Title investigation report at HOD 2020

[Cideous]

25 minutes ago, PACali said:

Yup, 100% agree. I already see people in social media saying MCP is ambiguous and cheap knock off of Nurse Practitioner. Some people still prefer associate. We will have see if AAPA is willing to take that big step. I hope they didn't spent one million dollar for a title change study just to do nothing or still change it to associate.

They would have all out civil war at that point if they ignore the recommendation and go with "Associate".

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

27 minutes ago, Cideous said:

They would have all out civil war at that point if they ignore the recommendation and go with "Associate".

A war I won't be apart of. I'll be dusting off my RN license and getting an NP. Getting physician out of my title one way or another. 

[Hope2PA]

44 minutes ago, PACali said:

Yup, 100% agree. I already see people in social media saying MCP is ambiguous and cheap knock off of Nurse Practitioner. Some people still prefer associate. We will have see if AAPA is willing to take that big step. I hope they didn't spent one million dollar for a title change study just to do nothing or still change it to associate.

AAPA hired and paid a professional group of marketing/branding experts to determine what would be the best for PA future. Kind of similar to a patient coming to you for best treatment of their health problem. As a medical provider, I’d imagine, it kind of pisses you off when  you give them treatment plan and then they say no, you may be the expert, but I don’t like your idea so I will take my chances with what I think is best. There are experts in all areas for a reason. God help me if I don’t listen to my expert plumber. I am a fan of  duct tape, but it will not be good for the long term to fix of a a rusted failing pipe. Problem is so many of us do not want to listen to experts.

[CAdamsPAC]

On 11/20/2020 at 12:41 PM, LT_Oneal_PAC said:

I'm watching. It is still ongoing. 2 hours of info is being provided.

Long story short:

Tons of research was done. They surveyed PAs, students, patients, physicians, employers (multinational, regional, rural), federal agencies, commercials insurance, and so much more. They talk about how to implement it, the challenges, the costs.

When given the multiple choice definition of a PA, only a quarter of physicians, patients, and employer got it right. Only 75% of PAs and students got it right. When given the the actual definition 80% of physicians, patients, and employers agreed with it.

They were charged with a branding campaign. Title change is just one component of that. They went a lot into how to brand ourselves.

The title survey:

PAs and student most accepted physician associate.

SURPRISINGLY! Medical Care Practitioner did better with physicians, patients, and employers.

The overall recommendation: Medical Care Practitioner.

ETA: this is not policy. The constituent organizations need to discuss and will go forward afterwards with discussions at next HOD meeting in May.

From the outside looking in I must ask ; So, I am soon to hold the moniker of " Medical Care Practitioner " Certified Emeritus?

Edited November 24, 2020 by CAdamsPAC

[iconic]

33 minutes ago, LT_Oneal_PAC said:

A war I won't be apart of. I'll be dusting off my RN license and getting an NP. Getting physician out of my title one way or another. 

Tbh I would have gone to get that NP if I was an RN already. It just seems like we are trying to accomplish what NPs have already done a long time ago (name that patients understand, plus ever expanding autonomy). We are not even pushing for the same autonomy that they already have. 

Edited November 24, 2020 by iconic

[GapLustrum]

1 hour ago, Hope2PA said:

AAPA hired and paid a professional group of marketing/branding experts to determine what would be the best for PA future. Kind of similar to a patient coming to you for best treatment of their health problem. As a medical provider, I’d imagine, it kind of pisses you off when  you give them treatment plan and then they say no, you may be the expert, but I don’t like your idea so I will take my chances with what I think is best. There are experts in all areas for a reason. God help me if I don’t listen to my expert plumber. I am a fan of  duct tape, but it will not be good for the long term to fix of a a rusted failing pipe. Problem is so many of us do not want to listen to experts.

