Jump to content

What the Trump administration has done to change the health care system


Recommended Posts

11 hours ago, ventana said:

you seem only interested in stirring the pot for the mere reason to create conflict

You seem to view everything posted through an overly emotional lens.  

Please directly quote (not paraphrasing through your overly emotional lens) what I have said that you feel is just stirring the pot.

 

11 hours ago, ventana said:

To state that the opioid crisis is part of infant mortality and then defend it shows a startling lack of understand of the timeline of both problems,

Great example of you viewing my posts through your overly emotional lens.  

I never said the opiod crisis (particularly the medical-system created opioid crisis) was a "part" of infant mortality.  If I have said that, then please refresh my memory of where I said that.  If I did, then

I said drug use is a part of it, and I specifically mentioned methamphetamines and cocaine which, apparently by all medical literature, is bad for an unborn baby (along with the mother).  

Now, I think we all would agree that there is an association between poverty and poor health outcomes, including infant mortality.  Right? 

And I think we would agree that there is an association between poverty and heavy drug use (well, except for those heavy drug users who have vice presidents as daddy's, they somehow seem to be able to maintain great health despite their heavy drug use! lol)

(And, just to ensure we don't have anyone putting words in my mouth like MedMike did, by "association" I mean the scientific/statistical term "association".  I am not saying "all poor people do drugs" like MedMike somehow inferred I said, nor am I saying "all poor people have poor health outcomes".)

So, using logic that was idealized almost three thousand years ago by the Greeks, if there is an association between poverty and poor health, and an association between poverty and heavy drug use, we can use "if A = B, and B = C, then A = C" and infer that there is AN ASSOCIATION BETWEEN HEAVY DRUG USE AND POOR HEALTH OUTCOMES INCLUDING INFANT MORTALITY.

This isn't rocket science, and is in every damn public health textbook out there.  
 

11 hours ago, ventana said:

general a very mean streak to try to through more blame at a population of people (those suffering with OUD) for something they clearly do not control.  

Where am I BLAMING people for things they clearly don't control.  If diabetes comes from sugar over-consumption burning out the pancreas, then it is the sugar over-consumption by the owner of the pancreas.  That doesn't mean they are bad people, and I don't propose we castigate them from society.  Same thing with health sequalea of heavy drug use.  It doesn't mean they are bad people.

So maybe I'm blaming people for things they should be blamed for.  I blame myself for wasting my time trying to explain to you that I'm neither trolling, being inflammatory, or any of the myriad of other things you incessantly blame me of doing.  It's called laying responsibility where it belongs, but that people who make bad decisions (like me, you, and everyone else) still deserve to be treated with respect.  

Except, it seems, those damn deplorables.  Those guys just need to hurry up and die, right Cideous?

 

11 hours ago, ventana said:

I just do not understand how you can continue to have such beliefs and statements that are so far from the proven mainstream......

Please, cut and past one belief/statement that are so far from the proven mainstream.  

 

8 hours ago, Cideous said:

They are a dieing breed and in the end, they will become a loud, screaming super-minority, but a minority they are becoming.

And those minorities have no rights in democracies.

 

  • Downvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 95
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Whether or not folks get into the country is a separate issue. As a matter of public health, once they are here you need to treat them to prevent the spread of disease to the rest of the population. 

Truthfully, I no longer know what to think of healthcare policy in the country. There is no middle ground news that will report the whole picture anymore to allow people to develop an informed opinion

this thread has run it's course 

Posted Images

18 minutes ago, Boatswain2PA said:

And I think we would agree that there is an association between poverty and heavy drug use (well, except for those heavy drug users who have vice presidents as daddy's, they somehow seem to be able to maintain great health despite their heavy drug use! lol)

Insults addiction. Says he didn’t insult addiction. Insults addiction again. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Cideous said:

I have a few family members like him, you can look up and see a perfectly blue sky...and they will swear it to be red.  I've learned not to engage, but to focus getting information to people on the fence or who are intellectually curious. Something most Trump cool aid drinkers are not.  They believe in what they want to regardless of facts and everything else is "fake news".  The good news is that Millennials and Gen Z's have cast aside those ideals and have for the most part sought out their own answers in politics, and that is why Republicans are doing everything in their power to suppress the vote.  They are scared crapless because they know they are a few years away from AZ becoming blue and Texas becoming purple, not to mention Georgia and North Carolina.  All they can do is try and install fear and loathing among their followers for those that may look different then them, worship different then them or vote different then them.

 

They are a dieing breed and in the end, they will become a loud, screaming super-minority, but a minority they are becoming.

"  I've learned not to engage, but to focus getting information to people on the fence or who are intellectually curious. Something most Trump cool aid drinkers are not.  They believe in what they want to regardless of facts and everything else is "fake news". " I wish that I knew these people and what's in their hearts and minds like you do, I would be so much smarter than I am!

