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Just now, surgblumm said:

So why are these poor new grads waiting months for a job and taking them in areas where they have little interest or are under trained?

Really?  Seems like the obvious answer,  COVID has thrown a monkey wrench in EVERYTHING

lots of friends are out of work, with no end in sight (non-medical)  Heck at least we are still chugging along unlike some industries - ie restaurant, vacation, motel, lodging....

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13 hours ago, surgblumm said:

So why are these poor new grads waiting months for a job and taking them in areas where they have little interest or are under trained?

Because they fail to network appropriately? 

Because they refuse to look outside of their top desired specialty?

Because they refuse to move for a position?

Because COVID has changed the game for the time being? 

Because they lack the skills to sell themselves in an interview?

I agree with you on most of your thoughts- this one not so much, although. 

There is always room for advancing the profession with efforts such as OTP, title change, etc., yet the profession itself is still very rewarding on many fronts. 
 

I had a job before I even graduated and was licensed. Shoot- 2 jobs! Some people write their own ticket, some find something to blame when they face obstacle(s).

Edited by deltawave
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20 hours ago, ventana said:

Really?  Seems like the obvious answer,  COVID has thrown a monkey wrench in EVERYTHING

lots of friends are out of work, with no end in sight (non-medical)  Heck at least we are still chugging along unlike some industries - ie restaurant, vacation, motel, lodging....

After a long search I finally took a non medical job.  It's a laughable position that most would assume a retiree would do.  Not making anything near what I did in medicine which blows but at least no one dies.  In 27 years, I have never seen a job market this bad.

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51 minutes ago, ShakaHoo said:

It is extremely interesting to see projected number of jobs:

 

PA-C 39,300

APRN 110,700

 

That is the expected new jobs through 2028. Graduation of approximately 9,000-10,000 PAs per year and 30,000+ NP per year. Better hold on to your hats come 2025. All the while, we as a country are struggling with nurse and teacher shortage. I don’t understand how this could be ranked as #1 profession to enter at this time. 

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12 hours ago, deltawave said:

I had a job before I even graduated and was licensed. Shoot- 2 jobs! Some people write their own ticket, some find something to blame when they face obstacle(s).

Surely the rest of your cohort had a similar story? Or are they all lazy bastards as well? I 100% disagree with your post and actually find it quite irritating. We can compare anecdotes all day and get nowhere. I struggled through the job market for many months despite not meeting any of your said criteria. I watched 75% of my colleagues go through the same, and I currently watch experienced PAs continue to struggle. Well before Covid hit. You might have found your cush job right out of school, but that doesn’t mean you’re better suited or more attributable than anyone else, just puts you at a lack of perspective. 

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18 minutes ago, ANESMCR said:

Surely the rest of your cohort had a similar story? Or are they all lazy bastards as well? I 100% disagree with your post and actually find it quite irritating. We can compare anecdotes all day and get nowhere. I struggled through the job market for many months despite not meeting any of your said criteria. I watched 75% of my colleagues go through the same, and I currently watch experienced PAs continue to struggle. Well before Covid hit. You might have found your cush job right out of school, but that doesn’t mean you’re better suited or more attributable than anyone else, just puts you at a lack of perspective. 

strongly support this

 

this is unprecedented times

never have I seen job market like this in 21 yrs of following it

 

it is just odd and hurting everyone....

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Out of my cohort of ~25 almost everyone has a job already; in multiple states we have alumni. So, yes, while the market may be tough in some areas it is not in others. I have an anecdote for you and you have one for me. Neither prove anything- other than the outlook for the career is apparently numero uno with explosive growth into the next decade. 
 

We all our conceive own perspective, for we all have different experiences. I don’t assume the collective of my colleagues are “lazy bastards” and I never said that they were. Some people find solutions instead of complain- that’s a desired quality in many- if that insinuates everyone else is a lazy bastard then perhaps you’re quick to emotion. Re-read what I said. If you take offense to it then, well, I’ll buy you a drink and try to help you out. 
 

Don’t come at me like I’m claiming to be holier than thou. I’m not. I worked my ass off to get where I am. That makes me suitable for someone, if not for you. While doing so I have always given to my colleagues any available lead I can, advice I could lend, or suggestions to help them out. I understand people are struggling, but I maintain the premise that to overcome adversity you must be a problem solver. This is a team game, but everyone is ultimately responsible for themselves. I treat the janitor with the same respect as my collaborative docs- I don’t hold myself on high against anyone else. 