My favorite is when these people claim they're just blowing steam. WPP is the largest market research and advertising company in the world. Their annual revenue is $17.5 billion. Our $1.5 million is 0.00005 of one year of revenue. We aren't making a scratch in their bottom line and they aren't risking their reputation for a few pennies. They know what they're talking about and no your "hunch" isn't a better guide.

[thinkertdm]

I’m a little late to the table, but was this name change through AAPA, who I have no affiliation with? I don’t remember any questionnaires  or any way to access these questions.  
 

No one asked for my opinion, but here it is.  “Medical care practitioner” is as generic and forgettable as names come.  I think it’s a bullshit title to be slapped on a profession with such a wonderful history.  
Today, I’m going to go to the “food growing person” to get some vegetables, and maybe the “meat chopping professional “ to get some burgers.  Then on to the “hair cutting person” for a haircut.  
 

Is this outfit the same one that gave Nike the swoosh and “just do it”?  Or the Amazon smile “a to z”?  Or rebranded domino’s pizza to just dominos?  If someone gave them a million dollars for “brown liquid with fizzy bubbles” you can bet they’d be going back to the drawing board.  
 

[GapLustrum]

51 minutes ago, thinkertdm said:

I’m a little late to the table, but was this name change through AAPA, who I have no affiliation with? I don’t remember any questionnaires  or any way to access these questions.  
 

No one asked for my opinion, but here it is.  “Medical care practitioner” is as generic and forgettable as names come.  I think it’s a bullshit title to be slapped on a profession with such a wonderful history.  
Today, I’m going to go to the “food growing person” to get some vegetables, and maybe the “meat chopping professional “ to get some burgers.  Then on to the “hair cutting person” for a haircut.  
 

Is this outfit the same one that gave Nike the swoosh and “just do it”?  Or the Amazon smile “a to z”?  Or rebranded domino’s pizza to just dominos?  If someone gave them a million dollars for “brown liquid with fizzy bubbles” you can bet they’d be going back to the drawing board.  
 

Farmer, butcher, and barber don't have the majority of the public not understanding their role, PAs do. Generic is better than wrong. Being assumed to be assistants has real world costs to our profession that far exceed $1 million (wouldn't surprise me if the lost income, independence, and malpractice due to being thought of as assistants was in the hundreds of millions tbh).

Despite decades of trying to inform people about our profession, the majority still think we are less capable than we are because our name implies we are just Assistants to Physicians. We can argue the apostrophe s all we want, but you are fighting an uphill battle when your introduction gives the wrong first impression. The simple fact is people are stubborn and it's hard to change their minds.

Edited November 24, 2020 by GapLustrum

[PractitionerAwesome]

1 hour ago, thinkertdm said:

I’m a little late to the table, but was this name change through AAPA, who I have no affiliation with? I don’t remember any questionnaires  or any way to access these questions.  
 

No one asked for my opinion, but here it is.  “Medical care practitioner” is as generic and forgettable as names come.  I think it’s a bullshit title to be slapped on a profession with such a wonderful history.  
Today, I’m going to go to the “food growing person” to get some vegetables, and maybe the “meat chopping professional “ to get some burgers.  Then on to the “hair cutting person” for a haircut.  
 

Is this outfit the same one that gave Nike the swoosh and “just do it”?  Or the Amazon smile “a to z”?  Or rebranded domino’s pizza to just dominos?  If someone gave them a million dollars for “brown liquid with fizzy bubbles” you can bet they’d be going back to the drawing board.  
 

There's nothing less vague about "Physician Assistant" other than we're familiar with it. It's just as generic and forgettable, we've just heard it thousands of times so it seems specific. If you were hearing "Medical Doctor" for the first time that would sound generic and forgettable. If you were hearing "Nurse Practitioner" for the first time that would sound generic and forgettable. The more you link the words "Medical Care Practitioner" with this profession the less vague those words will sound.

Edited November 24, 2020 by scotshy

[ventana]

14 hours ago, LT_Oneal_PAC said:

A war I won't be apart of. I'll be dusting off my RN license and getting an NP. Getting physician out of my title one way or another. 

hollllllly crud - If I had RN I would be an DNP right now......

yup it is fluffy, and means less then PA - but I would get out from this silly dependent status....