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, ANESMCR said:

This has been completely debunked.

When you say "debunked" do you mean carried on major mainstream news services that generally dislike Trump?

https://apnews.com/article/louisville-kentucky-voting-2020-a9b7e2f33a94ec269b31f0e9e88b5d70

There is absolutely no way to know the extent of the problem. Another winning situation is that in my state, they have apparently mailed out 104% ballots compared to the number of registered votes. A little odd. 

  • Downvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, ventana said:

To state that the opioid crisis is part of infant mortality and then defend it shows a startling lack of understand of the timeline of both problems, a total lack of looking at data and history

I wanted to touch on this a little further.  

First, I"m not sure what you think I am "defending"...

Regarding the history of "opioid" crisis in America.

There really have been three opioid crisis in America. 

The first was in mid 1800s when we brought Chinese immigrants to the US, mostly to work on the railroads, and they brought heroin with them.  Opioid dens sprung up in Chinatowns in SF and other places, and then spread to the general population as people started traveling to/from California for the Gold Rushes.  An interesting byline to this was the Chinese emperors had outlawed opium several times, but the British East India company made so much money importing opium into China (from India) that Britain actually went to war with China, TWICE, just to keep the flow going.

The second was late 1960s-1970s when US soldiers found heroine in Vietnam and brought it back.  Frank Lucas (who was played by Denzel Washington in American Gangster) made Harlem the epicenter, but heroine addiction quickly spread and there has been an endemic level of heroine addiction in the US since.

The 3rd is the opioid prescription crisis, and it was created by government incompetence.  The government relied on data from Purdue Pharma showing that was safe and only minimally addictive, pushed medical providers to use pain as the "5th vital sign", gave guidance that patient's shouldn't have to suffer pain, and even tied provider reimbursement to how we treated our patient's pain.  Prescriptions for opioid pain medications skyrocketed, oxycontin became the 50th most prescribed drug in the US, and we made many people opioid addicts

It appears that the crisis is now moving more toward fentanyl and heroine, as since 2017 there have been more deaths from street fentanyl/heroine than oxycontin.

  • Downvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, CJAdmission said:

@mcclane - 

You downvoted this without comment. I'm not sure how to interpret this. You are thinking that we are obligated to provide free care to anyone who presents for care? 

Downvoted for low quality, racially charged, anecdote composed of hearsay and confabulation.

  • Upvote 1
  • Downvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, CJAdmission said:

@mcclane - 

You downvoted this without comment. 

Remember that annoying kid from 3rd grade who would put his fingers in his ear and repeatedly yell "You're a liar and I'm not!"

Well, he never grew up emotionally.  Now he posts here, but his posts are nothing but personal insults as he still has nothing to actually contribute to any conversation.  And he downvotes everything because he still thinks the important things in life are things like popularity.

Annoying as a gnat, but the moderators allow such behavior for some reason, so best to just ignore or him.

Edited by Boatswain2PA
  • Downvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey, mods.

Has any poster in the past 3 months demonstrated even 10% of the trolling and insulting committed by Boats? How many posts in this thread alone began with, line 1, an insult directed against another forum member? Your strategy of allowing Boats to "troll-close" threads when he feels that he has said his piece only results in his inevitable re-emergence and cyclical behavior.

  • Downvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

No one should have any question that Boat's is defended by the mod majority here. His best lines from this thread alone:

For some reason he gives me free rent in his vacuous head.

He is about as annoying as gnat.  Best to just ignore him.

Must be terrible to have such sensitive skin.  

Since you seem to lack the ability to understand anything I write, how about you just hit that ignore button so you don't have to read anything I post anymore, okay?  That way your highly-emotional state won't force you to get "enflamed" or "spit coffee".

You seem to view everything posted through an overly emotional lens.  

Great example of you viewing my posts through your overly emotional lens.  

Remember that annoying kid from 3rd grade who would put his fingers in his ear and repeatedly yell "You're a liar and I'm not!"

Well, he never grew up emotionally.  Now he posts here, but his posts are nothing but personal insults as he still has nothing to actually contribute to any conversation.  And he downvotes everything because he still thinks the important things in life are things like popularity.

Annoying as a gnat, but the moderators allow such behavior for some reason, so best to just ignore or him.

Edited by mcclane
  • Upvote 1
  • Downvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, mcclane said:

Downvoted for low quality, racially charged, anecdote composed of hearsay and confabulation.

I'm fine with "low quality." You are entitled to your opinion. Nothing racially charged about it. You might be one of these folks that subscribes to grievance studies and "critical race theory?"

Confabulation? You have big brass stones calling someone you have never met a liar. Unfortunately HIPAA precludes me from producing a chart, but if you can't find an example of someone in the country illegally gaming the healthcare system you must not work in an urban environment. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2018/02/26/how-american-citizens-finance-health-care-for-undocumented-immigrants/#8b2f48512c47

Do you think our healthcare system has the same obligations to citizens vs people who came here illegally?

  • Downvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, CJAdmission said:

Do you think our healthcare system has the same obligations to citizens vs people who came here illegally?

Strawman.

 

20 minutes ago, Boatswain2PA said:

No big brass stones required to do that on the internet. 

Places users on ignore, refers to them or something they posted on nearly every page, hmm.

  • Downvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, mcclane said:

Strawman.

You implied I'm a racist. I replied asking what your thoughts were on the expense of providing care to citizens vs non-citizens. (I think there must be some difference, or what is even the point of being a citizen?)

If that is a strawman, what exactly is the argument that you think I am distracting away from? I'll be happy to address it. 

  • Downvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, CJAdmission said:

You implied I'm a racist.

No, this is what I said, "Downvoted for low quality, racially charged, anecdote composed of hearsay and confabulation." The quality of your post was very poor, I downvoted it, and you bitched about not knowing why. I have explained. You have moved on to desperately trying to redefine the argument into a nice big broad us vs them issue, which I don't care about.

 
Edited by mcclane
  • Downvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

The president has made some relatively small changes via the executive branch that are improvements. 
 

He has not suddenly delivered price transparency but he has likely increased it. Price transparency by itself seems to be viewed by policy experts as heavily limited in practical terms of helping with costs. 
 

He repeatedly says his plan gives more people insurance that is both more generous and cheaper. He has not released this plan. He is also pursing the dismantling of the largest expansion in coverage since Medicare was passed without a plan to deal with the fallout.

When it comes to highlighting policy wins for this administration I will argue healthcare is not a place to focus. A more persuasive argument would be his record on decreasing both legal and immigration in a substantial way, depending on your point of view here.

 

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, mcclane said:

 You have moved on to desperately trying to redefine the argument into a nice big broad us vs them issue, which I don't care about.

Got it. I'm not desperate, but I will conclude you don't like to answer questions, so an attempt at understanding your point of view will be futile. Good day, sir. I'll leave you with some more strawmen:

https://www.jvascsurg.org/article/S0741-5214(06)01192-X/fulltext

From the article:

In 2005, Houston’s Ben Taub General Hospital spent $128 million to treat 57,000 uninsured undocumented aliens. Only $31 million was reimbursed through government and other sources.

This hospital ran a $100 million deficit caring for people that should not have been there. Who do you think gets gouged to make up the $100 million? Talk about healthcare expense. 

  • Upvote 1
  • Downvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, CJAdmission said:

When you say "debunked" do you mean carried on major mainstream news services that generally dislike Trump?

https://apnews.com/article/louisville-kentucky-voting-2020-a9b7e2f33a94ec269b31f0e9e88b5d70

There is absolutely no way to know the extent of the problem. Another winning situation is that in my state, they have apparently mailed out 104% ballots compared to the number of registered votes. A little odd. 

I’m not sure what you were trying to achieve with this article but I honestly read it as counterintuitive to your point. 

“There is absolutely no way to know the extent of the problem....”

I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again. Where does this leave me to respond? How do I prove a negative. Why should I have to? We all know this is logical fallacy, c’mon.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, turnedintoamartian said:

When it comes to highlighting policy wins for this administration I will argue healthcare is not a place to focus

This.

I think his position is to do everything he can to extract government intrusion in healthcare so patients and their providers can determine what is best.  Of course, that would require reducing what government spends on it, but that is not palatable to many who now depend on the government funding.  After all, once you have given something to someone, it's hard to take it back.

Price transparency is a part if this.  As the government funded healthcare system fails people (whether that's through Obamacare premiums/deductibles pricing people out, or poor quality), some people will move toward the more efficient cash options/concierge.  If hospitals et al are required to be transparent with what something will cost, it WILL drive down pricing for those cash payors, and give the government a data point with which to begin negotiations as well.

Edited by Boatswain2PA
Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, ANESMCR said:

“There is absolutely no way to know the extent of the problem....”

I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again. Where does this leave me to respond? How do I prove a negative. Why should I have to? We all know this is logical fallacy, c’mon.

There is no way to know the extent of the problem because it is pooh-poohed out of existence by a political party. "It can't possibly be happening, so there is no point in looking for it" right?

I could find you a couple dozen articles to the contrary. (I'll save you some typing - your response would be: "Well even so, the scale of the problem in those articles is so small, what difference does it make? What's a few hundred thousand votes.")

Trump committed a major-league stupid strategic blunder by giving the Post Office a ration of crap and talking about all kinds of budget cuts in a year when the election will mostly be by mail. Not exactly the work of a stable genius there. 

Edited by CJAdmission
  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • ventana locked and unlocked this topic
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to the Physician Assistant Forum! This website uses cookies to ensure you get the best experience on our website. Learn More