Jump to content

We lost, NP's won...time to find a way to merge.


Recommended Posts

As our dumb ass national leadership fights over keeping the name "assistant', I am starting to reach out to NP programs in an effort to create an PA to NP bridge program.

So why would NP's do this?  Easy, by creating this bridge they would instantly add thousands of highly trained PA's who will now be called NP's into their field.  Collect dues and move the field forward.

Similar to a PA to DO scenario, we would do 12 months in the bridge program which at the end of 12 moths we would be awarded an NP with all the rights and privileges associated with the NP field.

-Independent practice in 28 states vs 0 for PA's, directly reimbursed by multiple insurances vs PA's requiring supervision.  

 

On and On and On.

 

 

For those old timers I like to compare us to "Beta" vs "VHS" video players.  Beta was better in every way....yet VHS won and Beta died.  Why?  Arrogance to name and shit ass marketing.  We are Beta.  I am hopeful that VHS will take us on before we are all left unemployed.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I am curious if the idea of PA-->NP Bridge programs would cause a fear response in Physicians. Which in order to combat they would try to push PA-->MD/DO programs (Real ones, not LECOM). It doesn't take a genius to realize that if PA-->NP bridge programs are even remotely non-irritating to accomplish than people will just do it and Physicians won't come back from that hit.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderator

I’m not interested in a bridge for one reason. No more top notch PA training and it will be the final nail in the coffin about who is lesser trained at face value.

some corrections as well:

no national leader is arguing about the title change. They are all for it. There are state leaders and many rank and file PAs against it. Doing this diplomatically is much more likely to have success than doing it authoritarian style, dragging everyone kicking and screaming. 
 

also, we have have severed the physician supervision requirements and liability in 2 states now.

that said, if the name change fails because of opposition, then yeah, I’ll take my RN license and walk.

  • Like 3
  • Upvote 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not a big fan of the proposed name change to MCP, but agree that the profession needs a huge boost in marketing.

Our education destroys what is provided by NP school, and we skim the surface. I understand the financial argument for a transition, but I think if a bridge program did occur, it would eventually result in an even greater proportion of midlevels/APPs/whatever we'd be called who are not ready for practice.

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Cideous said:

For those old timers I like to compare us to "Beta" vs "VHS" video players.  Beta was better in every way....yet VHS won and Beta died.

I picked Beta at the time. Who knew....

 

That said I'd be interested in hearing what their response is.  They don't have any real reason to work with us politically because we would just be an anchor on their efforts. But to absorb us? That might get some traction.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderator

I can see them allowing folks who are RN/PAs to do a bridge, but I doubt they would allow any non-RN PA to bridge to NP without getting an RN first. In the early days of the profession in CA they allowed RN/PAs to take a single class to bridge to FNP. A friend of mine did this to get rx privileges. He only used the NP until PAs got RX rights. 

I don't think PAs are going away. We are making slow progress, but we are in a much better place today than when I graduated from PA school 24 yrs ago. In 20 years I would hope that we are at the place the NPs are at today. 

  • Like 2
  • Upvote 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderator

bad training

NP started 90+ yr old patient on levoxyl (with afib not on anticoag) for a tsh of 6 and normal T-4 (like dead middle of the road normal)

 

low and behold a month later ends up in the hospital with issues - unlikely directly related to meds but they want to simplify the med management - easy stop taking the totally unneeded thyroid med.....  geez

and yet this NP is independent and I am not...... WTH

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderator
50 minutes ago, jennelise said:

Out of curiosity, what types of classes would a PA have to take in the hypothetical bridge program?  Would it be classroom learning or clinical?  
 

just as a note—I’m not against this or for this. I’m just not sure how a PA “learns” to be a nurse. 

a crap load of irrelevant "nursing theory" junk

  • Upvote 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, sas5814 said:

I picked Beta at the time. Who knew....

 

That said I'd be interested in hearing what their response is.  They don't have any real reason to work with us politically because we would just be an anchor on their efforts. But to absorb us? That might get some traction.

Of course you did Scott...Beta was better....and yet it died.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, jennelise said:

Out of curiosity, what types of classes would a PA have to take in the hypothetical bridge program?  Would it be classroom learning or clinical?  
 

just as a note—I’m not against this or for this. I’m just not sure how a PA “learns” to be a nurse. 

The bridge would include a condensed RN program which would also include an NP degree.  Duo as it were and on the day you graduated you could practice independently in 28 F'ing states....just think about that for a minute. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, EMEDPA said:

I don't think PAs are going away. We are making slow progress, but we are in a much better place today than when I graduated from PA school 24 yrs ago. In 20 years I would hope that we are at the place the NPs are at today. 

 

EMEDPA is a god like figure on these boards and he should be.  I love reading his posts and have the absolute highest respect for him.  But, I would respectfully disagree with this post.

-PA's are going away...new grads are having a hell of a time finding jobs and that is the very definition of "going away".

-Saying we are in a much better place then when you graduated school, while technically true....misses the point.  We older PA's are in a better spot (we are licensed, have DEA's, don't need onsite supervision etc) is all true, but again misses the point of those that follow us and simply can NOT find a job.

-In 20 years you hope that we are in the place NP's are in today?  Brother, we will not exist in 20 years if NP's continue to steamroll us.  PA's getting out with $100k in debt and no ability to find a job?  That creates a "dead man walking" profession.

 

I say all these things respectfully to EMEPA.

  • Upvote 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Cideous said:

The bridge would include a condensed RN program which would also include an NP degree.  Duo as it were and on the day you graduated you could practice independently in 28 F'ing states....just think about that for a minute. 

Vanderbilt, Boston college have a 2 year combined RN/NP program for non-nurses. I looked into going that route before PA school but decided to stay in my home state instead. I hope this won't be the biggest regret of my career

  • Sad 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I have too much pride to bow towards a nursing degree after what I went through getting into PA schools and getting through the stresses in emergency medicine as a new PA graduate. I can't erase those memories or have them transferred easily into another profession for purposes of getting off a sinking ship. 

We're currently the high-yield, ugly step-sibling of physicians and the higher-ups know our value. I certainly wouldn't want to carry the same moniker under nurses. I have two very young children to support + wife + four aging parents but I'd try hard to find another way before I go down this route. 

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

For those who missed the announcement the Ohio PA society is joining forces with the NPs to eliminate supervision requirements. There has been a lot of discussion about something like this for years and I hope it works out well.

The physicians have forever and a day lumped us all together despite our differences and protests to the contrary. I have always said if you are going to accuse me of something I might as well be guilty.

I know there is a history of the nurses screwing us legislatively. Most of those events happened when we were working independently but towards the same goal. This time they are actively collaborating as a single unit. I am cautiously optimistic and hope it will create a precedent where we can use our combined political powers to advance our profession.

  • Like 4
  • Upvote 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

With all the hate rhetoric placed aside, it is astoundingly and profoundly true that the NP is the most accepted APC in the land and has all of the venues that PAs have been searching for. I think Cideous is correct in his aspirations and I do not believe in dedication to a moniker as much as I do, the opportunity to render healthcare with reimbursement and unimpeded freedom.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I too have that pride that I would never go into nursing to become an NP...but after many states declared FPA for NPs, I likely have to swallow my pride and jump ship.

Unfortunately my pride just can’t pay bills and provide the needs for me and my family in the future once PA jobs are all replaced by NPs..

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to the Physician Assistant Forum! This website uses cookies to ensure you get the best experience on our website. Learn More