbidity related to non-CVST clots? I'm told that government knows best and I should trust them at all times, so this must be a big deal. Are most people educated enough to know the differences between vaccines, and to select one with a more favorable risk profile? I think most people sign up online for whatever vaccine is available, no questions asked. 57 minutes ago, Cideous said: Big wank. Like so many things in medicine these days. Edited April 13, 2021 by CJAadmission Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAAdmission Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 You'd all better change your minds - you're at risk of agreeing with Donald Trump. LOLOL. https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2021/04/13/trump-responds-to-johnson--johnson-vaccine-being-pulled-n2587842 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFatMan Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 13 minutes ago, CJAadmission said: I agree with you and that's more my issue. If the number is so trivial, why call a halt at all? Does the CDC not employ statisticians? What's the morbidity related to non-CVST clots? I'm told that government knows best and I should trust them at all times, so this must be a big deal. Are most people educated enough to know the differences between vaccines, and to select one with a more favorable risk profile? I think most people sign up online for whatever vaccine is available, no questions asked. Yeah...I dunno. Lots of eyes on them and maybe they thought if they didn't do something about it people would think they were covering things up. I may misunderstand this, but I think it is a recommendation and not a hard 'stop right now.' Although the publicity of it makes that kind of inevitable. Re: Trump. Not agreeing with him, and I don't think you'd agree with him either. He says the executive branch should have interfered with the CDC to reverse their new recommendations. I don't agree with that at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator rev ronin Posted April 13, 2021 Administrator Share Posted April 13, 2021 3 hours ago, sas5814 said: 6 cases out of 7 million doses administered. I'd say "abundance of caution" is an understatement. It's worse than that: humans are terrible at understanding the reality of high-impact, ultra-low-frequency events. We all think we're going to win the powerball and/or die in a commercial jet airliner crash. So, the impact of people mistakenly assuming the vaccine's danger might impact them will clearly lead to more mortality and morbidity through hesitancy than might possibly be saved through the vaccine being paused and restarted, even in a declining-infection and declining-mortality environment. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cideous Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 The odds are literally 1 in a million and that's even IF there is some correlation which I don't believe there is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANESMCR Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 3 hours ago, rev ronin said: We all think we're going to win the powerball and/or die in a commercial jet airliner crash. This is gold! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFatMan Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator rev ronin Posted April 14, 2021 Administrator Share Posted April 14, 2021 5 hours ago, ANESMCR said: This is gold! Thank you. Feel free to use it with wild abandon, because I either dreamed it up myself while trying to illustrate this concept to people who don't get what a risk assessment is during my past IT security career... or I estimate a 20% chance I stole it from someone else and have just forgotten where I heard it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komorebi Posted April 14, 2021 Share Posted April 14, 2021 I love the idea of a vaccine passport. I am a huge international traveler and the pandemic has made traveling almost impossible. If vaccine passports allow vaccinated people to finally travel again, I am all for it. I have often gone to countries that have requirements for entry - specific vaccines, VISAs, etc. If they want to require a vaccine for COVID-19 as well, that is their right. Travelers do not have a right to decline ANY requirements a country imposes before letting you inside the borders - it is their country, their rules. If you can't comply, don't visit. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator rev ronin Posted April 14, 2021 Administrator Share Posted April 14, 2021 4 hours ago, mcclane said: Ok, where is it? I'll read it. JAAPA, Feb 2020. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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