Vic0528 Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 Hi! I am trying to negotiate an offer with an Internal med private practice as a new grad and learning as I go! I tried citing stats from the 2019 AAPA salary report and was told they went by the MGMA compensation report. The report is very expensive but I managed to find the 2019 MGMA report with some googling which shows total compensation by regions (I live in Georgia). The total compensation is not very helpful and I'm not sure if they show any base salaries on the full report. Does anyone know if there Is any way to try to calculate what the average base salary alone might be? I was offered $82,500 (no bonus until 2nd year). The median on the 2019 AAPA report showed a base salary of $94K for IM PAs with 0-1 year of experience and the 2019 MGMA report showed $104,369 for total compensation for IM PAs. I should add I'd be on call every 3 nights and every 3rd wknd, PTO is awful (vacation and CME combined = 1 week after 6 mo) and they offer claims made malpractice without tail (any thoughts on that?). I was told none of the other PA's had tail coverage since they have been there for 15 years...They offer phone bill coverage, $1,200 CME, $1000 disability reimbursement, 401K match up to 4%, and cover licensing fees/professional society dues. They haven't hired a PA in 15 years (have a great retention rate) so it seems like they're a little out of the loop with these things. Here's the link for the 2019 MGMA total compensation report: https://imgur.com/gallery/ZQo6aKo Any thoughts are appreciated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas5814 Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 I can't speak to the salary because there is such a wide variation in region, specialty, experience etc but that still sounds low. As a new grad I think you could accept a lower salary with a guarantee of a specific raise or raises at specific time points in the future. It shows you are flexible but expect to be rewarded as your value to the practice increases. Also that is a lot of call for that salary. I'd expect a specific compensation for days on call and how much would depend on whether it was phone call, hospital call, or the possibility of being called in from somewhere. I'm always skeptical of bonuses unless the specifics of how the money is being counted and by whom is spelled out very clearly. I'd also reserve the right for an outside audit at your expense if there is a disagreement about the numbers. I can tell you many stories of office managers, who are sometimes first degree relatives of the physicians, tilting the numbers in favor of the practice. The PTO is the great stinking turd in the benefit package. The BARE minimum for PTO, particularly if it includes your CME time, is 3 weeks. My last job had 6 weeks PTO and 1 week CME at hire for everyone no matter their experience. Good luck. Let us know how it goes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic0528 Posted October 16, 2020 Author Share Posted October 16, 2020 32 minutes ago, sas5814 said: I can't speak to the salary because there is such a wide variation in region, specialty, experience etc but that still sounds low. As a new grad I think you could accept a lower salary with a guarantee of a specific raise or raises at specific time points in the future. It shows you are flexible but expect to be rewarded as your value to the practice increases. Also that is a lot of call for that salary. I'd expect a specific compensation for days on call and how much would depend on whether it was phone call, hospital call, or the possibility of being called in from somewhere. I'm always skeptical of bonuses unless the specifics of how the money is being counted and by whom is spelled out very clearly. I'd also reserve the right for an outside audit at your expense if there is a disagreement about the numbers. I can tell you many stories of office managers, who are sometimes first degree relatives of the physicians, tilting the numbers in favor of the practice. The PTO is the great stinking turd in the benefit package. The BARE minimum for PTO, particularly if it includes your CME time, is 3 weeks. My last job had 6 weeks PTO and 1 week CME at hire for everyone no matter their experience. Good luck. Let us know how it goes. Yep, very low and lots of call! The only reason I keep considering it is because the providers seem very eager to teach and are very approachable and the work environment seems great. I should definitely ask about how the productivity bonus would work for year 2. Woah 6 weeks PTO and 1 week CME is awesome. Thank you for the info! Any thoughts on the claims made malpractice without tail? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas5814 Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 4 hours ago, Vic0528 said: Yep, very low and lots of call! The only reason I keep considering it is because the providers seem very eager to teach and are very approachable and the work environment seems great. I should definitely ask about how the productivity bonus would work for year 2. Woah 6 weeks PTO and 1 week CME is awesome. Thank you for the info! Any thoughts on the claims made malpractice without tail? That is a deal breaker really. It doesn't matter how long anyone has been with the practice tail is a big deal. You have to have it when you leave. Claims made only protects you while you are on the policy. Depending on your state's malpractice laws you could be liable for every patient you have seen for years before you left the practice. If you have to buy your own it could be 10k or more. Now...having said all that having a great work environment is no small thing. It is my second biggest employment concern other than pay and benefits. Its a bit of a paradox. All the money in the world can't make up for a bad work environment. The best work environment can't make up for pay and benefits that don't give you the time and means to live. I have taken crappy jobs that paid very well and regretted it. I have taken great jobs that paid poorly and regretted it. It is about what is most important to you and finding the right balance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted October 17, 2020 Moderator Share Posted October 17, 2020 This is more historical now my local hospital system used to always quote this..... then the residency program got shut down and the only choice was to hire PA and NP Low and behold they could not hire enough with the salary they were offering, so they raised the rates (a lot - like 20%) and could fill the positions You are pretty much stuck, they have an ancho bias that they are not going to give up on till they are forced to, and one PA can not force that issue 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayamom Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 What did you decide? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic0528 Posted October 18, 2020 Author Share Posted October 18, 2020 On 10/16/2020 at 9:54 PM, sas5814 said: That is a deal breaker really. It doesn't matter how long anyone has been with the practice tail is a big deal. You have to have it when you leave. Claims made only protects you while you are on the policy. Depending on your state's malpractice laws you could be liable for every patient you have seen for years before you left the practice. If you have to buy your own it could be 10k or more. Now...having said all that having a great work environment is no small thing. It is my second biggest employment concern other than pay and benefits. Its a bit of a paradox. All the money in the world can't make up for a bad work environment. The best work environment can't make up for pay and benefits that don't give you the time and means to live. I have taken crappy jobs that paid very well and regretted it. I have taken great jobs that paid poorly and regretted it. It is about what is most important to you and finding the right balance. Yep, the malpractice policy scares me a little bit. I think I should definitely request tail coverage. She told me it would cost me about $6,500-$8,000. Yep, the great work environment and opportunity to learn a lot is what really makes me consider the position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic0528 Posted October 18, 2020 Author Share Posted October 18, 2020 On 10/17/2020 at 7:34 AM, ventana said: This is more historical now my local hospital system used to always quote this..... then the residency program got shut down and the only choice was to hire PA and NP Low and behold they could not hire enough with the salary they were offering, so they raised the rates (a lot - like 20%) and could fill the positions You are pretty much stuck, they have an ancho bias that they are not going to give up on till they are forced to, and one PA can not force that issue Yep, exactly. And there's no way for me to actually know if they're lowballing me since it's "total compensation" they're going off of which makes me very hesitant. I don't know how to tell them that the AAPA salary report is more accurate for PAs due to the larger sample sizes.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted October 19, 2020 Moderator Share Posted October 19, 2020 TOTAL compensation is load of crap they can not hire anyone with out the costs of hiring someone - it is just a ploy to make it sound like you are getting more.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic0528 Posted October 19, 2020 Author Share Posted October 19, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, ventana said: TOTAL compensation is load of crap they can not hire anyone with out the costs of hiring someone - it is just a ploy to make it sound like you are getting more.... YES! That's exactly what I was thinking. Theres's no way for me to find out just how much I'm being lowballed. Edit: a classmate of mine got an offer there a couple of months before me for $95K. She is married, has kids (so lots of responsibilities), and was a registered dietician for 15 years. But even then, I'm sure $82.5K is way too low even with the benefits factored in.. Edited October 19, 2020 by Vic0528 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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