physasst Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 I have only read the PA related threads.They are the lowest common denominator of willful PA ignorance. We are better than that. Much better. Agreed with that. That's why I stay away from the PA threads there. I enjoy the Topics in Healthcare, Public Medicine, and Research Scientist pages. I think most of them seem pretty civil and nice, at least from my perspective, comparatively speaking. I also agree with the difficulty in modding a political forum. On the forum I do moderate, I am the super mod, and I have 2 co-mods who ONLY moderate the political forum, and we rotate out. I've already told the admins that I am done after the election. With roughly 15-20 new threads daily, and a polarized general election season, the number of bad posts and PM's I get is ridiculous. That doesn't count the bad posts from all of the other forums....We encourage civil debate, and when it's the regulars, they know the rules and while they are good at skirting the line (IE; insulting someone without really insulting them) the problem generally tends to be the new posters. I'd like to be done now, as you can only mod the PO forum for so long, but I don't want to stick someone new in the supermod role right before the election, as I don't think that is a cool thing to do.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OpSite Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Personal thoughts on her opinions aside, I have reviewed her posts and found she hasn't been derogatory or inflammatory in any way other than her views are different and she expresses them with fervor, not viciously. Inaccurate and without evidence, but not malicious. Also, she has been far more active in clinical and helpful threads than just the political ones. So I say reinstate her. I whole-heartedly agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmj11 Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 I know that this can never happen here, but I wish we could have controversial discussions in a mature respectful way. I've been in many groups where we discuss and talk about the big questions of life including politics, religion, philosophy and etc. However, I know for many those issues are sewed closely to their limbic system and they can get nasty about it which ruins it for everyone. I have no clue who you are talking about and haven't been around enough to figure out the violations, but I say reinstate anyone who is respectful to others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemegroup Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 I am happy to have health related discussions here as long as they don't devolve into name calling or saying ANY given political party or public figure is 100% right and anyone who disagrees is an idiot. I agree with this post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAdamsPAC Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 In the spirit of full disclosure, I too was "banned forever" after speaking my mind and was brought back from exile due to the efforts of a friend from PAF. Heated presentation of one's position on any subject/thread without malice or rancor isn't a problem in my mind. Name calling and character assassination aren't productive behaviors. I do recalled be called incompetent while addressing the subject of name change for the profession, I didn't cry myself to sleep over it. Sticks and stones may break my bones........whips and chains excite me! In otherwords "lighten up Francis"! BTW it's your call, do whatever you think is the right thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted July 3, 2012 Author Moderator Share Posted July 3, 2012 Adams- I had nothing to do with your banning and was glad to see you back. even though we disagree on politics at times you have always argued your points without being overtly insulting or over the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohiovolffemtp Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 I'm not aware of the history concerning the political forums on this board. However, in the 2-3 years I've been a member I've found marilynpac's posts useful and informative. I request that she be reinstated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaston Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Frankly, I don't think you need a poll. The reality is that there are rules on this site. In your estimation, she broke those rules. You are a Super Moderator which therefore gives you the authority to make that judgement. If she has been warned then so be it. Regardless of what I think of her posts, it's not my call. Lots of people these days think that the internet is a place where you can say whatever you want without repercussion. They forget the fact that this site has a creator/owner that has established very specific rules that are clearly stated for all to read. If those that are in charge determine that you have broken the rules then you should experience the appropriate consequences. Do you have freedom of speech? Absolutely. You also have the freedom to reap the consequences of that speech if it breaks the rules as established by the owner of the site. It's no different than if you were a visitor in my home. People that visit will find out that we have a zero tolerance policy here regarding foul language. I'm the one that gets to decide what constitutes 'foul language' in my home. If you are informed then subsequently warned and you repeatedly break that policy you will be asked to leave and probably not invited back unless you agree to follow the rules. Many forums operate in this same manner. Follow the rules then you should be fine. It's very simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator rev ronin Posted July 3, 2012 Administrator Share Posted July 3, 2012 I know that this can never happen here, but I wish we could have controversial discussions in a mature respectful way. My personal view is that one should only have theological debates with those with whom you share "table fellowship"--you'd invite them to your house for a meal, or vice versa. Debates involving people with whom one has no preexisting relationship risk focusing on the differences, rather than the commonalities, which is why I don't talk religion--or politics--on the Internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted July 3, 2012 Author Moderator Share Posted July 3, 2012 My personal view is that one should only have theological debates with those with whom you share "table fellowship"--you'd invite them to your house for a meal, or vice versa. Debates involving people with whom one has no preexisting relationship risk focusing on the differences, rather than the commonalities, which is why I don't talk religion--or politics--on the Internet. well spoken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fyrelight74 Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 To quote Rodney King, "Can't we all just get along?" I say as long as we can speak in a professional manner, we should be able to discuss any relevant topic. My vote is to let her back in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAdamsPAC Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Adams- I had nothing to do with your banning and was glad to see you back. even though we disagree on politics at times you have always argued your points without being overtly insulting or over the top. I didn't mean to infer that you were party to the event. I do think that those threads that deal with race, religion or politics need a "Enter at Your Own Risk" warning in "Rant & Sarcasm" font boldly displayed! Far too many folks are willingly running barefoot on 60 grit sandpaper and then whining about scrapes and painful feet! Pull up you big boy & big girl panties and take the hit if you jump into the afray.I hope some of these offended PAs don't ever spend any OR time with some of the surgical attendings I've worked with!