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32 minutes ago, deltawave said:

Out of my cohort of ~25 almost everyone has a job already; in multiple states we have alumni. So, yes, while the market may be tough in some areas it is not in others. I have an anecdote for you and you have one for me. Neither prove anything- other than the outlook for the career is apparently numero uno with explosive growth into the next decade. 
 

We all our conceive own perspective, for we all have different experiences. I don’t assume the collective of my colleagues are “lazy bastards” and I never said that they were. Some people find solutions instead of complain- that’s a desired quality in many- if that insinuates everyone else is a lazy bastard then perhaps you’re quick to emotion. Re-read what I said. If you take offense to it then, well, I’ll buy you a drink and try to help you out. 
 

Don’t come at me like I’m claiming to be holier than thou. I’m not. I worked my ass off to get where I am. That makes me suitable for someone, if not for you. While doing so I have always given to my colleagues any available lead I can, advice I could lend, or suggestions to help them out. I understand people are struggling, but I maintain the premise that to overcome adversity you must be a problem solver. This is a team game, but everyone is ultimately responsible for themselves. I treat the janitor with the same respect as my collaborative docs- I don’t hold myself on high against anyone else. 

Not quick to emotion, just slightly annoyed by your lack of awareness, empathy, ignorance, and arrogance: which ultimately has partially contributed to the slump in our profession you seem to not believe. I still find your original post derogatory to those whom might have done the same thing you did, yet had a different experience. I read it again, still got the same erk. Frankly something I’d expect to see on the huddle. I do appreciate the drink offer, but the passive aggressive nature of it in general, once again, is irritating. 

Edited by ANESMCR
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8 minutes ago, ANESMCR said:

Not quick to emotion, just slightly annoyed by your lack of awareness, empathy, ignorance, and arrogance: which ultimately has partially contributed to the slump in our profession you seem to not believe. I still find your original post derogatory to those whom might have done the same thing you did, yet had a different experience. I read it again, still got the same erk. Frankly something I’d expect to see on the huddle. I do appreciate the drink offer, but the passive aggressive nature of it in general, once again, is irritating. 

Put your big boy/girl/unisex pants on. Let’s get a beer. We’re on the same side. There’s nothing passive aggressive about any of it. We don’t have to agree, yet I still respect your opinion.
 

On an aside, I don’t do huddle. 

Edited by deltawave
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19 hours ago, deltawave said:

Don’t come at me like I’m claiming to be holier than thou.

You'll find that it really rustles some people's jimmies around here when they are confronted with an alternate worldview. They're good folks, nothing personal. 

There will always be regional and specialty variation in job availability. And yes, people who work harder will make things happen for themselves in general. 

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1 hour ago, CJAadmission said:

You'll find that it really rustles some people's jimmies around here when they are confronted with an alternate worldview. They're good folks, nothing personal. 

There will always be regional and specialty variation in job availability. And yes, people who work harder will make things happen for themselves in general. 

Oh geez. It’s like you smell a disagreement and come running like a hyena on a dead carcass. You must be especially hungry after getting your cheeks clapped all day. I call it like it is. The PA job market is in a slump and we have nothing but headwind. I think it’s great we got #1. We’ll get the exposure. I just prefer to celebrate legislation rather than a rating. Disregarding reality seems foolish. Scenario: I’ve seen both sides, the above has only seen one. Who has the alternate worldview? 

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On 1/14/2021 at 4:40 AM, deltawave said:

Because they refuse to look outside of their top desired specialty?

Because they refuse to move for a position?

From those I have spoken with both personally and online these are BY FAR the top two reasons.  Obviously over the last 10 months COVID has played a significant role as well, but in the past it was lack of flexibility by the candidates.

 

On 1/14/2021 at 1:30 PM, Hope2PA said:

All the while, we as a country are struggling with nurse and teacher shortage.

Can't comment on nursing as I've never been one, and have no interest in being one.  But, having been a teacher, we are having a teacher shortage because it has a ~$35-40k starting salary requiring at minimum a bachelors degree and every day is straight abuse from students, parents, and admin.  We think we have it bad in medicine...teachers laugh at us complaining like they should (this is obvious sarcasm).

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I think the #1 means that PA's have a good job situation relative to how all of the other careers are going right now with COVID, not that the job is amazing every second in absolute terms.  I would way rather be dealing with the PA job market right now than, say, work in the restaurant industry.

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On 1/14/2021 at 1:40 AM, deltawave said:

Because they fail to network appropriately? 