[GapLustrum]

1 hour ago, ventana said:

hollllllly crud - If I had RN I would be an DNP right now......

yup it is fluffy, and means less then PA - but I would get out from this silly dependent status....

With that said, we appreciate you sticking in the trenches and fighting the good fight with us, LT_Oneal_PAC. I still think there's hope for brighter days ahead.

[MediMike]

3 hours ago, thinkertdm said:

I’m a little late to the table, but was this name change through AAPA, who I have no affiliation with? I don’t remember any questionnaires  or any way to access these questions.  
 

No one asked for my opinion, but here it is.  “Medical care practitioner” is as generic and forgettable as names come.  I think it’s a bullshit title to be slapped on a profession with such a wonderful history.  
Today, I’m going to go to the “food growing person” to get some vegetables, and maybe the “meat chopping professional “ to get some burgers.  Then on to the “hair cutting person” for a haircut.  
 

Is this outfit the same one that gave Nike the swoosh and “just do it”?  Or the Amazon smile “a to z”?  Or rebranded domino’s pizza to just dominos?  If someone gave them a million dollars for “brown liquid with fizzy bubbles” you can bet they’d be going back to the drawing board.  
 

You're the one who voted for "praxician" aren't you?

[Cideous]

4 minutes ago, iconic said:

Tbh I would have gone to get that NP if I was an RN already. It just seems like we are trying to accomplish what NPs have already done a long time ago (name that patients understands, plus ever expanding autonomy). We are not even pushing for the same autonomy that they already have. 

It's true, but it all starts with the name.  If we don't change to MCP and keep "Assistant" or "Associate" then nothing will change.  I personally believe the field is still a dead man walking.  I have been saying for 10 years on this board that it's over when we lose California....and we just lost California (and Florida just to add insult to injury).

[Yasuo]

I may have an unpopular opinion among the people on these forums or may be one of the silent ones, but I actually don't feel comfortable being known as a "Medical Care Practitioner." I feel like patients will just associate us with nurses and be asked many times, "So are you like a Nurse Practitioner?" 

I feel like the people in the United States are getting used to the term "PA". I like having "Physician" in my title, because it reminds me that I was taught medicine through the same model as Physicians, not nurses. Changing our names to "Physician Associate" may still not feel the best, but it is hands down better than "Assistant" in my opinion. 

The word "Associate" is defined as: a partner or colleague in business or at work. I feel okay being considered a partner or colleague of the fellow Physicians I work with. It makes sense to me. And we still retain the famous initials "PA" that is becoming more and more common knowledge in our society.

TLDR: MCP would just confuse the heck out of people. And associate us with nurses. 

Edited November 26, 2020 by Yasuo
EDIT: I was naïve at first. I agree, MCP is definitely better!

[Cideous]

9 minutes ago, Yasuo said:

I may have an unpopular opinion among the people on these forums or may be one of the silent ones, but I actually don't feel comfortable being known as a "Medical Care Practitioner." I feel like patients will just associate us with nurses and be asked many times, "So are you like a Nurse Practitioner?" 

I feel like the people in the United States are getting used to the term "PA". I like having "Physician" in my title, because it reminds me that I was taught medicine through the same model as Physicians, not nurses. Changing our names to "Physician Associate" may still not feel the best, but it is hands down better than "Assistant" in my opinion. 

The word "Associate" is defined as: a partner or colleague in business or at work. I feel okay being considered a partner or colleague of the fellow Physicians I work with. It makes sense to me. And we still retain the famous initials "PA" that is becoming more and more common knowledge in our society.

TLDR: MCP would just confuse the heck out of people. And associate us with nurses. 

 

 

 

Just no...

 

[Yasuo]

On 11/24/2020 at 8:50 PM, Cideous said:

 

Just no...