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JMPA Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 If the political discussion has to do with medicine or the PA profession, then people should not be barred for discussing it. If those on here can't talk in a respectful way to there peers, then they should not even be in the PA profession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmj11 Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 My personal view is that one should only have theological debates with those with whom you share "table fellowship"--you'd invite them to your house for a meal, or vice versa. Debates involving people with whom one has no preexisting relationship risk focusing on the differences, rather than the commonalities, which is why I don't talk religion--or politics--on the Internet. There is a national . . . actually I think international . . . club? I'm not sure what you call it, but is the Socrates Cafe. It meets here on our island once a month. You can find them in most cities. It is where a group of complete strangers, from all walks of life, come together to discuss complex ethical, moral, metaphysical questions. It is usually led by a philosophy professor. I've been to them and they are great. I've never seen anger, condescending attitudes as they all behave like adults. So it can be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fyrelight74 Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 I do think that those threads that deal with race, religion or politics need a "Enter at Your Own Risk" warning in "Rant & Sarcasm" font boldly displayed! Far too many folks are willingly running barefoot on 60 grit sandpaper and then whining about scrapes and painful feet! Pull up you big boy & big girl panties and take the hit if you jump into the afray.I hope some of these offended PAs don't ever spend any OR time with some of the surgical attendings I've worked with!!! I must say I belong to some religious boards, and they have a BEWARE section that says "You are not allowed to get offended here. Enter at your own risk. Just don't bring it to other parts of the forum." And you are allowed to post/say pretty much anything other than just pure hate (pro-Nazi stuff comes to mind). Perhaps that type of area would be helpful here as well. Topics relevant yet are "touchy" or involve red flags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joelseff Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 I say let her back in. I too can't recall a post of hers that was outright defamatory. She merely spoke her mind. I also thought that she contributed a lot to the other sections here and was ready to give her advice. I read the thread where she was banned and her last comment-the one I presume got her banned (unless it was edited afterwards) was not blatantly abrasive. There have been other posts here that I have read in the 4-5 years I have been on here that have been more offensive to me, yet they were allowed to be left on. There have been anti-Christian statements here that have been thrown around that I have found offensive. I used to get upset over it but realized we are all entitled to our opinions. We can still all be friends. :smile: Needless to say, I stopped posting on political/religious threads long ago. I mean we have enough ideology wars with the whole NP vs PA thing...:;;D: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RHC81 Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 My personal view is that one should only have theological debates with those with whom you share "table fellowship"--you'd invite them to your house for a meal, or vice versa. Debates involving people with whom one has no preexisting relationship risk focusing on the differences, rather than the commonalities, which is why I don't talk religion--or politics--on the Internet. I'm personally with Rev Ronin on this. I avoid political and religious debates on the Internet for this reason. As for the poll, I have most often seen a warning --> temp ban --> permanent ban for infractions on other boards. Or a "three strikes" rule - two warnings, then you're out on the third. I think this is fair, especially as we all presumably know the rules here. Personally, I would not like a political forum on this site. Obviously, medicine sometimes has political aspects to it (e.g., the recent SCOTUS decision), but I think an open forum for non-medical politics would only be divisive. Respectful conversations about the political aspects of medicine are challenging enough. This is going to be a very polarizing political season in the USA, and I doubt that the polarization could be kept off a political forum here. We are either colleagues or hopeful colleagues, in the case of us pre-PAs. I personally don't discuss my politics (or religious beliefs) at work, so I wouldn't want to discuss it with future colleagues either. I personally avoid SDN because of the general tension over there in many forums, and I'd hate to have that feeling here. That's just my two cents... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator rev ronin Posted July 4, 2012 Administrator Share Posted July 4, 2012 There is a national . . . actually I think international . . . club? I'm not sure what you call it, but is the Socrates Cafe. It meets here on our island once a month. You can find them in most cities. It is where a group of complete strangers, from all walks of life, come together to discuss complex ethical, moral, metaphysical questions. It is usually led by a philosophy professor. I've been to them and they are great. I've never seen anger, condescending attitudes as they all behave like adults. So it can be done. Ah. There are a couple of games (the board game Diplomacy, for instance) which I have been advised to play only with dear and lifelong friends or utter strangers, given that intrigue and betrayal are part of the mix. I can see how a self-selected debating society would be better at handling such controversies than a random internet forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 This IS NOT a political forum. Wanna talk politics... there are literally THOUSANDS of forums to go to... to do that. This is NOT the place for it. It NEVER starts or even ends well. I vote NO political threads on this forum. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for the "banning"... Wasn't she banned before for the same thing...?? If so, maybe she has a "impulse control disorder"... cause it doesn't seem as thought she can control herself. Permanent or temporary, I can't say... but they say the best predictor of future behavior is... yep... past behavior. Let her back... but as the election season heats up in a month or so... you will quickly know if you did the right thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted July 4, 2012 Author Moderator Share Posted July 4, 2012 Let her back... but as the election season heats up in a month or so... you will quickly know if you did the right thing. if she comes back it will be on probation..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
physasst Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Discussing politics can be informative online, if you have an open mind and are willing to actually debate issues. I've learned a ton..... I would also disagree with the post above saying that medicine and politics are only sometimes intertwined....I get an email update from our government affairs office every day (part of the Health Policy Center) and there are roughly 20-40 stories daily. For example, there is a new regulation coming out from the US Treasury that would prohibit bill collection in the ED... Simple fact is.....Medicine IS politics....they are the same, and to try and tiptoe around that fact is a silly idealism.... As far as SDN.....I would hardly classify it as a ragefest....I find it rather tame, and while things can get heated over there, it's pretty easy to turn it around when needed....Remember, you are all going to be working with these physicians.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andersenpa Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Discussing politics can be informative online, if you have an open mind and are willing to actually debate issues. I've learned a ton..... I would also disagree with the post above saying that medicine and politics are only sometimes intertwined....I get an email update from our government affairs office every day (part of the Health Policy Center) and there are roughly 20-40 stories daily. For example, there is a new regulation coming out from the US Treasury that would prohibit bill collection in the ED... Simple fact is.....Medicine IS politics....they are the same, and to try and tiptoe around that fact is a silly idealism.... As far as SDN.....I would hardly classify it as a ragefest....I find it rather tame, and while things can get heated over there, it's pretty easy to turn it around when needed....Remember, you are all going to be working with these physicians.... Looking outside that lens it's also easy to see that 1. Medicine is medicine. There are innumerable clinical and professional topics that can be discussed in detail without any political overtones. Just because medical topics are related to political themes doesn't make them mutually necessary to discuss. "Medicine is politics" is only your way of looking at things. The great majority of PAs aren't interested and don't care about most of what you find interesting. It helps to look outside yourself. 2. This is a private forum and the admin is free to decide what they want discussed and how. 3. It's simple math that most PAs will NOT be working with the docs/residents/students that populate the SDN. Whenever I go to the supermarket chances are I won't be running into any members of http://www.groceryclerkdiscussionfourm.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
physasst Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Looking outside that lens it's also easy to see that1. Medicine is medicine. There are innumerable clinical and professional topics that can be discussed in detail without any political overtones. Just because medical topics are related to political themes doesn't make them mutually necessary to discuss. "Medicine is politics" is only your way of looking at things. The great majority of PAs aren't interested and don't care about most of what you find interesting. It helps to look outside yourself. 2. This is a private forum and the admin is free to decide what they want discussed and how. 3. It's simple math that most PAs will NOT be working with the docs/residents/students that populate the SDN. Whenever I go to the supermarket chances are I won't be running into any members of www.groceryclerkdiscussionfourm.com 1. Agreed, I know that I am politically biased. For me, it's far, far more interesting than some boring clinical discussion. Some professional discussions can be intriguing... 2. Agreed completely....it's a private site... 3. Disagreed. 800,000 physicians (roughly), 90,000 PA's, so roughly a 1 in 10 chance of running into a physician of all types....think of your day and how many different physicians on different services in different specialties you interact with. I probably interact with 10-30 different physicians daily....The simple math is, that you as PA will interact with every type of physician in and throughout your career, often on a routine basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted July 4, 2012 Author Moderator Share Posted July 4, 2012 although the hardline sdn types probably won't be hiring pa's(or np's for that matter). to the best of my knowledge I have never met or worked with a doc who is on sdn. of course I could be wrong about that....for all I know the biggest !@#$% on sdn could be a doc I work with every day.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToppDog Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 The only nice thing about having a political forum was that all those heated discussions had a nice corner to stay in & be ignored by those of us who didn't want to see them almost always degrade into name calling, etc. I could understand why the forum owners wouldn't want to spend on the bandwidth for it. There are other forums to go to for that kind of thing. However, I agree that political topics & medical topics can be intertwined. I didn't see the posts, but I'm willing to bet that the recent SCOTUS decision on Obamacare was the start of it. I think those kind of discussions are relevant and even necessary to stay current with trends in medicine, as long as those participating stay civil & on topic. I won't vote specifically on her return, because 1. I didn't see the posts in question, & 2. because it sounds like it may have taken place in the professional PA forum, & I'm just a lowly pre-PA learning what I can from you guys :) I have enjoyed reading a bunch of her posts though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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