Because they refuse to look outside of their top desired specialty?

Because they refuse to move for a position?

Because COVID has changed the game for the time being? 

Because they lack the skills to sell themselves in an interview?

I agree with you on most of your thoughts- this one not so much, although. 

There is always room for advancing the profession with efforts such as OTP, title change, etc., yet the profession itself is still very rewarding on many fronts. 
 

I had a job before I even graduated and was licensed. Shoot- 2 jobs! Some people write their own ticket, some find something to blame when they face obstacle(s).

"Because they fail to network appropriately?"

Hard to say what this would be attributed to. Most of us in the new graduate population are millenials and have grown up with the technology of today. Some of us outright reject social media and can't use that to create networks. Some of us didn't get to network due to where we rotated in a small clinic or with no opportunity as COVID was barely letting us get through our clinical year. Some people got jobs because of their network prior to school, but that is a minority. 

"Because they refuse to look outside of their top desired specialty?"

This may be true. I was very hesitant to search outside of a position with an UC or ED. But the more I looked at positions the more I realized I was completely out of my league because everyone wanted experience. Didn't matter that I had prehospital experience prior to school, since the job is different. Then I gave a shot to other specialties because the little networking I was capable of during COVID came back to give me an opportunity. 

"Because they refuse to move for a position?"

If I were offered a good relocation stipend, then sure. But places are hesitant to give that right now (in my own experience), especially to a new grad who may or may not stay for very long on top of the uncertain numbers of patients for many specialties. Then consider that many of us do have partners that for better or worse, want to stay in their known area. I turned down a job in IM/cardiology from one of my preceptors because of the commute and travel requirements for the hospitals he covered. It wasn't worth my own time, and the traffic in LA isn't worth the headache. 

"Because COVID has changed the game for the time being?"

I personally believe that this is the largest hurdle that we face right now. In my area of CA EDs have reduced hours for all their PAs and while they have slowly been coming back up, there isn't any hiring for now. When these PAs then try to get a supplemental income they look to UCs to cover their expenses and time. That pushes me out of my preferred market. Then on top of it, the specialties that are mostly elective or do not have emergent conditions often aren't hiring much either. Once again, when people are reduced in their hours, as a new grad I am often fighting to make myself more valuable than an experienced PA from any field. 

My own story is one purely of luck. I did anesthesiology as my elective rotation just after being after to return from COVID blocking we students from almost every worksite, and not by choice. The neurosurgery preceptor I was scheduled to be with told my faculty that both hospitals he worked at closed to all students for the foreseeable future.

Well hey, I tried to make the best of it, and I loved the rotation. The doctor I was with is probably one of the most kind physicians I've ever been with. He took the time to teach me, he asked how I best learned, wanted to help me with the areas I struggled in (I'm embarrassed to say I sucked HARD with a glidescope) and went so far as to pay for all of my meals at the caf.

I was looking for jobs in November after graduating and before having taken my PANCE. I faced many of the obstacles lined out above. But this anesthesiologist reached out to me and said he has a urologist looking to hire a PA. Me in urology? No way. Not interested. But alas, I need to make some money and start getting experience. So I got the contact info for the urologist, went to see him at his office and was hired the same day. It has paid off greatly for me so far. Better than median starting pay, good benefits, a comfortable work environment and I get to prove to him that PAs can be worthwhile for his practice. 

Even at this office though, despite having planned on starting full time in February, the recent COVID surge cut his patient attendance by 25%. There just aren't enough people coming in for him to keep me FT yet. I'm stuck in the same boat as many others: back in the job market. I have a 21 hour work week with him and still need supplemental income. Not only because of the necessity to live, but because I have to get ahead of these massive loans demanding repayment soon. They cost $400 more than my rent each month on a standard repayment plan.  Now I am getting myself into a second job doing telemedicine consults for COVID (+) patients, or supervising testing sites for a company. 

My point is, this job market is utter crap and I got lucky and spent most of my off time trying to find a position at all. I'm not trying to argue with anyone the details on any of the above. But this is a very difficult time for most of us, despite having such good job prospects generally. 

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 Urology practice looking to add a PA. No previous urology experience required, will receive training on the job if needed. Outpatient office setting, assisting physicians but also managing your own patients. Hospital call coverage with physician back up. Full time position with benefits, 401k. Salary based on experience.

Job Types: Full-time, Contract

Pay: $34.00 - $49.00 per hour

 

 

$34/hour.......shameful.  RN's make more than this.  A LOT more.

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