 

You're the first person I have seen use the Walmart analogy. Does everyone else here also view or relate the word "Associate" to that? "Physician" Associate sounds way better than "Walmart" Associate... lol. We don't even work at Walmarts!

Edited November 26, 2020 by Yasuo
EDIT: I was naïve at first. I agree, MCP is definitely better!

[GapLustrum]

45 minutes ago, Yasuo said:

I may have an unpopular opinion among the people on these forums or may be one of the silent ones, but I actually don't feel comfortable being known as a "Medical Care Practitioner." I feel like patients will just associate us with nurses and be asked many times, "So are you like a Nurse Practitioner?" 

I feel like the people in the United States are getting used to the term "PA". I like having "Physician" in my title, because it reminds me that I was taught medicine through the same model as Physicians, not nurses. Changing our names to "Physician Associate" may still not feel the best, but it is hands down better than "Assistant" in my opinion. 

The word "Associate" is defined as: a partner or colleague in business or at work. I feel okay being considered a partner or colleague of the fellow Physicians I work with. It makes sense to me. And we still retain the famous initials "PA" that is becoming more and more common knowledge in our society.

TLDR: MCP would just confuse the heck out of people. And associate us with nurses. 

People are just gonna keep calling us Physician Assistants if we still go by PA. It doesn't signal any change. 

Honestly a Nurse Practitioner is the closest thing to our job, so if patients are gonna confuse us with anyone, that's better than confusing us with a Medical Assistant or Medical Student.

Physician Associate only makes sense to PAs and PA students. No patient would understand we're trained in a model similar to Physicians because of that. Physicians have said pretty clearly they don't want us to be called Physician Associates. Why not just let them have the Physician name for themselves and avoid the rustled jimmies?

Edited November 25, 2020 by GapLustrum

[Yasuo]

On 11/24/2020 at 9:25 PM, GapLustrum said:

People are just gonna keep calling us Physician Assistants if we still go by PA. It doesn't signal any change. 

Honestly a Nurse Practitioner is the closest thing to our job, so if patients are gonna confuse us with anyone, that's better than confusing us with a Medical Assistant or Medical Student.

Physician Associate only makes sense to PAs and PA students. No patient would understand we're trained in a model similar to Physicians because of that. Physicians have said pretty clearly they don't want us to be called Physician Associates. Why not just let them have the Physician name for themselves and avoid the rustled jimmies?

Initially yeah, but in time, people will start saying Physician Associate more. The point is that we retain our identity, which we have created over the past 50 years. Not start all over with MCP. The patients who know us, are aware of what we are capable of. Because we regularly diagnose & treat them. For many of them, we are even their PCP. 

What we care about are the people who don't know about the PA profession. First impression is important and we want to stop them from reading Physician "Assistant" because that is misleading. 

PA's are actually hot right now. Many young high school/college students are gearing towards in becoming a PA. It has become a viable career option. It was ranked top 3 jobs in the U.S. with a 36% job outlook over the next few years. 

If I had to guess, it's the elderly and rural population that mostly don't know what a "PA" is. Because it's still a fairly new, but growing profession.

Physicians, NPs, and PAs are businesses at the end of the day. We will continuously fight for our own and our jobs. Obviously doctors don't like the title PA, because it has "Physician" in it. It's a threat to their profession. But that is the identity we have created over the last 50 years. That we are trained in the same education model as doctors and can aid Physicians by lessening their workload in multiple specialties. To meet the demand of doctor shortages. This is the key difference between us and the NP's. 

If we change to MCP, that is literally starting all over. And having to re-educate the public of who we are and what we are capable of, causing confusion along the process. That is not progressive change. 

Edited November 26, 2020 by Yasuo
EDIT: I was naïve at first. I agree, MCP is definitely better!

[CAdamsPAC]

1 hour ago, Yasuo said:

You're the first person I have seen use the Walmart analogy. Does everyone else here also view or relate the word "Associate" to that? "Physician" Associate sounds way better than "Walmart" Associate... lol. We don't even work at Walmarts!

I worked at Yale-New Haven Hospital and held the title Physician Associate for 18 years! In order to be labeled this I had to be a graduate of an accredited Physician Assistant program and hold a certificate from the National Commission on Certification of Physician Assistants, plus have a valid CT Physician Assistant license!  Words not deeds here.

[EMEDPA]

I remember this: 

growing up and through high school people drove Datsuns. I learned to drive on a 72. Now no one under 40 knows what a datsun is. Nissan 300 ZX. Sure. Datsun 280 zx turbo(great car)? Nope, folks don't have a clue. It has only been 36 years and they elevated their brand from economy car to high end sports car. Infinity is the next step(those are souped up luxury nissans for those who don't know, much like honda to acura and toyota to lexus. 

My point being this: change takes time. PA to MCP makes sense for a number of reasons, but it might be 10+ years before it enters the common language. Given that many folks still don't know what a PA is, I am not too worried that it will confuse people. The ones who need to know will figure it out quickly. 

[MediMike]

I've said it before and will say it again.

I'm not a physician.

I'm not an assistant.

I'm not an associate.

Firefighters fight fires. Tree trimmers trim trees. Sailors sail things.

I practice medicine.

If it lumps us in with NPs I don't particularly care. They've done such an amazing job with legislation and PR I'm not even mad. And as much as we tout our training model I'm not seeing a load of dead and/or dying patients outside of any NP's clinics so I don't know what to tell you.

[Malik144]

Also when you really think about it “Physician Associate”... Nurses associate with Physician all the time. I mean it would just turn into another debate and million dollar survey for next gen of PA’s, let’s give em something different to focus on.

[Yasuo]

22 hours ago, MediMike said:

I've said it before and will say it again.

I'm not a physician.

I'm not an assistant.

I'm not an associate.

Firefighters fight fires. Tree trimmers trim trees. Sailors sail things.

I practice medicine.

If it lumps us in with NPs I don't particularly care. They've done such an amazing job with legislation and PR I'm not even mad. And as much as we tout our training model I'm not seeing a load of dead and/or dying patients outside of any NP's clinics so I don't know what to tell you.

May as well merge with the NPs at this point then with that mental approach. Like what is unique about our profession then? What is even the point of our profession? Why not just be part of one entity if we are literally the same as NP’s in your eyes? The way the PA profession is headed makes no logical sense. And I am worried. 

 

 

Edited November 26, 2020 by Yasuo
EDIT: I was naïve at first. I agree, MCP is definitely better!

[MediMike]

31 minutes ago, Yasuo said:

May as well merge with the NPs at this point then with that mental approach. Like what is unique about our profession then? What is even the point of our profession? Why not just be part of one entity if we are literally the same as NP’s in your eyes? The way the PA profession is headed makes no logical sense. And I am worried. 

 

At no I point did I say that we are the same. Going to assume that your use of the word "literally" was more hyperbolic than anything else.

We have a unique, more intensive training model. Outside of that I don't see much difference in the utilization of the career fields. I also haven't seen any recorded differences in outcomes.

What I DO see is a significant difference in the public's awareness of NPs, as well as the faith/trust of legislative bodies.

The way the PA field is heading is obsolescence if we don't make changes, so yeah, I agree that it should be worrisome. Hanging on to something that has failed does us no good.

[Yasuo]

Okay guys, I just read the "Top 10 criticisms of Medical Care Practitioner" from the AAPA huddle. 

 

I agree. I'm an MCP believer now . However, I still think the NP's are going to basically steamroll over our profession. From a business standpoint, it's more logical to hire an independent NP vs PA/MCP (who require a supervising physician). One salary vs two. 

Kind of funny how the profession with the "more intensive training model" can't practice independently. 

Edited November 26, 2020 by Yasuo
EDIT: I was naïve at first. I agree, MCP is definitely better!